CWE - Cold Water Extraction of codeine

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by CHEMDUDE

tone extracts paracetamol/tylanol..the rest is simple science..read MSDS'S of para and codeine

She understands that, but since she can just as easily extract the codeine using water, she's confused as to why somebody would chose to use a more-expensive, volatile solvent instead.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by Tortoise

She understands that, but since she can just as easily extract the codeine using water, she's confused as to why somebody would chose to use a more-expensive, volatile solvent instead.

When swiy do a "normal" cwe you will get a lot of Paracetamol in the water too.
Swie uses capsules with 30mg codeine and 500mg paracetamol and dissolves them in 2ml water for each capsule. That way if swie would do a 50 pills extract in 100ml water he would still get over 1gr paracetamol (1gr dissolves in 70ml at 21º) in that liquid. The results would be 1500mg codeine and more than 1gr of paracetamol.

If swiy did a toluene wash in the last phase then they would clear the paracetamol too.
But if you do a acid/base extraction it would also work.

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by Ethyl

When swiy do a "normal" cwe you will get a lot of Paracetamol in the water too.
Swie uses capsules with 30mg codeine and 500mg paracetamol and dissolves them in 2ml water for each capsule. That way if swie would do a 50 pills extract in 100ml water he would still get over 1gr paracetamol (1gr dissolves in 70ml at 21º) in that liquid. The results would be 1500mg codeine and more than 1gr of paracetamol.

If swiy did a toluene wash in the last phase then they would clear the paracetamol too.
But if you do a acid/base extraction it would also work.

Even if it's true that 1g dissolves in 70ml at 21º. (Although Bette challenges you to try to dissolve 1g of pure paracetamol in 70ml of water... virtually imposible), Bette does her CWE's on near-frozen solution and filters it in the fridge. The temperature is at most 4º, and the solubility is far lower at this temperature.

BTW.... 50 pills? What does Swie need 1500mg of codeine for??

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by Tortoise

Even if it's true that 1g dissolves in 70ml at 21º. (Although Bette challenges you to try to dissolve 1g of pure paracetamol in 70ml of water... virtually imposible), Bette does her CWE's on near-frozen solution and filters it in the fridge. The temperature is at most 4º, and the solubility is far lower at this temperature.

BTW.... 50 pills? What does Swie need 1500mg of codeine for??

Swie uses codeine almost daily, and that way he has to make less extractions.
Swie doesn't use it in doses above 400mg alltought, he considers using that much a waste.

[CHEMDUDE]

is that 3 times swim has said this or what?

[CHEMDUDE]

tone makes the whole extraction cleaner..para/tylanol is bad shit,best to make sureand rid as much of it as podss..peace..c_d

[CHEMDUDE]

by the way,swim would rather not use solvents that destroy the verry planet we live on,but my liver is delicate as it it is and needs all the protection it caan get..swim used to drop 15 30/500 para pills twice a day and justfor good measure drop 8/9 or 10 nur***n+12.5 mg codeine at the same time...swim is suprised he is not dead yet..prob won't be long though...c_d

[Tortoise]

Bette Midler has used a very straight-forward CWE extraction process many imes and never had any problems. She understands that 1000mg or less of APAP is comlpetely harmless for he liver so she is happy to ingest up to this much with each CWE.

She did an experiment once; she went to the shop and bought a pack APAP capsules. That's basically pure paracetamol in a removable plastic capsule. She put 500 mg into about 100ml of water and found that hot, warm or cold, there was absolutely no way all that APAP would dissolve. Impossible. She added heaps more water (up to 1L) and found that still, a vast, vast majority of the APAP was very visible and totally inable to pass through a coffee filter. She therefore concludes that if her CWE end product has no obvious particles in it, it is very safe to drink, even if it is a little cloudy.

Another possible experiment would be to dry the end product of a CWE. She doubts there'll be any more than 1000mg of solid.

[metallicbluebutterfly]

Originally Posted by CHEMDUDE

.swim used to drop 15 30/500 para pills twice a day and justfor good measure drop 8/9 or 10 nur***n+12.5 mg codeine at the same time...swim is suprised he is not dead yet..prob won't be long though...c_d

Hey Chemdude brother, good day to you. Would you please elaborate on this issue for me here? I have taken a quote. I am interested in what you regard as unsafe in the codeine concoction that you take, and why you need to avoid it.

Kind regards.
Mbb

metallicbluebutterfly added 16 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

A Nibbles...

This is taken straight from wikipidia: Paracetamol toxicity is the foremost cause of acute liver failure in the Western world, and accounts for most drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand.[2][3][4][5] In 2008 a study conducted in 31 countries on over 200,000 children indicates that infants who are given paracetamol may be at an increased risk of developing asthma as children.[6]

Please note, note my words.
If you have a problem with my posts, please report them to management or shut up. Your antagonistic are annoying and distracting. No spoke to you in the first place, I didn't refer to one of your posts before you lashed out. I am here to LEARN as I said. So, if along the way, if I feel the need to highlight the extra risks, I will. Read through this thread again, and see if you can spot the people with compromised livers. You only get one. Revere life.

Peace to all. I will try to stick to this topic if some will indulge me the favor.
Mbb


To all that is trying to EXTRACT your paracetamol, THIS is why.:

from Wiki

Adverse effects
In recommended doses, paracetamol does not irritate the lining of the stomach, affect blood coagulation as much as NSAIDs, or affect function of the kidneys. However, some studies have shown that high dose-usage (greater than 2,000 mg per day) does increase the risk of upper gastrointestinal complications such as stomach bleeding.[42] Paracetamol is safe in pregnancy, and does not affect the closure of the fetal ductus arteriosus as NSAIDs can.[43] Unlike aspirin, it is safe in children, as paracetamol is not associated with a risk of Reye's syndrome in children with viral illnesses.[44]
Like NSAIDs and unlike opioid analgesics, paracetamol has not been found to cause euphoria or alter mood in any way. While paracetamol and NSAIDs may damage the liver, they do not pose a large risk of addiction, dependence, tolerance, and withdrawal.[citation needed] Paracetamol, particularly in combination with weak opioids, is more likely than NSAIDs to cause rebound headache (medication overuse headache), although less of a risk than ergotamine or triptans used for migraines.[45]
In 2008 the Lancet published the largest study to date on long term side effects of paracetamol in children. Conducted on over 200,000 children in 31 countries, the study determined that use of paracetamol for fever in the first year of life was associated with a 46% increase in the risk of developing asthma symptoms when aged 6–7 years. Higher doses and more regular use of the drug are associated with a greater risk of developing asthma; up to a three-fold increase for heavy use. Furthermore, paracetamol use, both in the first year of life and in children aged 6–7 years, was associated with an increased risk of symptoms of rhinoconjunctivitis and eczema.[6]
[edit]Toxicity

Main articles: Paracetamol toxicity and Analgesic nephropathy
Excessive use of paracetamol can damage multiple organs, especially the liver and kidney. In both organs, toxicity from paracetamol is not from the drug itself but from one of its metabolites, N-acetyl-p-benzoquinoneimine (NAPQI). In the liver, the cytochrome P450 enzymes CYP2E1 and CYP3A4 are primarily responsible for the conversion of paracetamol to NAPQI. In the kidney, cyclooxygenases are the principal route by which paracetamol is converted to NAPQI.[46] Paracetamol overdose leads to the accumulation of NAPQI, which undergoes conjugation with glutathione. Conjugation depletes glutathione, a natural antioxidant. This in combination with direct cellular injury by NAPQI, leads to cell damage and death.[47]
Paracetamol hepatotoxicity is, by far, the most common cause of acute liver failure in both the United States and the United Kingdom.[5][48] Paracetamol overdose results in more calls to poison control centers in the US than overdose of any other pharmacological substance.[49] Signs and symptoms of paracetamol toxicity may initially be absent or vague. Untreated, overdose can lead to liver failure and death within days. Treatment is aimed at removing the paracetamol from the body and replacing glutathione. Activated charcoal can be used to decrease absorption of paracetamol if the patient presents for treatment soon after the overdose. While the antidote, acetylcysteine, acts as a precursor for glutathione helping the body regenerate enough to prevent damage to the liver, a liver transplant is often required if damage to the liver becomes severe.[2]
[edit]

[CHEMDUDE]

to swims mind,anything that can remove even just a little extra para is good in my books.but swim is in a different situation then others with his liver being what it is.swim wish he found this site a long time ago.
harm reduction is a rare thing on sites and all you swims out there seem right on the ball with it.swim thanx swiT for all the good info on said subject..peace.c_d

[kritikal]

Hey i was just thinking that as sodium chloride can lower the freezing point of water that perhaps it could be used in a filtration process to allow the water to still be liquid but allow the unwanted to solidify? I'm uncertain as to whether the salt would also lower the crystallization temperature of the unwanted analgesic.

If this could work then maybe an in freezer filtration could be possible. Although you would end up with salt as a by product i'm sure it would not make it taste too much worse than it already does!!

[Tortoise]

Good point, but probably not woth it seeing as paracetamol is non-toxic in low levels such as those remaining in a CWE.

[wreckreational]

Swim would like to know can this method be applied to loratab 10's? If not does anyone know the proper method (a method for percocet 5's would also be handy).

[wreckreational]

sorry should've read more and used se found the info swim needed thanks

[sketchedout11]

can you tinfoil it?

[Ethyl]

For that codeine base would be the thing to have.
BTW, codeine has less abuse potential if smoked/snorted compared to oral.

[darkglobe]

Originally Posted by Ethyl

For that codeine base would be the thing to have.
BTW, codeine has less abuse potential if smoked/snorted compared to oral.

Before I go - I REALLY wouldn't recommend smoking it!

[darkglobe]

Right - time for me give this thread a good bumping, methinks... so - *bump*.

Right, that over with...

Cold Water Extraction Basic Do's and Don'ts (Mainly Don'ts!)

When attempting to separate Codeine Phosphate (well, usually Codeine Phosphate) from a Paracetamol/Acetaminophen combination, a CWE is the way to do it.
Below I have listed a few of the more important do's and don'ts, and with some a reason why is also listed.

(I will not re-post a detailed CWE instruction set here, as I have posted it elsewhere on the site, so please use the search engine to avoid asking unnecessary questions and filling DF with duplicate topics.)

Do's
Make sure you're METICULOUS with hygiene - many chemical processes go tits up due to carelessness (sp?)

Use a SENSIBLE amount of water:
Too little, it will taste even more unpleasant, and you may have to little water for the Codeine to properly dissolve.
Too much, and you may end up with Para/Acet dissolving (although I'm not convinced of this, it's better to be safe than writhing on the floor while your liver packs in!).

Use a suitable filter, and - whatever you use - USE IT PROPERLY! Improper filtration = To put it bluntly, imminent death, or at least imminent pain. Or probably both.

Don'ts
Okay, admittedly these are just the binary opposites of the above, but re-iteration is better than expiration!

"Guess" (don't even "guesstimate" unless you have enough CWE's udner your belt to do so) ANY quantities. I cannot stress how important a bit of caution can be for your health and wellbeing.

Get impatient. My friend was guilty of this one. He couldn't wait for the solution to cool in order for the Para/Acet to precipitate out of the solution - he ended up having his stomach pumped, and as I was there in the hospital with him, I can safely say it DIDN'T look pleasant.

Conclusion, and my 'boring' lectures again...
Be careful, be methodical, be happy, let SWIM enjoy his/her drug use as safely as possible. Hell, if the substances have risks, you don't wanna add more. And Para/Acet is not a friendly substance! (Incidentally neither is too much Ibuprofen).

[madmatt3d]

hey, swims solution usually always ends up a cloudy white, not clear white.
swims previous solution is not clear at all, despite multiple filterations.
is this a bad thing?

[ZugZug]

SWIM has noticed that a cwe made from paracetamol (acetaminophen) is always a little cloudy whereas a cwe made from aspirin is very clear. To my knowledge as long as there is no visible chunks both are safe.

[darkglobe]

I was walking once upon a time and I came across the following information.

It was entitled: "Advice", and it began.... "Dear SWIY,"

SWIM has never CWE'd aspirin, only Paracetamol, so SWIM'S no help for the Aspirin one.

BUT... it's fine for your solution to be SLIGHTLY cloudy. If there's any significant amount of solid shite floating about, feel free to filter and cool it again. It won't hurt your codeine count, but if it puts your mind at rest, it honestly can only do good.

Just don't keep CWE end product too long, and don't expose it to much light, as strong light for extended periods of time will breakdown the Codeine (SWIM'S not certain of how or why, but believe that it does).

[pankreeas]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most straight forward way to determine how much acetaminophen you are left with. Why not weigh the amount of pills before hand, then weigh the remaining extract goop (after it has fully dried of course). Of course one cannot be sure it's the only substance in there but it's a way to make sure you have not ingested unsafe amounts of paracetamol.

[greenapple]

not sure this is the right place to ask (haven't seen this anywhere before) but SWIM wonders if anyone here knows how long the codeine mixture lasts after CWE...

only because SWIM like to be prepared

like does it go bad or is it toxic or anything?

[Klaus]

Originally Posted by greenapple

not sure this is the right place to ask (haven't seen this anywhere before) but SWIM wonders if anyone here knows how long the codeine mixture lasts after CWE...

only because SWIM like to be prepared

like does it go bad or is it toxic or anything?

Swim finds that Codeine/paracetamol CWE turns brown in a couple of days .

Swim don't know if this is harmful though .

Keeping a CWE is never a problem for swim though as he always consumes it all immediately.

It pisses swim that he cant get his mits on codeine/aspirin where he resides

[Tortoise]

It will last a very, very long time if Swiy puts it in the freezer