Treatment - swim needs help bad, a BAD adderall habbit...

[Rise against]

swim has been addicted for about a year now, and has been trying extremely hard to quit for a few months now. Swim's addiction got way out of control... he was taking up to 300mg a day, usually crushed and swallowed or snorted. The longest swim has gone without adderall has been 2 weeks. Swim is seriously thinking about going to addiction rehab, because he doesnt think it is possible to quit on his own. Nobody knows about swims addiction, he hasnt talked about it, and feels very guilty and like a loser... When swim tries to quit, it usually ends with him going on HEAVY binges days later. The last time swim binged he took way way way to much... swim has no idea how much he took, but he couldnt breath or see straight... he could only lay in bed and stair into space because if he tried to move he would black out. Swim is scared and Swim wants to live past the age of 30 without having heart problems, or a stroke. Swim wants to get his life back...

[DecoyPencil]

Sorry to hear about SWIY’s situation. To start, SWIM just wanted to say that he can sympathize as he went through several of the “binge, short abstinence, heavier binge” cycles with several forms of amphetamine. So SWIM recognizes the hopelessness these cycles bring and genuinely feels for SWIY. Hopefully SWIM can offer some insight that might be useful.

First, be honest with SWIYself about everything from why SWIY started using Adderall in the first place to why he uses it now, to why he wants to quit. This is a vital step that is overlooked VERY often. SWIM had several attempts to quit fail for this reason. Remember that if the reasons and motivations for quitting aren't based on truth, it almost guarantees failure. When one has established their reason for quitting it gives them something more important than the drug to cling to during the worst moments of abstinence. For example SWIM's reason was visual, he looked at the effect his abuse was having on his body. So while SWIM was going through the worst of the cravings, he would make a point to look in the mirror to remind himself of his motivation. SWIY offered a bit of insight into his reason already, and SWIM couldn’t say it better, “Swim wants to get his life back”. So when SWIY has cravings, he must always remember how badly he wants his life back.

Another very important point is accessibility. In order for someone to use heavy doses of any drug consistently or semi-consistently, it must be pretty accessible to them. This makes it way too easy to give in to cravings and the sources should be removed if possible. Easier said than done in many cases. Sometimes it is impractical to literally remove all sources, but even making it a severe pain in the ass to get Adderall would help. If SWIY has a prescription that is easily refilled every month it might not be a bad idea to involve SWIY’s prescriber. Inform them of SWIY’s intention to cut down on dosage each month or to eliminate it all together. If SWIY has any other sources, tell them that SWIY will be buying / taking less. If it’s a close friend, telling them the real reason (to kick an addiction) might help so they don’t offer it to SWIY anymore. If it is a “dealer” or potentially shady individual, it would be best to simply tell them that SWIY is done buying Adderall (mentioning addiction may lead to more pressure) and they’ll probably start selling it to someone else instead. That will help make it a real pain in the ass to obtain Adderall, now we’re talking!

Remember that knowledge is power. Use SWIY’s knowledge and research to formulate a plan. As with most drugs, there are different approaches to quitting and the one that is right for SWIY might be different than the one that works for other SWIMmers. Some people swear by a well planned taper, while it may be impractical for others. Since physical dependence isn’t a big factor with Adderall, some choose to go cold turkey. If SWIY chooses this method, it might be advisable to at least cut down the daily dose first so SWIY wouldn’t be going directly from 300mg/day to none. Whichever method SWIY chooses, it is always a good choice to involve a healthcare professional or addiction expert. However, many SWIMmers are able to quit on their own once armed with the proper knowledge. Know what to expect from the withdrawal, especially the lethargy and depression that often follow and tips to make it more bearable. Many controllable factors affects this. Supplements, other medications and various techniques can help make things MUCH easier. There is a lot of great info here about helpful supplements and quitting in general. And of course, SWIM is always more than happy to give any information he has. So if SWIY has specific questions or needs a bit of moral support, post away! SWIM wishes SWIY good luck and reminds SWIY that no matter how he chooses to address the issue, faith in himself and determination can make quitting a very reachable goal. Good luck!

DecoyPencil

Reputation Comments on this post:

	You bring up a number of good points and explain them well. Helpful post.
	good advice

[Sib]

In Patient detox would be your best bet, they will detox you painlessly as possible and you will learn to live life sober and how to deal with this disease.

[Rise against]

Swim is a freshman in college and is worried about his academic future without adderall. Swim has ADD extremely bad, he once stopped taking his adderall for a month (before he was hooked) and his math grade dropped from a 94% to a 52%. Adderall is the only drug that has successfully treated swim's ADD without major side effects; so swim wants to know if there is any way possible that he would be able to continue prescribed adderall use. Could swim have a trusted friend keep/lock the adderall, and admenister and moniter swims usage? Obviously swim's health is the most important thing at this point so swim would understand if he had to give up adderall completely, even if it ment sacrificing some grades.

Swim has found caffine to help swims cravings. Is caffine ok to use? or is swim just trading one addiction for another?

[DecoyPencil]

SWIM understands the position SWIY is in. It’s a tough call really. Ultimately, the decision would have to be one made between SWIY and his healthcare provider. It really depends on several factors such as the specifics of SWIY's ADD / ADHD diagnosis, what SWIY has tried or not tried already and what SWIY's expectations are. However, SWIM will try to offer a few thoughts that he hopes will be helpful.

Regarding SWIY's question about continuing prescribed Adderall use, the short answer would be maybe. If SWIY has a (very) trusted friend, family member or mongoose that could keep the Adderall and administer / monitor SWIY's usage, it could be a workable solution. This accomplishes one of the suggestions SWIM previously mentioned: making it a pain in the ass to abuse Adderall. If SWIY could find someone who meets the following criteria, it could work out quite well.

1. The person can be trusted not to take the Adderall themselves.
2. The person can be trusted to be available to administer the Adderall when a dose is required.
3. The person can be trusted to NOT administer the Adderall when SWIY wants to go over the required dose.

The only other potential issue SWIM sees with that method involves SWIY's already existent tolerance. Since SWIY has used Adderall so much and has a large tolerance, he might already need more than the prescribed dose to get the benefits. If that turns out to be the case, then SWIY might have to either abstain from Adderall long enough to reduce the tolerance or discuss his prescribed dose with his prescriber. Either way, the tolerance would have to be addressed before an "Adderall monitor" system would be effective in both controlling his symptoms and preventing abuse. If this solution failed to be workable, then SWIY would have to consider other options including eliminating Adderall all together. What does SWIY think regarding the tolerance issue?

As for caffeine, it sort of depends. Is SWIY using heavy doses (say, 1,000mg or more per day) of caffeine when he doesn't have Adderall and finding it to help only slightly? Or is SWIY using light to moderate doses (say, 200mg to 500mg per day) when he doesn't have Adderall and finding it to be reasonably effective in reducing his symptoms? While caffeine is generally considered "safer" than amphetamine, that safety is very dose-dependant. Caffeine has its own problems that can get a bit ugly if taken in high and chronic doses.

Caffeine is thought to be addicting and prolonged and excessive use can lead to caffeinism, a condition that has serious behavioral and physiological side effects. Individuals suffering from caffeinism are sometimes misdiagnosed as anxiety neurotics because of the similarity of symptoms (Greden, 1974).
Source: Foxx RM, Rubinoff A. Behavioral treatment of caffeinism: reducing excessive coffee drinking. J Appl Behav Anal 1979; 12 (3) :335-44.

So the bottom line on caffeine: if doses are kept reasonable it can be useful, but high and chronic doses can be just as bad. Is SWIY talking about a few cups of coffee a day, or a bottle of NoDoz a day?

DecoyPencil

[onzero]

Most important thing here is your health.

You might want to switch to something like Buproprion (wellbutrin) as it would offer partial relief of your ADD symptoms as well as act as an anti-depressant but it isn't very recreational so it wouldn't be worthwhile to abuse.

This would likely diminish the withdrawals you feel from being off the high doses of adderall and allow you to function in school, probably not as well, but maybe you'll at least be able to pass your classes while you get this issue under control.

Then maybe you could go back to being put on a low dose of adderall in combination with the buproprion, the buproprion will keep you from "crashing" off the adderall which could be reinforcing your addiction.

However, this is a classic case of addiction, and not dependency, so you might be powerless to it, and even if you have someone giving you the meds, what's to keep you from buying them off the street, or getting on ice?

Dependency is almost unavoidable with ADHD meds IMO/IME... I take dexedrine daily as it's prescribed for ADHD, it's funny although I am dependent on it I couldn't ever see swim getting addicted to it, it's just not that recreational to him... ritalin or focalin maybe... painkillers for sure.

That being said, if anything your addiction will have exacerbated your ADHD, many ex-speed addicts will have long-term ADHD symptoms.... so at this point you're just making the hole deeper. You're not in a great spot and you need to address the issue ASAP be that through rehab or whatever you see fit. 300mg in a day is just not safe, you will end up hospitalized or dead.

onzero added 1 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

And yes, in the mean time, by all means drink caffeine, anywhere between 200-500mg in a day is probably okay... over that you're pushing it.

[Rise against]

Thanks for all the advice, swim really appreciates your support.

Swim has a question, and its a question that swim has been debating for a long time. As of right now, NOBODY is aware of swim's problem. Swim tries extremely hard to hide his addiction, as swim feels very guilty about his problem. Should swim tell his family and friends about his problem?

By the way, Swim is not the stereotypical adderall addict, and telling his friends/family would be absolutly devistating to them. The first time swim got "high" on adderall was a complete accident. He forgot that he took his addy one morning and took a second dose. Swim liked it so much he decided to try it one more time... Adderall manipulated swims healthconcious thoughts so swim started using once a month, then once a week, then twice a week, then everyother day, then everyday.... Swim has never done anything (cigs, chew, pot) except adderall. Swim is a champion when it comes to declining peerpressure, unless the pressure comes from his own head. Swim was a full blown speed freak before he had his first beer... and to this day swim has only been drunk once. Swim often wonders "how in the hell did this happen"... but it did and now swim has to deal with it.

[Rise against]

Swim doesnt drink a whole lot of caffeine. Maybe one energy drink in the morning and one in the afternoon if swim needs an extra boost.

Swim is trying one more time to quit by himself... if swim fails, he will probably go to rehab, because swim CANT continue to live like this. Swim is so depressed, and finds it nearly impossible to make friends and do normal everyday things...

Swim's plan to quit...
Swim is going completely stop taking adderall for a week.
Since swim is in college, he is going to take only his prescribed dose so he doesnt flunk out.
Swim will only keep one weeks supply in his dorm (which is 280mg), the rest will be lock up 15 miles away.
Swim has Sept. 9th writtin on his pill bottle, which is the last time swim abused so swim will look at the date to remind himself of his plan.
The pill bottle will be out of swims sight, which will hopefully be less tempting to swim.
Any other suggestions, comments, revisions to swim's plan?

Swim was wondering how long does it take for cravings to go away... swim has read anywhere from a couple months, to never. Swim knows that it depends on the individual, but do they ever really go away or do they just subside?

Is it possible that swim damaged his heart or dopamine receptors from a year of adderall use? Will swim be depressed forever?

[DecoyPencil]

That sounds pretty reasonable for caffeine usage. Also, sorry ahead of time for the gigantour post. SWIM just realized how long it was!

Take it from SWIM, who remembers the horrors of dextroamphetamine addiction (then even upgraded to a methamphetamine addiction), failed attempts to quit happen. But there is something very important about SWIY's post that stands out like a neon sign. When reading SWIY's post, SWIM can tell that above all else, SWIY wants the real him back. He has examined his situation and realized that he values the important things (friends, family, school, LIFE) more than he values Adderall. That is so important. SWIM wishes he could offer some awe-inspiring comment that would play through SWIY's head during this difficult process and help inspire him to achieve victory. Unfortunately, SWIM isn't always a very inspiring person. But the best SWIM could come up with for inspiration is this: remember that the pill does not make you who you are. SWIM knows that SWIY can accomplish this. SWIM is rooting for SWIY every step of the way and "beaming" him thoughts of strength and support.

SWIM likes the plan that SWIY outlined, but would like to make a comment about it. Surely, SWIY already knows this, but SWIM will say it anyways. Never underestimate the enemy. 280mg divided over the course of one week may be a pretty mild amount compared to what SWIY is used to. But a few minor lapses in willpower can easily lead to that 280mg lasting only a few days. The remainder of SWIY's supply that is 15 miles away, is it with someone who can refuse SWIY access? The reason SWIM asks is because he knows the tricks the brain can play on itself when the cravings hit. When SWIM was at his worst point in his addiction, he would have NO problem driving 25, 50, or even 100 miles to obtain his beloved drug. If it isn't with someone that can refuse access, is that an option? It could be helpful.

Other than that, SWIM likes the plan. Regarding taking the prescribed dose, SWIM has a thought about that as well. Try to remember this. SWIY originally started using Adderall to treat his ADD / ADHD symptoms. It probably worked wonders, as it did for SWIM. At the prescribed doses, Adderall usually does its job, and the amount of euphoria is either mild or negligible. However, once one has abused Adderall and fallen in love with the euphoria, something changes. The true reason one takes the drug changes. It often becomes all about the euphoria. Meanwhile, one may be telling themselves that they are taking it for some other reason (lots of studying to do, boring job, etc). So what happens for a lot of people is that their perception of the drug changes. They start to subconsciously believe that if a certain amount doesn't give them euphoria, it isn't doing its job. However, a lot of times it IS doing its job (treating the symptoms) and they fail to realize that. For example, when SWIM got his addiction under control he took his prescribed dose of Adderall. He still had cravings. He WANTED to take more because the prescribed dose "wasn't working". However, SWIM eventually realized that if he sat down and made an honest effort to do his boring job, that the prescribed dose WAS having a very positive effect on his ability to do so. The trick is to draw the line between the therapeutic effects and the recreational effects. Draw that line and stand fast. SWIM stood fast at that line for a while, before eventually deciding it was a temptation he didn't need and quitting all together. He was surprised to find that his ability to actually be productive and useful came back in a big way with a bit of time and a few supplements. Just something to consider. The prescribed dose will probably do its job if SWIY can stick to it, but even the prescribed dose is a temptation to someone who has met and fallen in love with that euphoria. Tread carefully there because dextroamphetamine can be one sly temptress!

As for the cravings... those f*cking cravings! As SWIY mentioned, it does depend on the individual. But here is SWIM's theory. It almost feels like there are two different kinds of cravings. Keep in mind this is just SWIM’s perception of the way cravings seem to work.

Primary Cravings - the ones that show up shortly after quitting and make SWIMmers' lives miserable. They are a result of the withdrawal. They range in severity from moderate/severe to overwhelming. Luckily they are usually short-lived, subsiding shortly after the withdrawal symptoms do.

Secondary Cravings - the ones that take over after the primary cravings have subsided. They are sporadic, appearing whenever they damn well please, but usually come around when something reminds one of the drug they used to love. They range in severity from a fleeting, transitory thought to a pretty convincing temptation. They occur semi-frequently after just quitting, but become far less frequent the longer one doesn't use. Be careful with these, they are sly and often underestimated.

SWIM quit his hardcore abuse of amphetamine and methamphetamine two or so years ago and quit occasional use of Adderall a little over a year ago. The primary cravings are long gone, lasting only a week or so. The secondary cravings still appear to remind SWIM of their presence every once in a while. When SWIM first quit, they would show up several times a day. Now they are pretty inconsistent, a few times a week SWIM might think to himself "wow, I could really go for a line of AMPH right now". But that’s usually as far as it goes. One time last month, one of these thoughts actually had SWIM writing a text message to someone asking for a hookup, but SWIM's willpower returned and he cancelled the message. So all in all, they are pretty manageable now. Make no mistake; SWIM is so much happier now. That’s where the willpower will come from.

As for heart damage, SWIM wouldn't think it would be all that bad with only a year or so of use. But obviously there is always a chance of some damage. It might not be a bad idea to have a basic inspection from SWIY's doctor. If something is suspected, he can refer SWIY to a cardio specialist if necessary. But again, SWIM's first thought is that this wouldn't be necessary. When SWIM had his ticker checked after his abuse, he was told that he would be just fine as long as he didn't go back to heavy use.

The brain is a little different obviously. SWIM is almost sure that SWIY's use resulted in some brain chemistry changes (hesitant to use the word damage). Will SWIY be depressed forever? Nope. In fact, SWIM believes that SWIY will actually be happier in the long run. How long is the long run? Again it depends. It’s not all about the dopamine because amphetamine affects the brain in so many different ways. Some of these changes correct themselves quite quickly after stopping use. While others are still somewhat noticeable for months afterwards.

Source: Nwanze E, Jonsson G. Amphetamine neurotoxicity on dopamine nerve terminals in the caudate nucleus of mice. Neurosci Lett 1981; 26 (2) :163-8.
The dopamine levels were still significantly reduced (-37%) after two months, while the [3H]noradrenaline uptake had at this time-point reached almost normal values.

If SWIY wants to read more about the actual brain chemistry, take a look at this thread. Another user asked how a 2 year abuse of methamphetamine and Adderall might have affected his brain, and SWIM tried to answer as best he could. Although SWIY hasn't specifically used methamphetamine most of the mechanisms of action still apply, so most of the points are still relevant (with less severity most likely). Here is the link to that thread since SWIM doesn't want to duplicate information: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99762 There is really a lot that goes into determining this. For SWIM, he would say that it was slowly uphill over a period of a few months. Like SWIM said, the right attitude, determination and certain supplements help. Its definitely worth the end result. Good luck and as always, post if support is needed. Remember, SWIY can do this. The pill does not make you who you are.

DecoyPencil

Reputation Comments on this post:

Lots of rep for this excellent contribution. Full of information, insight and support.

[Rise against]

DecoyPencil thanks for your posts! they really are helping swim. Its been 2 weeks since swim has had any adderall, and swim's depression has subsided, and energy has mostly returned. swim thinks he will wait one more week before he goes back to his prescribed doses. Swim still has cravings, but not as intense. Swim has abstained from adderall for 2+ weeks many times but thinks this try at quiting will be different, because swim actually has a plan. Swim has changed his plan though. Swim thinks he will store his adderall in the health room at his college and will have the nurse give swim his adderall. He will tell the nurse that he has been recieving heavy presure to sell his pills and is worried someone will steal them if he keeps them in his dorm room (which is true by the way). Swim thinks this will be more effective than keeping them at his house.

Yes its true, swim wants his friends, family, life back more than he wants speed. swim misses his old self. He used to be so nice and caring, but adderall turned swim into a selfish monster. Swim cant handle being like that anymore.

So far swim is impressed with the way he has handled himself so far, it is easy for swim to give in right now, but he isnt letting himself... and hopefully wont.

Swims only problem is his untreated ADD at the moment. His grades are slipping and he is losing everything he owns . In the past 2 weeks swim has lost his wallet twice, his keys 3 times, his cell phone to many times to count and has spaced out a few big assignments. Luckly his missing things have turned up in variaus lost and found around the campus. Caffine helps swims ADD a little, but obviously not as effective as adderall.

[DecoyPencil]

Hey no problem, its really good to hear that SWIY has made progress and has hit the two week mark! SWIM gives the new plan a definite because it puts a real person between SWIY and the Adderall. SWIM couldn't really think of a better person either. SWIM would suspect that a nurse at a college would be aware of the prevalence of Adderall abuse among college students, and would therefore be pretty unlikely to give SWIY much more than his prescribed dose on any given day. It removes the convenience factor of having the bottle handy at all times and sort of limits SWIY to the prescribed dose even when he wants to take more.

Congratulations on what SWIY has accomplished so far on his own. Its certainly not easy, and to read where SWIY was when he started this thread compared to where he is now is quite impressive. Don't get cocky though . That is a big cause of slip-ups, when one underestimates the enemy!

As for the reemergence of the untreated ADD/ADHD symptoms, that might have been expected to an extent. Thankfully SWIY had managed to find his stuff each time something has been lost! Hang in there though. When SWIY heads back to his prescribed dose next week, SWIM suspects that it will be enough to make a big difference. As SWIM mentioned before, when taking the prescribed dose, try to separate the therapeutic effects from the euphoria if possible. That can be hard to do sometimes, but it makes all the difference. That way, it helps get rid of the mentality that "euphoria = effectiveness". When in reality, its the treatment of the symptoms that signifies effectiveness of a given dose. Try to keep that distinction so that SWIY can have realistic expectations for the prescribed dose and be less tempted to increase. As always, post away with updates or if support is needed. Good luck!

DecoyPencil

[Rise against]

swim had a rough/bad day... and feels like he needs adderall bad just to escape... the real Swim doesnt want to take it and is trying to stay in control but the other part of swim is screaming for adderall and manipulating swims thoughts... swim cant eat, sleep, or even think right now because his craving is so bad, all he can think about is ADDERALL. Swim doesnt understand, its been 2 weeks and he hasnt had a craving half as bad as the craving he has now. Swim hasnt given in yet, but swim is worried. His prescription arrives in the mail tommorow and swim isnt sure if he will be able to control himself. Swim has drank lots of caffiene to make the craving go away, but its not working this time. What should swim do? Any tips on how to help swim control himself tomorrow when he gets his adderall?

Swims mind keeps thinking about how hes going to crush a few 20's as soon as he gets his prescription tomorrow and snort them... Swim is trying as hard as he can to block these thoughts but they are ALL swim can think about. Swim is going to try to RUN his pills to the nurse as soon as he gets them, swim hopes he can stay clean. FUCK


Also, swim is wondering if he might have done something to the nerves in his brain or something from his previous usage or if this is some kind of wierd withdrawl... it happens more frequently when swim quits adderall after binging, or when he has intense cravings for adderall. When ever swim turns his head fast, or if he transitions from light to dark, or dark to light, he gets dizzy and disorented for a few seconds. His eyes loose focus and his stomic jumps, like if swim were on a rollar coaster. Sometimes swim's tounge goes numb too. Swim is kind of worried. Should he get this checked out? Is it possible that this is connected with swim's adderall use?

[Swimster]

You can do it man! I went through this with tramadol. It took me ~3 weeks to a month to stop being crazy over it. I honestly believe that you must realize that it is no good and plastic and that it provides nothing. life comes once man.

Life(once gained back) is more euphoric then adderall. Remember. Just not as often...

Remember the harsh truth that the faster you stop the better the chance of keeping your life you will have. thats harsh and uncaring of this world, and true.

You should throw away any pills and start working out, getting supplements like emergenC or samE DHEA, etc.

But find a fun hobby and take life SLOOOW...every moment counts...keep your head up and find a girlfriend if you dont have one.

[DecoyPencil]

Hey Rise,

Sorry to hear that SWIY had such a rough day! My hamster agrees with Swimster for one thing in particular that he said.

Originally Posted by Swimster

Remember the harsh truth that the faster you stop the better the chance of keeping your life you will have. thats harsh and uncaring of this world, and true.

It is the harsh truth. But it is also the truth. Please try to remember this today when SWIY gets his prescription. It isn't easy and SWIM knows that. But if SWIY starts down that path (ie, snorting a few pills here and there), it is likely that SWIY's prescription will be half-gone before he knows what happened. SWIM knows how that goes. It starts as just "a few" pills in order to ease a harsh day, but then the whole RX is gone before SWIY knows it. Be careful with this. As SWIY said, try to RUSH those pills to the nurse before SWIY has a chance to get crazy. Rememeber that even though SWIY feels like he needs Adderall to excape, that it is NOT a real escape. In fact, instead of escaping, it may very well make SWIY feel worse in the end. Deep down, I suspect that SWIY knows this is true. He knows, and I can tell he values keeping free of Adderall abuse. Use the knowledge of the truth and SWIY's goals as motivation to hand over his prescription directly to the nurse as soon as he gets it. The prescribed dose should be enough to treat his ADD/ADHD symptoms, but any more than that is likely to lead back to that ol' downward spiral.

Please take all of this into account before SWIY gets his prescription filled today. And post here to let us SWIMmers know how it went! My hamster wishes SWIY all the best and hopes he manages to overcome this strong craving. Fight it man! Swimster also had a good suggestion in taking up a workout routine. It helps with the cravings big time! Again, post here to let us know how it goes!

DecoyPencil