CWE - Cold Water Extraction of codeine

[ShadyMilkman]

user has removed his posts

[bogumil]

I found that in another forum. Thought, some might be interested. I dont know if it is that new, but it looks like a nice variation to me.


Improved coldwater extraction


[ ...


Whilst messing around with codeine paracetamol tablets I tried the following: Added 96 10mg codeine 500mg+ rubbish tablets to 200ml cold tap water and left for 10mins or so to dissolve CP. I then decided to warm the solution before filtering. So I heated the solution in a hot water bath to about 45 or 50 deg.C. I then filtered the solution and it filtered in a fraction of the time it usually does with cold water. This gives a clear solution and without vacuum filtration you only lose about 5ml instead of 1/3 filtering cold solution. This is then placed in the freezer until it almost freezes, by which time almost all of the paracetamol dissolved, crystalizes out in lovely large needle shaped crystals. This near frozen solution is then filtered, which is also fast as paracetamol crystals are now large. This solution is now safe to drink containing approx. 5mg/ml,codeine phosphate or you can extract the codeine base and convert etc. see other threads.I found with the cold extraction and cold filtration method clogged up filters as the paracetamol was so powdery this method seems to work better and the final product was stronger than anything Ive had previously keeping everything cold?? But dont go over 60deg.C as CP apparently degrades then! ...]





And this is a similar method that someone sent in a reply to the above. Interesting how he drinks the product:


[...This is how I pretty much do mine. Except I don't use cold water first, nor do I ever use boiling water (nor does this one but it's something that needs to be pointed out, don't use boiling water). My method (depending on number of pills, I use 20ml hot + 20ml cold for every 20 tablets 40ml hot + 40ml cold for 30-40 tablets.). Read on and you'll see why I use +20ml cold, etc.
My last extraction I used 30 pills (which I had left from a 100 pill bottle of 8mg Codeine + 500mg Ace/Para).

I put 40 ml of hot tap water in a small plastic cup along with 30 tablets to disolve. I left them for a bit and then stirred with a fork. When there was no tablet chunks and everything was a white water paste like substance I put the solution in the freezer for about 15-20minutes. I also put in 40 ml of cold tap water by itself in the freezer. While this was happening I got a cup (helps if you can see through it a bit) which is long and narrow (but still holds about 250-330ml) I put a coffee filter about half way in so that I could also keep it in place with rubber bands. After 15-20 minutes was up (doesn't really matter if solution freezes too much) I put the solution into the filter setup. I then got my 40ml of straigh cold water I put in the freezer into the cup that container the solution and swirled it around so it got every last bit and then put this in the filter aswell. I then put the filtering solution somewhere for about 1 hr (at the minimum or until all the water has been filtered, 2-3 hours may be better). Make sure it's somewhere where it isn't going to be knocked over and make sure the coffee filter isn't going to fall in. After about an hour I have a look and you shouldn't see any liquid on top at all but a white (or whatever the colour of your tablets were) solution that is a solid paste like sludge. Underneath should be a clear solution. I sometimes squeeze the filter (without breaking it if possible) to get as much of the remaining liquid out as possible, sure abit of ace/para will come through and the solution will go a bit cloudy but the amount of ace/para will be small compared to what's in the white sludge. You can either drink this right now or wait a bit till later (read on to find out why it might be better to wait).

If you can't wait to drink it this is how I drink it:
To drink I put in about the same amount as the filtered solution with grapefruit juice and top it up with soda water. The soda water helps to make it absorb faster in your system and the grapefruit juice helps with codeine potentiation to morphine. It may taste a little bitter but not as bad as drinking it on it's own. Orange juice and soda would also work but will not potentiate the codeine.

If you are worried that you didn't get all the codeine out the solution what I sometimes do is re-do the extaction. I get all the solid white sludge and put it in the same solution cup I used before and mix it with 40ml hot tap water, mix it up and put the solution and another 40ml cold water and repeat the process.

I guess you could do it as many times as you like ;-). Weather you get more codeine or at least a little out of each extraction or if it even is worth it is beyond me but you could add the liquid of the first extraction and subsequent extractions all together to get the maximum amount of extracted codeine. 80ml per extraction isn't alot of liquid to down compared to poppy ... tea.



...]Edited by: bogumil

Reputation Comments on this post:

awosme!

[Love_N_Bruises]

Was wondering if anyone uses the cold water extraction?SWIM used to use it quite a bit to extract the para out of co-codamol. But then SWIM got some pills with 30mg C in..and didnt bother extracting...NOT a good idea as SWIM was taking alot of them..and often. Anyway now even the tiniest bit of para makes SWIM puke my guts up for hours on end..not fun.. :| SWIM wants to try the cold water extraction again, but is kinda pretty paranoid that not ALL the para will be extracted out...Is there a way to test? If SWIM filtered it twice would that be a way to check it was pure? Thanks xxx

[acexnx316]

There is no way to test if SWIY has gotten all of it out; unless of course SWIY owns a lab or has frequent access to one.

Anyway, there is really no way SWIY will get 100% out at any time, no matter how many times SWIY filters it.

However, SWIY's best bet is to definitely continue doing what SWIY is already doing and filter it 3-4 times; and maybe even more if SWIY feels like it. This way it will ensure that SWIY will be getting all of it out that SWIY possibly can.

And if it still makes SWIY puke, try and lay off em for a while, maybe 3-5 days or so. Might be healthier to go that route. Just a thought though.

Pz.

[gotxp]

after your initial extraction, you could theoretically simply re-chill it. This would cause any remaining aspirin/tylenol to precipitate out, then refilter. But, nontheless like acexnx316 said, there is no way to get all of it out, just most.

[darkglobe]

Erm.... gotxp... It's not my intention to pick holes in other people's ideas...

I don't think re-chilling it is practically worth the effort. Theoretically (as you rightly said), it it possible.

To the OP... here are some tips. I will warn I have limited knowledge of basic chemistry! Please correct me if I am wrong, people.

1. METHODS OF FILTRATION
Your chosen method of filtration will greatly affect how much Paracetamol is in your end product. The best methods are below:

1.1) Lab Grade Filters
Okay, not everyone has access to these, but if you are or know somebody at school... Acquire some from there. Get somebody at school to buy them. Serious, if you need them for 'experiments', what's wrong with that?
Aside from a local school/college/university, there are plenty of companies who will sell these harmless products to individuals. Check your yellow pages.

1.2) Coffee Filters
These work almost as well as the lab grade variety, and will filter considerably faster. The only downside is accuracy. If you follow acexnx316's advice and filter numerous times (3-4 is ideal), then you should be fine. This may sound stupid, but after searching local supermarkets I can't actually find any...

2 THE TECHNICAL STUFFS
How you perform your CWE, and your level of caution and cleanliness, will also affect how 'clean' your end product is. Below are some tips on the general method and uses of equipment.

2.1) Crushing Your Pills
I know I am making this sound like rocket science - and it isn't - so for that I apologise. It's worth noting that such a piss-easy process can be turned to shit with the first sign of carelessness.
Much of SWIM's experience with Co-Codamol pills has led him to believe that this is the first part where things can start to go tits up. This is what he tells me....
Always use a pill crusher or some form of enclosed/sealed thing to crush your pills in. I know that's not strictly scientific, but what I basically mean is don't get crummy white powder all over your hands/work area. KEEP EVERYTHING CLEAN!

2.2) Dissolving Your Crushed Pills
This is where many opinions will differ. I'll just tell you how SWIM does it. Unless you're looking for the highest possible yield from your pills, just follow this:
1. CAREFULLY put your pills into chosen container.
2. Add water about 30 degrees centigrade to it. Don't use too much. Let's say about half a glass for say 10 Co-Codamols.
3. Stir until as much pill is dissolved as possible.
4. Cool your mixture to approx 4 degrees centigrade. Just make sure it's COLD.

2.3) Filtering The Shit Out Of It
Now then... sorry for the longwinded crap before I got to this. This is how SWIM does it:
1. Fold your chosen filter into the correct shape.
2. Make sure your filter fits like a glove into say, a funnel.
3. Pour your mixture in, ensuring NONE escapes the filter. Pour it all in, settled shit and all. This will take a while longer, but ensures more Codeine
4. Ignore number 3 if you get paranoid about Paracetamol content.
5. Remove filter CAREFULLY, ensuring no unfiltered content gets into Codeine water.
6. Repeat filtration, remembering to throw all 'infected' stuff away before proceeding.

3. OTHER
Well... How fuckign long was that?!
I'm sorry. Re-reading your post reminded me you only wanted to know about Para content. Oh well, hope it helps.

But yeah, to ensure minimal Paracetamol content in your finished product, be CLEAN! And try to acquire some lab filters. As mentioned before, 3 or 4 filters is a good idea. Also, re-chilling won't hurt. I personally believe it won't do wonders for reducing Para content, but it's definitely worth a shot.

...Who thinks I should cut the size of my posts?

...*Raises own Hand*....

Sorry, dude.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	nice post, good & safe manual
	It is useful info. with regards to saftey

[mbu37]

Any thoughts on how someone might extract codeine from effervescentPara preparations? It seems like all ingredients dissolve but I that may work out to be a plus.
I'm a newbie here so please forgive me if these subject has been discussed. I did a quick search and didn't see it.

mbu37

[Forthesevenlakes]

The ingredients may all dissolve at room temperature, but cooling the water in a freezer for a bit should cause any APAP to precipitate out. After cooling the water, pour the solution through a filter. If SWIY gets a bitter white residue on the filter, its probably the APAP. However, SWIM is NOT absolutely sure CWE would work on effervescent preparations, so don't take SWIM's word as gospel, SWIM doesn't want anyone getting their liver damaged or worse yet, expiring prematurely.

[Klaus]

The trouble swim encountered was he also got the Bicarb in the finished product which upset swims gut a little.

[darkglobe]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Sodium Bicarbonate. Actually, it remedies wind, heartburn and indigestion

SWIM tried CWE on Effervescent Paracetamol/Acetaminophen + Codeine tablets. No side effects were noted. Then again, he did play it safe and take 4 (@ 500mg Para/Acet each, 30mg Codeine each).

I wouldn't guarantee it.

[JapanHorrorUncut]

Can SWIM use something else to filter the mix? Last time SWIM tryed SWIM got a stomach ache. SWIM isn't new to opiates, so SWIM guessed it was from Acetaminophen. Any hints on CWE?

[riotpack]

Does anyone know what the max dose of ibuprofen is if you decide to not CWE, SWIM takes 1200mg Ibuprofen when taking codeine and hasn't had any side effects, but is this amount dangerous?

[Nature Boy]

1200mg of ibuprofen is the maximum standard dose for a day. In medical practice, doses of 3200mg can be used reportedly. High doses involve a whole plethora of nasty side effects ranging from gastrointestinal ulceration to diarrhea. By all means, perform a CWE if at all possible. Ingesting high doses of ibuprofen spells trouble.

[mbu37]

Hi,

Can anybody give swim, a ballpark figure regarding the percent of APAP that is removed during cold water extraction? Swim realizes there are many variables involved but if the procedure is followed closely about how much APAP would be left if swim started with 8 tablets that have 500mg tylenol and 30mg codeine each? Would the tylenol level be dropped to say 1g? or less?
Swim, is just trying to get the general parameters.
Swim, would like to move beyond 8 tablets, to 10 or 15 but needs to have some idea of how much tylenol remains - not to mention loss of codeine.

Any input will be passed to swim.
Thanks

[Abrad]

UTFSE this has been covered many times before.

I'm bored and thought I would just post a working CWE procedure here.

EXTRACTION

This procedure will separate codeine, hydrocodone, or oxycodone from aspirin, APAP (acetominaphen, paracetamol), or ibuprofen, but it won't remove caffeine. Be a good cook and read the whole recipe before beginning the process.

Crush the pills up up very thoroughly. You can use a sturdy pill or vitamin bottle and a ramekin for this. If you're extracting 10 pills, a quarter cup of water is more than enough (50 ml if you have a measuring cup with mls on it is good). With 15-20 Vicodin ES, 100 ml of water works well. The more water you use, the more you will end up having to take and the more difficult it is to get the bad stuff out, so don't use too much. Conversely, too little water will give you just a paste that can't be separated. If you're going to extract more than one dose, then measure it in some way. You can, for instance, do up four or ten doses, just use some measure, like an empty eye-drops or herbal extract bottle.

Dissolve the crushed pills in the water; stir or shake till all the clumps are gone. Pour into the bottom of a small bowl, cover, and put it in the freezer. Let it get really cold, but not so cold it freezes (some binders seem to get really swollen if they freeze). This shouldn't take that long, since it's shallow. You will see the APAP actually crystallize out and you will be able to feel it as grit when you stick your finger into the liquid above the sludge and then rub your fingers. (But even if it doesn't do that, it works anyhow! Read the info about how it works to see why.) Take the liquid out of the fridge.

For a filter, use a piece of cloth about the size of a washcloth. The cloth can be any closely-woven cotten, preferably undyed. The back of a dress shirt or a piece of plain muslin works well. Tshirts are usually too loosely woven to work. Soak the cloth in cold water while you are waiting for the APAP crystals to form. Put the cloth in a coffee filter cone or just drape over the edges of a small bowl, glass, or jar. When the solution is ready, pour everything, solution and glop, into the cloth. Bring up the ends of the cloth and squeeze the solution through. This will produce a fairly cloudy solution. Now filter that cloudy solution through a coffee filter that has first been wet down with ice water. While that is filtering, scrape the glop left on the cloth into the bowl and add another 50-100 ml of water to go through the whole process above again and get more good stuff out of the glop. When the solution in the freezer is ready, pour it through the cloth, squeeze out, and filter that through a coffee filter wet down with ice water, just as you did the first batch. Add the two more or less clear solutions together.

If you want even purer stuff with less APAP, first reduce the volume of water by evaporating some of it in a warm oven or with a hair dryer. Take a couple of APAP crystals from your sludge, put them in the liquid to seed further crystallization of APAP, and repeat the chilling and filtering process.

You can drink your solution. Remember if you have made up more than one dose at a time to split it up before drinking it. Also, take it on an empty stomach for max absorption, or see the section on Potentiation to really increase the effectiveness of the opiate. Opiates are very terrible [in fact, one person reported continuing the extraction until the water was no longer bitter as a way to get out every mg of opiate]. You can eat a piece of chocolate or a cracker spread with butter first to kill the taste (and the fat will help the narcotic be absorbed), you can mix it with sugar or Kool-aid, or you can load it into a plain syringe (without needle!) and shoot it up your butt. (Rectal absorption is better and faster than oral, and a British medical text reports that the body is more tolerant of APAP taken rectally.) Whatever your means of ingestion, enjoy, and your bod will thank you. If you have any comments on or emendations of this procedure, email me. Please note that I did not write the article by Doc Ivo Sandor.

For you doubters, why extraction works-

Extraction works because APAP, ibuprofen, and aspirin are hardly soluble in water, especially when it's cold, whereas opiates are very soluble in water.

Here is solubility information on APAP. This tells us that according to the Merck Chemical Index, APAP is: "Soluble in methanol, ethanol, dimethyl-formamide, ethylene dichloride, acetone, ethyl acetate; slightly soluble in ether; very slightly soluble in cold water, considerably more soluble in hot water; insoluble in petroleum ether, pentane, benzene."

Here is the information on ibuprofen. This tells us that according to the Merck Chemical Index, ibuprofen is: "Relatively insoluble in water; very soluble in alcohol, and most organic solvents."

And according to this version of the MSDS on aspirin, it is dissolved in room-temperature water at the rate of 1 g/100 g/water.

That is 1000 mg per 100 cc or ml of water (about 3 ounces) at 37 C--and the colder the water, the less aspirin dissolves.

In contrast, opiates are very soluble in water. Extraction works because the water dissolves opiates but not the aspirin, APAP, or ibuprofen. Extraction has a solid basis in chemistry, so quit worrying about it.

[fnord]

wow that sounds like a great improvent,thanks bogumil!
i think this old thread deserves a good
*BUMP*

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by JapanHorrorUncut

Can SWIM use something else to filter the mix?

Swie use just a paper napkin. The final solution is clear.

[fnord]

i dont think a paper napkin is the best to use but if its all you got use it,how much harder could it be to pick up some Coffey filters(1-4$us)?much better results and less wasted product that would be lost in the napkin,you also wouldent run the risk of the napkin breaking.

[Ethyl]

Originally Posted by fnord

i dont think a paper napkin is the best to use but if its all you got use it,how much harder could it be to pick up some Coffey filters(1-4$us)?much better results and less wasted product that would be lost in the napkin,you also wouldent run the risk of the napkin breaking.

I think you're right but it's unavailable where i live. But i let the APAP settle first and try to put the liquid without even putting the APAP in the filter.

[SuprSonik]

Hi everyone, this is SWIM's first post here, and SWIM thought he'd share a "recipe" of his for masking the taste of a CWE. He decided to experiment one day as he figured there was no way he could possibly make it taste worse than it already does.

He had about 100ml of water containing approximately 200mg of codeine;He added a teaspoon of sugar and some chocolate syrup (the type you'd pour on ice cream or use to make chocolate milk) and stirred it up. He stood there with a soda in hand to chase it down in case it tasted as bad as usual, but to his surprise, it actually tasted pretty good. Beforehand he could barely keep the CWE down; it was a huge deterrent from wanting to use it.

It doesn't seem to affect the experience, although it does seem to come on a bit slower when using this method.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Bringing the conversation forward

[HabitualCriminal]

Ok, swim has been thinking about the method of CWE and has a question which may seem stupid but swim has searched all over looking for some sort of answer and cannot find one. Anyway, all the CWE guides swim has found say to start with warm water, mix in the crushed pills, stir and cool to say 4 degrees and then filter. Swims question is, why start with the hot water, if the APAP is less soluble in cold water and the Codeine is more soluble, why not just mix the crushed pills in ice cold water and filter straight away? Has anyone ever tried this?

Swim realises there must be a reason for it but would just like it explained. Thanks.

[somniferic]

I know that this discussion is over, but SWIM saw it and thought oh shit! Are SWIY's aware of the sodium content of effs.? 300mgs+ per tab, x SWIY's recreational dose is NOT SAFE. Even at low 10 tabs, that's over 3gs of salt man, be careful saya SWIM, it don't take much to mess up off of sodium, the ol' organs don't like it when they are flooded with salt. Incidently, SWIM does 90 tabs, by CWE regularly, imagine the sodium(salt) content in that, which by the way, cannot be filtered. Someone comtradict SWIM, make me feel better about it! SWIM did 20 eff. tabs CWE (freezer technique), took one sip, then tipped that shit away, SWIM aint' that desperate!

[somniferic]

Also, SWIM has told me that THE best filters are those little 4-ply disposable hankies (tissues), tear a ply off carefully, then proceed as one would with previous filters, rubber bands etc... enjoy!

[coryt]

now lets say that you had completly seperated the APAP from the hydrocodone. . . . .in its liquid form could swim put the liquid in a pyrex dish and do what you call a water pull. . . . slowly evaporating the liquid on a hot plate until the water was gone and all the hydrocodone was on the bottom of the pyrex dish in in a powdered form? i am just speculating I have never done this and would like some feedback from some of our chem friends here. . . .thanx

[MrJim]

Yes, as long as the temperature is kept low.
And on another note - You haven't incriminated yourself, I just hope you did such consciously. We are sticklers here about not incriminating yourself, because it comes back as a poor reflection of this board.
But enough of the rules, you only have 3 posts, so WELCOME!