Need minor legal advice (USA)

[Nicaine]

Someone I know dialed 9-1-1 and reported that he had been using cocaine for hours, stopped using it about 4 hours ago, and was feeling unwell (details unimportant). He was told they were sending a fire truck/paramedics over.

When the paramedics arrived, a county sheriff and police officer waltzed right in the door as well, without being invited. This person was informed that the police are required to accompany them on "drug-related" calls, even though the person I know stated clearly over the telephone that they had stopped using the stuff over 4 hours ago and didn't mention where they had used it either.

One of the paramedics waltzed into his bedroom and grabbed his prescribed medications also (he wasn't allowed to accompany them). Basically he was sitting on a chair with 3 police officers standing over him, while the paramedics took his blood pressure and etc. and who knows who might have been rooting around in his bathroom/bedroom. He told me he suffered an extremely powerless/helpless feeling and mental suffering from this treatment.

Not absolutely sure, but I believe it's illegal for the police to enter a residence uninvited, without due suspicion of illegal activity and/or probable cause. A call that someone had been using cocaine hours ago (no location specified) is hardly a reason to enter the residence! They were told this and made a bunch of excuses ("we're not searching your house" blah blah), but they did not leave.

Question, could my friend get anywhere by calling the A.C.L.U. or similar organization? Unfortunately, no names or badge numbers were taken, so I guess that could make things kind of difficult. There were no illicit drugs in the house as far as I know, but he is still very, very pissed off that the police entered his residence uninvited, without a search warrant or (in his opinion) any reason to be there. Of course, they did glance around the room and if anything had been there he would have been arrested, even though he did not invite the police in and didn't want them there.

P.S. as one of the paramedics was walking out the door, he said out loud "hope you get some help for that drug problem" (this was an apartment building). I'm sure this guys neighbors will be delighted to know, eh? When he called me up, he was so pissed he was screaming into the phone, my ears still haven't recovered.

Any advice appreciated.Edited by: Nicaine

[wicked1]

Well, Im afraid calling and saying you were on drugs would fall under "reasonable cause" to enter and search the home.

Ive had problems w/ paramedics as well. My neighbor has some sort
of problem and the paramedics come for her all the time. One time
they knocked on my door, and as soon as I answered it they were
marching upstairs through my appartment to get to the neighbors back
door. No asking if they could come in. just pushed me out
of the way as soon as the door was open.

Having flashing lights on top of your vehicle must sure give you a lot of balls.

[Nicaine]

He called and said he'd completed a binge on cocaine about four hours ago. He did not say he was on drugs (in fact said he was OFF DRUGS), he did not say where the binge took place. There was really no reason for police to accompany the paramedics, because there was no indication of any threat or current illegal activity (as far as I see it anyway). This was not a "drug related" call as the paramedics claim, it was a medical call.

If anything similar happens again, my friend plans on taking down names & badge numbers next time, because he believes this is the sort of case the ACLU occasionally takes when this sort of thing happens too often to too many people.Edited by: Nicaine

[sloppo]

As I see it, if you are calling 911 from your home about anything drug related, then there is no reason to be upset if police come also. Your friend called 911 because of an emergency and the authorities and paramedics arrived, he should be thankful not upset. If you do not want paramedics or police in your home, do not call 911 from your home telling them to come. Go to the emergency room if your worried about it.





Sloppo

[Nagognog2]

Technically - it is called "Exigent Circumstances" in court if you object to having the police enter your home when you call 911 for an ambulance. You are not likely to win.


Some communities send police with an ambulance regardless of the circumstances of the call. Other communities do not. On the up-side of the coin: The first thing they taught us when I took an EMT course was how to ditch a police escort in our ambulance. Ya see, the police love to lead the charge, so they always want to lead your rig(ambulance) to the hospital. So...the hospital is to your right at the intersection, say. So the police car goes right. YOU go left! Reason? Once other cars are stopped and see the cop go flying through the intersection - they are likely to proceed...and hit your rig! Slow down. Wait. Go the other way. Concept is to get the patient to the hospital in one piece. Once you, the EMT's, are there - the emergency is over and you are controlling their life functions. Let the police arrive first. Maybe they'll figure it out that you don't need them.

[sands of time]

Unfortunately, the police are not geared towards harm reduction. They want every drug user in jail, and they can pretty much do what ever they want.

[Softrat]

This is why if you are goign to use drugs legal or illegal it is very important to be responsible and safe as possible in your use.


Do not binge on coke. Do not take 10 pill of XTC in 5 hours. And do not call 911 just cause you don't feel well. If you have good reason to belive your life is in peril then call, otherwise you should probably ride it out.

[als5555]

the police may have showed up and questioned your friend, but they couldn't search without a warrant, and they could only do something if the drugs were on him, not in him. if the show up again he should take the badge numbers and talk to a lawer about breaking an entering without a warrant on reasonable suspiscion. reasonable suspiscion and finding nothing or too much questioning such as asking to look around can lead to trouble ofr the cops. of course the cops know this, but they also know that not too many civilians know this, but the ones that do have an upper hand.

[oldman]

Certainly cops cannot enter a home and perform a search without a warrant. But since the patriot act an officer of the law may enter a home merely on an act of good faith (suspicion) and then may detain the person present until another officer can arrive with awarrant. There is someact that allows them to maintain presentwhile awaiting a warrant to arriveso that evidence that could be destroyed if they were to leave is not tampered with. They can be walking by your house smell chemicals tey believe responsible for manufacturing drugs, enter your home find no such chemicals but maybe a bag of weed and the seach was legit because they were acting in good faith.I really can sympathize with your friends plight and the anguish that he suffered because of their presence but as said earlier, law enforcement as well as paramedics do not perceive the drug user as a citizen with the same rights as a non user or any for that matter. It is wrong but what are you gonna do.I had some similar run ins last year and my lawyer told me do not ever call or speak to any form of law control unless you are possibly bleeding to death, and then maybe. Just go to the ER beforehavinga house call done or wait it out otherwise suffer the consequences, you won't beat the cops in court, you're lucky they didn't do someting like threaten you while you were tweaked out.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Softrat

Do not binge on coke.

Uhhm... I'm sure my friend appreciates the advice, but the nature of coke is a binge substance. Yes, it can be used without binging, but the nature of it (very short acting and intense) encourages such use with or without the desire to do so.

Would you argue with someone smoking weed to leave the potato chips & pizza alone? It's the nature of the substance to increase appetite, so personally I wouldn't make such comments to someone. Use the substance or not in the first place, yes, but I wouldn't argue for trying to fight the natural tendency of a substance once the usage is underway. Just me maybe.

If you have good reason to belive your life is in peril then call, otherwise you should probably ride it out.

I'm sure my friend will think twice before making the call next time. Thing is, he doesn't have a car, so that makes things difficult as far as getting to an ER or whatever. He called to ask them whether they thought he was having a medical emergency or could wait until the next day, and they said they were sending someone. I'm sure he won't even be doing that much next time. It's sad, because I don't want to see him die or suffer serious health problems without asking for help.

Originally Posted by als5555

the police may have showed up and questioned your friend, but they couldn't search without a warrant, and they could only do something if the drugs were on him, not in him.

He knew that, but he didn't want them in the house at all. I'm pretty sure he had nothing illegal in the house, he just didn't want them there. There was no reason whatsoever for them to be there. He said specifically on the phone that he had come down over four hours ago.

As cops, they were being intimidating without even thinking about it. I know I wouldn't enjoy being intimidated in my own home by uninvited/unwanted guests, and would probably have been just as angry as he was.Edited by: Nicaine

[wingsofazrael]

Originally Posted by sands of time

Unfortunately, the police are not geared towards harm reduction. They want every drug user in jail, and they can pretty much do what ever they want.

i have never heard anything that has more truth to it. arrest people that commit real crimes...

[meemeemee]

911 usually will send all 3 levels of public safety professionals to the site of a call. Firefighters are usually first on the scene, followed by paramedics and cops. If you call for a drug related incident, then that is enough for grounds for suspicion on part of a cop. I would still think they need a warrant, but times are different, and your Patriot Act sucks.

[Softrat]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

Uhhm... I'm sure my friend appreciates the advice, but the nature of coke is a binge substance. Yes, it can be used without binging, but the nature of it (very short acting and intense) encourages such use with or without the desire to do so.

Would you argue with someone smoking weed to leave the potato chips & pizza alone? It's the nature of the substance to increase appetite, so personally I wouldn't make such comments to someone. Use the substance or not in the first place, yes, but I wouldn't argue for trying to fight the natural tendency of a substance once the usage is underway. Just me maybe.

The fact that coke is short in duration and intense in effect does not necessitate dangerous binge use. Humans are not your averageanimal, theycontrol their behavior. This is true intoxicated or sober. If using cocaine continuously for many hoursis likely tolead to dangerous physical conditions then there is no excuse for doing so. The coke does not force you to do anything.


Edited by: Softrat

[korky8097]

no judge will go your way on this one im thinking. Your friend
called them and even mentioning drugs could probably be reason to
search. Damn pat. act. I still and always will believe that
if somebody is having a serious adverse reaction to a drug or is
overdosing, calling for help should not mean that they will get thrown
in jail. I think that is one circumstance where police should
just let the poor person get help. I believe the overdose
statistic in america could be stopped by an incredible amount if people
werent worried about getting busted when trying to save themselves or
a friends life. Most people in that state of mind would try
to help them on their own. Just my 2 cents, ive never understood
their motive behind this.

[unico_walker]

I saw a cop on the show COPS telling a woman who was going into a 6
month rehab the next day and had just admitted she used earlier "you
admit to a felony, as far as I am concerned you derserve to rot in
prison for a long time". As long as this attitude prevails users have
to face the dilemma of calling for help and possibly facing legal
trouble or risking their lives.

[blindpanda_eric]

Seriously, if there was nothing in the residence that he got caught
for, then relax. He was going to get in trouble anyway, he is
lucky the medics were there to help. What if he was freaking
out? What if when the medics got there, he started throwing
punches? Cops had a legit reason to be there, in my opinion.

[Nagognog2]

That's easy: If the person/persons start throwing punches, EMT's retreat and then call for police backup. Having the police arrive "just in case they might" is tantamount to locking someone up "just in case they might" break a law. Let that stand, and we all go to jail. Just in case we might.

[blindpanda_eric]

That is a valid point, nagognod2.


Edited by: blindpanda_eric

[BrugmansiaBrujo]

Hello out there. Patriot Act, amoungst other commie laws, allows
search and seizure without warrant. Also allows phone tapping,
and e-mail snooping without warrant.



Police or any other agency are NOT going to be on your side, no matter what you may be thinking, if drugs are involved.



Said friend should have either driven self to hospital, or else if not
capable he should have called a friend to annonymously drop him off at
the hospital. Once there, he should only tell of his symptoms,
then let the medicos figure out what to do.



Sounds fucked up, but realistically that's the best response, you
cannot trust law enforcement, they are only after making themselves
look good, not protecting the people or harm reduction.



Also new laws make it a crime for doctors to not report drug abuse, so
don't admit to anything. As long as you are not in complete dire
near death OD, they will be able to give you something to stabilize you
based on what they see with their tests of blood pressure, pulse, etc.,
without actually knowing why you are having that problem.

[Konman]

The best way to handle this situation would be to just call 911 and
tell them "I'm not feeling well, I might be having a heart
attack" This way there is no suspicion, and therefore no police
escort.

[blindpanda_eric]

Yea, what Konman said is very true. That way, before they know
what is truly wrong, you will be on the way to the hospital.