Once an addict always an addict?

[missparkles]

Is it possible to become addicted to an opiate and then use other substances like weed or alcohol without becoming dependent on them? Are milder substances like these just gateways back to full blown addiction?
TIA.
Sparkles.

Reputation Comments on this post:

this is a topic that needed to be revisted..excellent addition

[Spare Chaynge]

Of course...swim has many many good friends who have had one of the following or problems with all meth,heroin,cocaine,benzodiapines, and even alcohol.

This myth of "once and addict always an addict" is nuts. It is a scare tactic designed to keep people either in an organization or to help them better themselves. Unfortunately it often back fires and when the person could probably return to drinking or smoking casually they fail because they truly believe "once and addict always and addict".

Swims good friend had a 10 year abuse problem mainly using fentanyl,meth,cocaine, alcohol benzos.. She is perfectly fine now drinking and smoking occassionally, swim hung out with her a month ago.. Holds a steady job and is emotionally stable and idependent.

Swim was introduced to a girl recently at at bar. She was drinking and half way through the 4 hour conversation said she use to have a morphine ,cocaine,alprazolam addiction...swim was shocked..she drank way more moderatly then any college age kid swim knows.

another friend, one of his best struggled with oxycodone,fentanyl and prescription amphetamine abuse.. he drinks normally now and smokes occassionally.

and another friend who he hangs out with also struggled with a alcohol and benzodaipine addiction for a couple of years.. she drinks and smokes normally and occasionally uses mdma.

swim could list more but figured yall would be bored...One common theme between all of these people is they kicked aa with in 8 months and learned to control there drinking/smoking on their own and they started doing so with a good amount of time between quitting aa and starting to drink/smoke. Swim is not going to sugar coat this but he has seen many many people fail at trying to drink/smoke occasionally but in every case the person was in a 12 step program and went immediatly back to drinking and smoking.

swim basic message here is if you sit in a program that tells swiy over and over that you are powerless then leave and have a drink...that message is going to stick with you for a long long time...From swims time in the program he knows this... His thoughts about using have changed. When he was in the program it was "man swim wants to get like 5 80mg oxycodone tablets and do them all in a dark room" Now after being out of the program for a year they are man it would be nice to have a cold beer as swim is rather hot at this moment and would enjoy the slight buzz...but not to much because that girl is hot and swim wants to talk to her about school."

[chillinwill]

You know, when Red Rock was part of "the program" meaning NA, this was always emphasized to him that he would never be able to use any mind altering substance again without it causing problems in his life. He was born an addict and will always be an addict and whether or not he is a practicing addict was his choice from the moment he set foot in the doors of NA. This is so not the reality that its not even funny. The thinking once an addict, I'm doomed to be an addict for the rest of my life is just negative thinking setting up one's self for failure. That shit has got to go if one wants to be free from their drug of choice. Red Rock has been able to use psychedelics recreationally since his heroin addiction as well as weed and some MDMA so he would beg to differ on the saying, once an addict, always an addict.

One thing to keep in mind though. Just because Red Rock was able to use other substances without it causing him to go back into a full blown use of his drug of choice doesn't mean this will be the case for everyone. One needs to do whats best for their own recovery program whether that be 12 steps or "spiritual journey".

[Spare Chaynge]

swim seconds what will says

"One thing to keep in mind though. Just because Red Rock was able to use other substances without it causing him to go back into a full blown use of his drug of choice doesn't mean this will be the case for everyone. One needs to do whats best for their own recovery program whether that be 12 steps or "spiritual journey".

[miggeth]

It's almost completely subjective in Gilberts opinion.

[thebige]

swim feels strongly that you are only a addict when you are addicted to a substance......
And by labeling yourself as a addict is setting yourself up for failure in recovery.......
Almost as if there is something wrong with swiy......."swim may have a drug problem in the past,but that was then.........today swim is a different person"....might be a better way to put it.........
just the way swim feels...............

[Spucky]

Imo. People are as long addicted as they using "something" for a different state of Mind.
Addiction is not related to one Stuff/ Drug alone,
in Fact (imo.) it`s a Escape from the own inside!

Edit:
How to learn to accept the inner-self:
First we have to accept that we are all not perfect, everyone has a black-Spot.
We have to accept that something`s are unchangeable.
The Human-Identity is "imo." related to suffering, suffering is normal,
there is absolute no claim to Happiness.

[missparkles]

There is a school of thought that believes once the brain is primed by any substance (alcohol, heroin, cigarettes) that gives pleasure, it's primed for life. Once the initial substance a person was addicted to has been stopped it can react, perhaps mildly, to anything else that stimulates the pleasure center of the brain. The brain remains addicted.
Could it be that the physical addiction has been dealt with, but the psychological addiction remains? Is it cross addiction?
Take care.
Sparkles.

[el burgo]

Swims opinion on the question at hand is that the answer is yes. Although an addict has recovered from an addiction the addict tends to replace this with another substance. If the addict has recovered fully and remains clean that person is still an addict and must remember that they are still susceptible to relapse. Swim believes addiction is like turning on a light switch in your brain that can never be turned off.
Just Swims opinion
regards

[miggeth]

My gorilla read that abusing most substances changes a persons DNA permanently, he doesn't think that makes them addicts though.

[cra$h]

By my definition, an addict is one who cannot control the cravings, or impulses to get high, ultimately leading to abuse of a drug, or using recklessly enough to lower the quality of life.

getting that aside, one can go from user, to addict, to user/sober. You are no longer addicted once you can control those cravings, and learn to resposibly use, and if you can't handle that, learn not to use at all. So once an addict, yes, you're going to have some nostalgic memories, but it doesn't mean that you go back to the actual addiction. Getting to the point, no, you can become a non-addict after an addiction.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent addition to the thread..good information about the actuall definition of addict

[Harryblue]

SWIM believes that you had to learn to become an addict, SWIM wasn't born craving heroin, in fact he had no idea what it would even do until he tried it because he was around some people who also wanted to try it.

SWIM learned how to be addicted, stayed addicted for 6yrs and then learned how not to be addicted.
Once he'd learned how not to be addicted he went and got on with his life, occasionally drinking alcohol and smoking the odd spliff.

The 12-step recovery model is the most destructive and incestuous thing ever invented, SWIM believes people have died because they actually believed that tripe.

[Oxymorphone]

For quite a long time SWIM was addicted to painkillers of all sorts, any he could get really. He didn't think of anything but getting a hold of more of them. He spent all his money on them and would steal them from his mother and even broke (used a key) into his grandmothers house to get them.

They were pretty sad and pathetic days for SWIM, but he broke his addiction on his own. He still occasionally does the very same things and enjoys them very much, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, methadone, yummies. But the key factor is self control. It doesn't matter what the substance is, being addicted to one doesn't make one addicted to another, all that matters is controlling the urge to .. well, feel "it" again. I'm not talking about physical addiction clearly, as that clearly does depends on the substance. But being your own moderator.

Alcohol and Marijauna could be seen as a gateway but honestly one can become psychologically addicted to those as easily as almost anything. SWIY just needs to remember to use control... SWIM realized he was the one in charge of whether he was an addict or not. It isn't easy, sometimes, to not do something daily and look forward to those things a little too much, especially if they're easily available... but he believes everyone "could" safely use drugs if only they would practice some self control. It's unfortunate that many of the "everyone"'s that he knows don't seem to possess much of that...


I believe SWIY has to force him/her self to endure the pain/discomfort/outright boredom if one plans on enjoying any substance. The farther one goes without controlling his or her habits the worse that pain/discomfort/etc will be. It's control SWIYself a little now and still enjoy your crutches in moderation, or go overboard and let them become vices.

I'm really not sure if I'm being clear here, and likewise I'm not sure if anyone has said this already as I didn't read all the replies.. I'm a little pissed off, or maybe just anxious and impatient today.

I just read the subject post and decided to give my two cents. SWIM tells me lots of stuff. =)

Reputation Comments on this post:

self control is key, words of the wise right there

[cyndi]

With swim, yes she has failed the casual addict test over and over. She is just a binge user so there is no middle ground for her. Some of us are just like that sadly. Also using other substances seems to bring swim to her doc everytime, something to watch out for.

[Oxymorphone]

It isn't easy to find a middle ground, that's true. Sometimes SWIM thinks he wouldn't manage as well if he had easier availability. A lot of people would argue there's no such thing as a middle ground, just a slowly building addiction. Maybe they're right... Self control may only go so far and maybe it's only a matter of time.

But SWIM figures there are harder things than restraining himself from pleasure or in cases of withdrawl, relief. Denial? nah. Ignorance? maybe.

[guntroll]

Nigga D hopes not. D thinks that it's not a disease, but a sickness. If one was shooting up ten times a day like some people on Intervention, D would stay away from drugs for a long time. It depends on how bad the addiction was and one's personality.

Heroin, from what D gets, is just something you need to be off of for a while. Something like meth (not so bad cravings or risk of OD), takes longer because of how much it affects the brain.

One who was an addict has a higher chance of not controlling themselves on another drug. Weed-tweaks do exist. People who cry over weed if they can't get it. If one who quit doing H wants to start doing other drugs, the best advise would be to start on soft drugs no more then once or twice a week; making sure that they aren't slipping back into old habits.

Nigga D goes to AA, the main thing he dissagrees with is how they make seem factual that one can't do drugs again or they WILL go back into addiction. This is not true, they do have a higher chance then someone who didn't, but they aren't completely hopeless. If they're addicted to smack and change to weed, they are going to grow a dependance on that. The best way is to stay sober long enough period so that one has no desire for them, then allow themselves back slowly into the water. If they really want to use their substance of choice one day and practically need it, they should go get another, softer substance so they can distract themselves or go do something exciting so they can distract themselves.

It's best if they don't, but we all have to make some risks.

Whomever commented this is dumb. Ofcourse one can OD on meth. It's less likely then on H though, but one can OD on any hard drug.

Reputation Comments on this post:

False information here. Doing meth can be risky and there is a chance of overdosing. Changing from heroin to weed will...

[CrookedEye]

SWIM has been able to use other drugs successfully for years after ending an addiction, with heroin and methadone. He even began to use a lot less drugs, and develop healthier habits, after he had an iboga experience. When someone wants a change or wants something bad enough, they can figure out a way to get it. That is how SWIM beat addiction, by being fed up, and finding a way to free himself.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good to point out that it's got to be what you want, if not, you'll never quit.

[Vonn]

Imo, no two people are the same when it comes to addiction. People become addicts for various reasons, and whether they can finally develop a healthy relationship with a drug is completely up to them. So yes, I believe it is definately possible for a person to stop one subtance and then start a new substance in a healthy way, learning from their mistakes and watching for familiar patterns.

However, I also believe that some people are more prone to addiction than others, whether this is a personality trait or a learned behavior I'm not sure, but as you would know a lot of people can be cross-addicts, and just switch substances but keep the same unhealthy habits and thought patterns. Also people can quit a substance for years but still be an addict, and then take it up again from where they left off.

So, it ultimately depends on the person. If you can just watch yourself and have learnt from past mistakes then anything is possible

[ex-junkie]

swim has had methamphetamine and heroin addictions. she has not taken any opiates since she quit methadone, and for very good reason. she values her straight life too much.

on the flipside, she has taken methamphetamine without becoming addicted to it. im sure if swim used it regularly she would probably create another addiction, so her approach to using methamphetamine has been to obtain the smallest amount possible, take it early in the daytime to avoid staying up all night, keep hydrated and take it on a full stomach. swim has never had a come down or stayed up all night when shes done this, she also hasnt been distressed when the bags all smoked. she is sure that if she was silly enough to inject methamphetamine, she mightnt be so lucky to get away with the blue moon dabble....

in saying that, her methamphetamine use has been no more than 4 times a year- once every 3 months. she used to look forward to doing this, however 6 months has passed this time without any use. this is due to the immense feeling like crap whilst under the influence, and not wanting to waste $100!

swim has had the odd ecstasy tablet (approx 3 over the past 3.5 years). she has smoked weed maybe 5 or 6 times also in this time. she also had 1.5 herbal ecstasy tablets a few months ago- she took one tablet and decided it was too much, she gave half a tablet away, and a few weeks later took the other half.

swim was a full blown addict back in the day, so her motto is quite simple. with heroin/any opiates its not worth the risk b2b swim doesnt have the urge to feel numb anymore. as for methamphetamine, if you take it regularly you will get hooked. you have to know and respect your limit... swim wont consume enough to get her high for any more than 4-6 hours...

pills, weed and alcohol arent a problem for swim. she doesnt feel the urge to redose with pills or even the meth, because she doesnt take enough when she does them.

Reputation Comments on this post:

informative post, and good advice.

[cra$h]

If you think you have a potential to becoming addicted, this lengthy post might help you out

This is gonna sound fucked up, but it worked for swim.

Over the summer he developed a strong psychological dependence for opiates, doing just enough to keep from physical addiction, and always pushing the dose. The fucked up part is that he PURPOSELY let himself slip into the junkie mentality. Either spending all efforts on a fix, or crying in the corner wrapped in a blanket listening to dope songs. Then after a couple months of that, he simply stopped. And for a good 2 weeks or so he was going through hell. Didn't even leave the house, didn't tell people he's self-detoxing, just disappeared.

Now why the hell would anyone become an addict on purpose? Simple. It's all about respect. By hitting a mini-rock bottom, he learned how to respect and manage the drug. By doing this he saw what a stupid fuckin chemical can do to you and learned to keep his head strait. Now the initial intentions was to quite drugs (except for psychedelics) all together, but that didn't last. Now he uses probably just as much, if not more. The only difference is that if he knows he ain't gettin a fix that day, it's what ever. Not a big deal. It still pisses swim off when a deal falls through though, just like every drug and non-drug situations. Looking back to swim's previous mindset, he realized that he was being a bitch. Trying to live a horrible lifestyle and being completely fake. By wrapping his head around a pill, he realized how narrow minded and essentially useless he had become, and how people don't like associating themselves with those who only have drugs on their mind.

Lesson is: To all you kids out there dabbling with drugs and thinking you have an addiction potential, learn to respect your drug. The only way swim's found to do this is to completely surrender yourself to it and let it show you how it can rip you apart. By doing this at the early stages, it'll be a lot cheaper, and a lot easier to pull yourself back up.

Disclaimer: This isn't going to work for everyone, and might actually be worse by taking the following advice. This worked for swim, but he's a very unique character and can guarantee it won't for everyone. If you consider putting the aforementioned advice into practice, THINK. Think long and hard about what you're about to do, but more importantly WHY you're even considering this. If you think you're becoming an addict, QUIT NOW. Swim has made a lifestyle choice to include drugs in his life, most likely forever. It's a commitment stronger than marriage really, and it's better to quit while you're ahead as opposed to when shit really hits the fan.

Wow, told ya it's gonna be lengthy, but hope it got someone's wheels turning.

Reputation Comments on this post:

all drugs must be treated with respec, good to point that out.

[guntroll]

There's also two kinds of alcoholics.
With Genetic history: "My dad used to get drunk and beat my mom. My mom left him and started drinkin' a bunch herself, both of her parents drank. My dad's father died of cirrhosis at 56, and my cousin drank himself to death. Now, I have 14 days sober"

Other causes: Bipolar, depression, mania, panic disorders, enviromental triggers, etc. "I would, would just get scared and I couldn't do anything except hide until I got half that bottle down. Then after that, it was like what ever was scaring me is gone!"

Swim is the latter, which is a massive spectrum and the two do often mesh. It must be the same for other drugs. Swim thinks that the first one fits the "once an addict always an addict" and the other (once outside issue is solved) is "Once an addict... now I'm not". But, in neither case is that completely true

If you were a perfectly normal individual and was on a 3 month business trip to Costa Rica and started up on coke and heavy drinking because you realized that everyone that you're dealing with after the meetings goes to bars and does lines. So you do the same, and have a ball (pun!) and party with them almost everyday. When you go back to the your home/ family in Utah. You'll have a much easier time quitting then someone who only has friends who do drugs constantly, came from a bad upbringing and has no job or valuable skills. Even if you used for the same amount of time.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice analogies and good points on diff. types

[Swimster]

"My gorilla read that abusing most substances changes a persons DNA permanently, he doesn't think that makes them addicts though."

That scares the hell out of me, anyone else? Does anyone agree with this?

[guntroll]

Practically impossible. If they were able to change DNA, we'd be having treatments to cure Down-Syndrome.

[Swimster]

Originally Posted by guntroll

Practically impossible. If they were able to change DNA, we'd be having treatments to cure Down-Syndrome.

lol, you just blew my mind. Thats exactly what came to my mind. But still, swim would NEVER use anything again if it played with DNA. So if anyone believes this then tell me and why. Not to get off topic, btw. Lets stay straight, but maybe one reply would be nice or similar.

Swims parents always have acted strange, and they used to abuse things like cocaine i believe. (so iv'e heard rumor)

[LysergicButterfly]

Originally Posted by Swimster

lol, you just blew my mind. Thats exactly what came to my mind. But still, swim would NEVER use anything again if it played with DNA. So if anyone believes this then tell me and why. Not to get off topic, btw. Lets stay straight, but maybe one reply would be nice or similar.

It was a nice little myth, I believe that they came up with to prevent people from taking LSD.

Here is a quote:
"Doesn't LSD cause chromosonal damage and other genetic defects?

This is a myth, originating from a single flawed study in the 60s which exposed cells in a petri dish to massive concentrations of the drug. In the same experiment, caffeine and aspirin caused greater chromosonal damage"

Search "LSD Myths" it's in the first link to come up.

SWIY has nothing to worry about when it comes to drugs and damage to chromosomes.