CWE - Cold Water Extraction of codeine

[ShadyMilkman]

user has removed his posts

[bogumil]

I found that in another forum. Thought, some might be interested. I dont know if it is that new, but it looks like a nice variation to me.


Improved coldwater extraction


[ ...


Whilst messing around with codeine paracetamol tablets I tried the following: Added 96 10mg codeine 500mg+ rubbish tablets to 200ml cold tap water and left for 10mins or so to dissolve CP. I then decided to warm the solution before filtering. So I heated the solution in a hot water bath to about 45 or 50 deg.C. I then filtered the solution and it filtered in a fraction of the time it usually does with cold water. This gives a clear solution and without vacuum filtration you only lose about 5ml instead of 1/3 filtering cold solution. This is then placed in the freezer until it almost freezes, by which time almost all of the paracetamol dissolved, crystalizes out in lovely large needle shaped crystals. This near frozen solution is then filtered, which is also fast as paracetamol crystals are now large. This solution is now safe to drink containing approx. 5mg/ml,codeine phosphate or you can extract the codeine base and convert etc. see other threads.I found with the cold extraction and cold filtration method clogged up filters as the paracetamol was so powdery this method seems to work better and the final product was stronger than anything Ive had previously keeping everything cold?? But dont go over 60deg.C as CP apparently degrades then! ...]





And this is a similar method that someone sent in a reply to the above. Interesting how he drinks the product:


[...This is how I pretty much do mine. Except I don't use cold water first, nor do I ever use boiling water (nor does this one but it's something that needs to be pointed out, don't use boiling water). My method (depending on number of pills, I use 20ml hot + 20ml cold for every 20 tablets 40ml hot + 40ml cold for 30-40 tablets.). Read on and you'll see why I use +20ml cold, etc.
My last extraction I used 30 pills (which I had left from a 100 pill bottle of 8mg Codeine + 500mg Ace/Para).

I put 40 ml of hot tap water in a small plastic cup along with 30 tablets to disolve. I left them for a bit and then stirred with a fork. When there was no tablet chunks and everything was a white water paste like substance I put the solution in the freezer for about 15-20minutes. I also put in 40 ml of cold tap water by itself in the freezer. While this was happening I got a cup (helps if you can see through it a bit) which is long and narrow (but still holds about 250-330ml) I put a coffee filter about half way in so that I could also keep it in place with rubber bands. After 15-20 minutes was up (doesn't really matter if solution freezes too much) I put the solution into the filter setup. I then got my 40ml of straigh cold water I put in the freezer into the cup that container the solution and swirled it around so it got every last bit and then put this in the filter aswell. I then put the filtering solution somewhere for about 1 hr (at the minimum or until all the water has been filtered, 2-3 hours may be better). Make sure it's somewhere where it isn't going to be knocked over and make sure the coffee filter isn't going to fall in. After about an hour I have a look and you shouldn't see any liquid on top at all but a white (or whatever the colour of your tablets were) solution that is a solid paste like sludge. Underneath should be a clear solution. I sometimes squeeze the filter (without breaking it if possible) to get as much of the remaining liquid out as possible, sure abit of ace/para will come through and the solution will go a bit cloudy but the amount of ace/para will be small compared to what's in the white sludge. You can either drink this right now or wait a bit till later (read on to find out why it might be better to wait).

If you can't wait to drink it this is how I drink it:
To drink I put in about the same amount as the filtered solution with grapefruit juice and top it up with soda water. The soda water helps to make it absorb faster in your system and the grapefruit juice helps with codeine potentiation to morphine. It may taste a little bitter but not as bad as drinking it on it's own. Orange juice and soda would also work but will not potentiate the codeine.

If you are worried that you didn't get all the codeine out the solution what I sometimes do is re-do the extaction. I get all the solid white sludge and put it in the same solution cup I used before and mix it with 40ml hot tap water, mix it up and put the solution and another 40ml cold water and repeat the process.

I guess you could do it as many times as you like ;-). Weather you get more codeine or at least a little out of each extraction or if it even is worth it is beyond me but you could add the liquid of the first extraction and subsequent extractions all together to get the maximum amount of extracted codeine. 80ml per extraction isn't alot of liquid to down compared to poppy ... tea.



...]Edited by: bogumil

Reputation Comments on this post:

awosme!

[fnord]

wow that sounds like a great improvent,thanks bogumil!
i think this old thread deserves a good
*BUMP*

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by bogumil

...If you are worried that you didn't get all the codeine out the solution what I sometimes do is re-do the extaction. I get all the solid white sludge and put it in the same solution cup I used before and mix it with 40ml hot tap water, mix it up and put the solution and another 40ml cold water and repeat the process.

I guess you could do it as many times as you like ;-). Weather you get more codeine or at least a little out of each extraction or if it even is worth it is beyond me but you could add the liquid of the first extraction and subsequent extractions all together to get the maximum amount of extracted codeine.

Bad idea right there!

The reason SWIY uses a small amount of water to begin with is to minimise the amount of APAP in solution that he ingests (the APAP he CAN'T see). If he drinks his re-extraction along with with his initial extraction he is now doubling the amount of APAP he ingests.

Swiy is wise to re-extract if he wants to be thrifty, but SWIM believes he should save the second yield of solution for a seperate occasion. It'll only be a 'lite' high though.

[Diapuch]

A friend of mine, was speaking to me, and he was wondering if hypothetically, using a combination of different substances in a CWE could end up being safer...

He asked me, if perhaps using a codeine and aspirin combo, an acetaminophen and codeine combo, and an ibuprofen and codeine combo would be "safer" because there's less of each product, and from my understanding the three products are not dangerous when combined.

Of course, I didn't know the answer to his question, so decided to ask you fine people here.

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by Diapuch

A friend of mine, was speaking to me, and he was wondering if hypothetically, using a combination of different substances in a CWE could end up being safer...

He asked me, if perhaps using a codeine and aspirin combo, an acetaminophen and codeine combo, and an ibuprofen and codeine combo would be "safer" because there's less of each product, and from my understanding the three products are not dangerous when combined.

Of course, I didn't know the answer to his question, so decided to ask you fine people here.

That approach would only work if your friend was to do seperate extractions so that there is as little water as possible for each compound to dissove into. But that starts to get tedious...

Furthermore, ibuprofen and aspirin should be considered quite similar drugs and shouldn't really be mixed as they have additive adverse effects.

[fnord]

i dont think a paper napkin is the best to use but if its all you got use it,how much harder could it be to pick up some Coffey filters(1-4$us)?much better results and less wasted product that would be lost in the napkin,you also wouldent run the risk of the napkin breaking.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by fnord

i dont think a paper napkin is the best to use but if its all you got use it,how much harder could it be to pick up some Coffey filters(1-4$us)?much better results and less wasted product that would be lost in the napkin,you also wouldent run the risk of the napkin breaking.

I think you're right but it's unavailable where i live. But i let the APAP settle first and try to put the liquid without even putting the APAP in the filter.

[SuprSonik]

Hi everyone, this is SWIM's first post here, and SWIM thought he'd share a "recipe" of his for masking the taste of a CWE. He decided to experiment one day as he figured there was no way he could possibly make it taste worse than it already does.

He had about 100ml of water containing approximately 200mg of codeine;He added a teaspoon of sugar and some chocolate syrup (the type you'd pour on ice cream or use to make chocolate milk) and stirred it up. He stood there with a soda in hand to chase it down in case it tasted as bad as usual, but to his surprise, it actually tasted pretty good. Beforehand he could barely keep the CWE down; it was a huge deterrent from wanting to use it.

It doesn't seem to affect the experience, although it does seem to come on a bit slower when using this method.

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Bringing the conversation forward

[HabitualCriminal]

Ok, swim has been thinking about the method of CWE and has a question which may seem stupid but swim has searched all over looking for some sort of answer and cannot find one. Anyway, all the CWE guides swim has found say to start with warm water, mix in the crushed pills, stir and cool to say 4 degrees and then filter. Swims question is, why start with the hot water, if the APAP is less soluble in cold water and the Codeine is more soluble, why not just mix the crushed pills in ice cold water and filter straight away? Has anyone ever tried this?

Swim realises there must be a reason for it but would just like it explained. Thanks.

[coryt]

now lets say that you had completly seperated the APAP from the hydrocodone. . . . .in its liquid form could swim put the liquid in a pyrex dish and do what you call a water pull. . . . slowly evaporating the liquid on a hot plate until the water was gone and all the hydrocodone was on the bottom of the pyrex dish in in a powdered form? i am just speculating I have never done this and would like some feedback from some of our chem friends here. . . .thanx

[MrJim]

Yes, as long as the temperature is kept low.
And on another note - You haven't incriminated yourself, I just hope you did such consciously. We are sticklers here about not incriminating yourself, because it comes back as a poor reflection of this board.
But enough of the rules, you only have 3 posts, so WELCOME!

[Diapuch]

Originally Posted by MrJim

Yes, as long as the temperature is kept low.
And on another note - You haven't incriminated yourself, I just hope you did such consciously. We are sticklers here about not incriminating yourself, because it comes back as a poor reflection of this board.
But enough of the rules, you only have 3 posts, so WELCOME!

SWIM wants to know if this is also possible with codeine?

Swim also wants to thank Tortoise for possibly saving his liver.

[joh1200]

Swim has a bottle of generic tablets (325mg acetaminophen, 8mg Codeine, and also some caffeine {which swim is not worried about})

Swim's said that they have seen different ways to do the CWE and they want to know: for the first step, do you dissolve the crushed pills in warm or cold water? As stated before, why dissolve in warm water when the acetaminophen is not as soluble in cold water and the codeine is.

Swim just wants to know the BEST technique.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Why ask a question that has already been answered in that very same thread?

[oxyaddict420]

Originally Posted by joh1200

for the first step, do you dissolve the crushed pills in warm or cold water? As stated before, why dissolve in warm water when the acetaminophen is not as soluble in cold water and the codeine is.
Swim just wants to know the BEST technique.

Swims opinion is that the crushed pills dissolve alot faster in the warm water, thus speeding up the process.. Then Swim still has to put the mixture into the fridge or freezer.(Swim does not reccomend using the freezer unless in a real hurry) Using the fridge until it is as cold as it can possibly get is the best Swim has found.(takes about 30-40 min. depending on fridge setting)

BEST OF LUCK

[flipper70]

Theres alot of posts on here about CWE and swim has read them all! She is still a bit confused though - tried it and it didnt work not sure why. Dont mean to bore all swiys but basically swim used 12 nurofen+ in small glass crushed up - added 40ml warm water ( swim wasnt sure 24ml would be enough to dissolve codeine) dissolved and put in freezer for 10 mins till cold. then swim put two coffee filters over a glass and tipped in the mixture ( rinsed glass with a little cold water to get all mitture out? ) and waited half hour. then swim squeezed filter till mixture inside was dry ish.the liquid was cloudy and tasted bitter ( as i think it should) but swim got no high at all. wondering where she went wrong? Is it coz its ibuprofen? swim is on citalopram which does block codeine sometimes, but if swim takes the whole tablet ( say 6 n+) she gets a slight high, needs to up dosage coz of citalopram but cant take more coz of the crap so she needs to cwe. can any swiys tell her why its not working?

flipper70 added 3 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...

swim forgot to ask also can you cwe effervescent tablets??

[tryptamaster]

swim allows temp to cool to a minimum of 10 celcius and if it was left standing still u can basically see all the apap at the bottom of the glass. swim has recently jsut been basically pouring off the cloudy liquid and stopping early to avoid any of the settled apap from going into the mix. does anyone know if this is safe? wat percent of apap should fall to the bottom at udner 10 celcius?

[meaculpa]

swim doesn`t know temperature as she just sticks it in the freezer until very cold. she then filters solution leaving sludge behind. she then does the whole process again with sludge i.e adds small amount of warm water to sludge, stirs it then sticks it if freezer then filters again. then filters first and second passes a third time before consuming.

[magicmik]

Would one conduct a cwe of dhc, in the same way as detailed many times (and the way swim has done many times) with codeine.

Have people already done this?

[nibble]

Originally Posted by magicmik

Would one conduct a cwe of dhc, in the same way as detailed many times (and the way swim has done many times) with codeine.

Have people already done this?

Yes, the very same process would apply.

[honourableone]

SWIM is soon going to try and make his own buchner flask( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchner_flask ). This could make filtrations incredibly quick and allow more filter paper to be used. If SWIM succeeds, this may be something that everyone who carries out CWEs regularly should look into.

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NICE FIND!

[northbelfast]

hello people,only new here but my friend read all the posts about cold water extraction and read them again,john just extracted the codeine (he hopes) from 4 paramol (contents dihydrocodeine tartrate 7.46 mg and paracetamol 500mg) usin 2 sets of 2 plied coffee filters (purchased at a very well known supermarket for £1.59p for 40 filters) john used 10ml water,filtered the first time and squeezed the gludge,then filtered for a second time without squeezing,had a lovely clear liquid.but that only makes about 25mg codiene by the time john loses some through filtering yeah?? whats your thoughts on this? john was just experimenting this time,but john usualy take 3 or 4 kapake 30/500mg at night for a buzz so thats about 12 to 14 paramol he has to extract from yeah??? also,say it doesnt turn out,will that much paracetamol do him harm? or is he OK as long as he follows the method i have just wrote above?

sorry if this is wrote badly or explained badly,
great to be here,cheers folks.

[CHEMDUDE]

crush the pills,wash with acetone (para is sol in tone,ware as codeine ain't)dry,add water and chill till about 10 degrees C.any para will havextalised in cold conditions(well at least enough that thepara won't kill your liver) para has a half life of about 2hrs.just a snipit of info there.drink the cold disgustingly bitter fluid and relax`n`enjoy..it don't get much simpler then that.
one can also do an a/b on the water extrct,but as above,don't expect all the codeine to be in there..be safe..peace..c_d

[Tortoise]

Originally Posted by CHEMDUDE

crush the pills,wash with acetone (para is sol in tone,ware as codeine ain't)dry,add water and chill till about 10 degrees C.any para will havextalised in cold conditions(well at least enough that thepara won't kill your liver) para has a half life of about 2hrs.just a snipit of info there.drink the cold disgustingly bitter fluid and relax`n`enjoy..it don't get much simpler then that.
one can also do an a/b on the water extrct,but as above,don't expect all the codeine to be in there..be safe..peace..c_d

Interesting. Bette Midler would like to know what the point of using acetone is though....

[CHEMDUDE]

tone extracts paracetamol/tylanol..the rest is simple science..read MSDS'S of para and codeine