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  #1  
Old 01-09-2009, 22:14
dontpanik dontpanik is offline
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needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

My wife recently broke off the needle tip on a 29 gauge hypodermic needle while shooting herself up with heroin in her femoral. After it happened some of her friends tried to get it out, they called the hospital and said there was nothing they could do about it because of how close it was to an artery. When she came home I took her to the hospital and a doctor verified it was there with an x-ray and attempted to remove it. He must of tried for a minute and then gave up which was not too surprising with all the stares we got while walking from the waiting room to the ER. Intravenous drug is not too popular in this area and I think they felt no sympathy for anyone who would have a problem because of that sort of drug use.

Anyhow he said it will work it's way out. My wife said that "it's surgical steel, it will not work its way out." Her and I are both worried that it will make its way into the artery and travel to her heart.

Does anyone have any ideas of what to do or experiences with this sort of thing? We have insurance and a follow up with her usual doctor but I'm not too sure if she will get the right kind of care as a non drug user would.
  #2  
Old 02-09-2009, 00:26
Dionne Dionne is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Gosh that is awful! I understand how you feel about how other people view heroin addiction. I wish I could help.
Perhaps the nurse at your local methadone clinic could be more helpful? Or some other clinic of that type of thing.
Is your wife in pain?
Kel
  #3  
Old 02-09-2009, 00:59
dontpanik dontpanik is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

She's is not in pain, she is more worried than anything. I talked to a nurse at a clinic here and she is going to be going there thursday. The nurse seemed genuinely concerned. So hopefully it goes better than the hospital we went to.
  #4  
Old 02-09-2009, 02:19
Dionne Dionne is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Yes I also would be worried. I am glad that nurse was helpful, and didn't judge. Please let us know how it goes
  #5  
Old 02-09-2009, 10:59
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AW: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Don`t let her move to much
Go to a specialist ASAP.
Say it`s happen by a accident

How big is that piece?
And where it`s now located?

Imo. it will be trapped!
  #6  
Old 02-09-2009, 15:00
fnord fnord is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Later in life your body will build tissue around the needle. Creating a lump of scar tissue. This may cause muscular problems. Other than that, it should be fine. I highly doubt it's in your vein. And it's not going to just float down your vein like a stream to organs. It's metal, it can't bend around the twists and turns of veins. Besides, veins go straight to your heart. Arteries go away from the heart to the organs. The needle would naturally work it's way out of the vein. It has sharp edges and pressure forcing it out of the vein. The fact that muscles move alot may cause some damage from the needle tips but i think it would be minuscule. If the doctor was capable of remvoving or felt t posed a threat im surethey would of told you regardless fo your drug hobby. I cant remember the name of the psych condition but some people have been found to have hundreds of needles and pins shoved in there legs during postmortem exams,The serial killer albert fish was one of those people,he was found with 28 needles in his groin and anus area.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good answer to what might happen later in life with the needle point still in body

Last edited by fnord; 03-09-2009 at 15:16.
  #7  
Old 03-09-2009, 13:36
Roscco Roscco is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

This has happened to two people SWIM knows, both years ago with no adverse consequences.... yet. Wouldn't worry too much. Unlikey to ever come to much.
  #8  
Old 03-09-2009, 15:48
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Just checking, she has stopped using her groin now, hasn't she? Cos the last thing you wanna be doing is disturbing it in any way.

H
  #9  
Old 03-09-2009, 18:00
dontpanik dontpanik is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Yeah she stopped using all together. Was getting in too much trouble with the law. She has got an appointment in the clinic in a few hours i will tell how it goes.
  #10  
Old 03-09-2009, 18:32
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

OKay, good luck with that, hope it goes well.

H
  #11  
Old 03-09-2009, 18:53
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Sparkles hopes everything goes ok. Here's a topic that gives all info about injecting, just in case the OP partner decides to inject again, better safe than sorry.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...t=inject+drugs

Take care.
Sparkles.
  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 13:17
dontpanik dontpanik is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Well we just got back from the hospital again. This time we were referenced to a different hospital by her primary doctor because there was a team of surgeons working last night. After 4 hours of waiting in the ER we were finally seemed by a few doctors. They used this X-ray machine that allowed them to see the needle in real time but could not remove it from her with out risking doing damage to an artery. They then gave her a cat scan to make sure it wasn't near any vessels and it turned out that it is safely stuck in a muscle and is not going anywhere. Besides the waiting room the staff there seemed very geniune and willing to help (it might have helped that she was fully covered with insurance.

Aside having a needle stuck in here for the rest of her life and a few stiches from the surgery she will be just fine. Thanks for all of your concerns.
  #13  
Old 04-09-2009, 13:31
tomazco tomazco is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Ok, neither you nor her will want to attempt this, but i would try finding or making the strongest magnet/electromagnet available, and jiggle it upwards directly above the hole, vertical to where it went in, in the hope that the magnet's strength, twinned with the sharpness of the snapped back of the needle, and the softness of the flesh, will allow the needle to rip through the flesh back out again.

You need a REALLY strong magnet, and you need to do it quick, before scar tissue forms. And, if it works, my god will it hurt!
But at least there will be no further danger....


Try this sort of thing:
http://www.first4magnets.com/f4999n-...rbore-71-p.asp
  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:05
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomazco View Post
Ok, neither you nor her will want to attempt this, but i would try finding or making the strongest magnet/electromagnet available, and jiggle it upwards directly above the hole, vertical to where it went in, in the hope that the magnet's strength, twinned with the sharpness of the snapped back of the needle, and the softness of the flesh, will allow the needle to rip through the flesh back out again.

You need a REALLY strong magnet, and you need to do it quick, before scar tissue forms. And, if it works, my god will it hurt!
But at least there will be no further danger....
Needles are made of surgical steel. Which is not magnetic.

H
  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:09
fnord fnord is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Thats a really bad idea,good thought but horribly bad idea,what if the electro magnet causes more damage then the needle would? I'm sure theres a good reason why the doctors decided to leave it in there..... I mean i have a tiny screw stuck in my ear from when i was a kid but i dont go around trying to bulid electro magnets to rip my eardrum out!
  #16  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:09
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Any do it yourself surgery is dangerous and should never be attempted, we're not talking about a splinter in the finger here.
Glad it all worked out for the OPs wife though.
Take care.
Sparkles.
  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:16
tomazco tomazco is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by helene View Post
Needles are made of surgical steel. Which is not magnetic.

H
Are you sure? I didn't know that.
And yes, it is a gross idea
  #18  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:17
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomazco View Post
Ok, neither you nor her will want to attempt this, but i would try finding or making the strongest magnet/electromagnet available, and jiggle it upwards directly above the hole, vertical to where it went in, in the hope that the magnet's strength, twinned with the sharpness of the snapped back of the needle, and the softness of the flesh, will allow the needle to rip through the flesh back out again.

You need a REALLY strong magnet, and you need to do it quick, before scar tissue forms. And, if it works, my god will it hurt!
But at least there will be no further danger....
Sorry man, but this is very poor advice to give out. And you have a commercial link in the post.
  #19  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:19
tomazco tomazco is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
Sorry man, but this is very poor advice to give out. And you have a commercial link in the post.
Well ok we've established that it wouldn't work, but provided the magnet was carefully positioned ABOVE the needle, i can't see how it would travel in any direction other than up, following both the magnet's field, and the path of least resistance in the flesh, i.e. the hole it went in through

And it was just a thought
  #20  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:27
Helene Gold member Helene is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

But it doesn't deter from the fact that surgical steel is not magnetic.

Am I sure? Hm.

Oh god, you've made me begin to doubt myself...hang on...

Right - I've now got a variety of different works (1ml's, orange heads, blue heads etc) on the table in front of me, and am trying to pick them up with a fridge magnet.

It's not happening.

Surgical steel is not magnetic!

H

Edit: Cheers Tomazco. My partner just walked in on the above scene, gave me a very strange look, then turned and left the room again. Now doubt he now thinks I've lost the plot completely! lol

Last edited by Helene; 04-09-2009 at 14:32.
  #21  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:28
tomazco tomazco is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by helene View Post
But it doesn't deter from the fact that surgical steel is not magnetic.

Am I sure? Hm.

Oh god, you've made me begin to doubt myself...hang on...

Right - I've now got a variety of different works on the table in front of me, and am trying to pick them up with a fridge magnet.

It's not working.

Surgical steel is not magnetic!

H
Oh...how odd... i don't understand physics at all
Well this is all strictly hypothetical anyway...
  #22  
Old 04-09-2009, 14:37
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Sparkles wouldn't wanna be dragging a sharps tip through her fuckin' arteries, magnetic or not love.

Sparkles.
  #23  
Old 14-07-2010, 11:55
streets188 streets188 is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Im sure you will be glad to here you are not alone swim just broke off a niddle in the same place fortunatly swim had not sucked back any blood but still it is right next to the fem and swim has ben worried sick for the past 2 hours so thank you to all of you that have taken the time to help this person in the easing of there minds but. any insight will be appreciated but swim is having a little pain it seams that my upper thy muscle is sore and my groin feels quite literly like there is a needle stuck in it. should this be expected or dose this mean this is a more serious problem?
  #24  
Old 14-07-2010, 13:25
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Quote:
Originally Posted by streets188 View Post
Im sure you will be glad to here you are not alone swim just broke off a niddle in the same place fortunatly swim had not sucked back any blood but still it is right next to the fem and swim has ben worried sick for the past 2 hours so thank you to all of you that have taken the time to help this person in the easing of there minds but. any insight will be appreciated but swim is having a little pain it seams that my upper thy muscle is sore and my groin feels quite literly like there is a needle stuck in it. should this be expected or dose this mean this is a more serious problem?
Although the person in this thread turned out to be ok, that in no way means that swiy, or anyone else with a similar problem will be ok. A few mm here or a few mm there make all the difference between safe and extremely dangerous in this situation.

The only way to ensure safety is to IMMEDIATELY go to an ER, tell them exactly what happened, and see how it goes. Even if the staff there look down on injecting drug-users, they still have an over-riding primary concern which is to do everything in their ability to help injured people. Don't be concerned about little things like getting a few nasty stares; this is potentially extremely serious. WASTE NO TIME!

Perhaps this would be a good time to reassess swiy's using altogether. When people start going in the femoral, it's the beginning of the end. They either end up having their leg(s) amputated at the highest possible point, meaning life in a wheelchair, they die from damage to the femoral artery/blood loss/infection, or, they give up before this happens to them.
Swim has several friends who are now wheelchair bound, and lost a friend about a year ago, who died from rapid, colossal blood loss, following a successful femoral injection, which just nicked the artery as the needle was being removed. Those of swims friends who are still injecting in the femoral have constant pain in their legs, difficulty walking, repeated infections etc etc.

If swiy decides not to switch to another method of intake, or moe back to less risky injection sites(if possible), then there are ways to reduce the harm done via femoral injecting.

1) To avoid this problem, of needles breaking off in the flesh, use the correct size needle. 29G needles should NEVER be used for femoral injections-even if they are capable of reaching the vein, they are simply too flimsy, and likely to break off. Use 'big blues' or 'big greens', needles of either 21G or 23G - nothing smaller than 23G.

2) The risk of infection is greatly increased in this area, as it is a hot, sweaty, enclosed part of the body - ideal for germs and bacteria. Subsequently, NEVER inject here without having first cleaned the area and wiped it with an alcohol wipe. ALWAYS wash your hands thoroughly prior to the process.

3) Always prepare for the worst when injecting into the femoral. Make sure that you are in a safe, quiet place, where you can take your time injecting, and give all your concentration to the injecting procedure. Have clean rags or old clothes to hand, in case of heavy bleeding. Similarly, ensure that a working phone is within reach, so that you can call an ambulance even if bleeding heavily.
If hands are shakey for any reason, either try and calm yourself down before injecting, or if not successful, do not attempt to inject the femoral, and instead smoke/snort some to relax yourself first.

4) After having SLOWLY carried out all steps in the injection procedure, (insertion, registering, injecting, withdrawing), apply firm pressure over the injection site with a clean rag/cloth for a full 1-2 minutes. This aids healing, and prevents significant bloodloss - and what may initially appear as only minor bloodloss can rapidly get heavier and heavier when the femoral is concerned.

5) If only injecting in one leg, continue with that, do not attempt to begin injecting in the femoral of the other leg - the risk of damage when locating the vein for the first time is simply too great. If injecting in both femorals already, continue with that, (of course only if you are absolutely not prepared to move to safer routes of administration, or injecting sites).

6) As always, try to inject with other people, who can look out for you/help you if an emergency arises - if blood starts spraying out of your groin and hitting the ceiling, it can really help to have friends there to take control.

7) As soon as possible, visit your local needle exchange and inform them that you're injecting in the femoral, and they should give you advice on safer technique, aswell as looking into alternative ROA's for you. - This really is useful, and it will make your injection technique better and therefore safer.

8) Never inject in the femoral around other users who don't inject there - seeing how 'easy' someone can do it, and seemingly be fine afterwards, can take away alot of the fear and other barriers preventing users from using the site. Similarly, try not to talk about femoral injecting amongst those who don't.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Great, thorough advice. Very helpful, thank you.
fantastic reply & good tips, as usual. ;)
Awesome post, chock full o harm reduction advice. One of the best posts I've seen in a long while.
  #25  
Old 14-07-2010, 16:43
[tanarilla.] [tanarilla.] is offline
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Re: needle tip broke off while injecting in the femoral

Depending on how deep it is, it WILL work its way out, there is absolutely no chance it's going to travel around in her body. The natural reaction is that the body will try to push the foreign object out, where it's closest to the surface. Assuming it was in a somewhat vertical position, this will happen fast. [2-3 weeks, maybe even faster] The only issue could be if it was somehow to accidentally move upwards in her torso and damage the femoral nerve, if it hits the muscle, that could be a problem. Unless that is the case, the needle won't damage anything at all, presuming it was sterile. However, it could heal into her if it's quite deep, in which case, well, it's just going to stay there.

My bunny really wouldn't reconmend, but SWIY could try to fish the needle out with a pair of mosquito forceps [look for one in a first aid box - a forcep with really thin scissors and an upwards pointing edge] , through the scar tissue [where it went in].

Last edited by [tanarilla.]; 24-07-2010 at 20:49.

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