Experiences - no visuals while tripping

[ima-do-proprio-ser]

The only time Durutti the Anarchist Monkey had visuals with acid,he was sallyflipping(s.div + lsd). Never ever had he with acid only. Different from his monkey friends.
Any chances on why?

thank you

[RaverHippie]

It's hard to have a standardized dose of illicit substances; you never know if the tab has enough to invite strong visual hallucinations.

And for a matter of nomenclature a "-flip" entails taking one substances in addition to MDMA so salvia and LSD would not get this sort of designation.

[ima-do-proprio-ser]

but is it 100% true that the monkey did not had visuals because the doses where not high enough ?
or could it be anything else?


about the nomenclature,thanks for the information: it's just that the monkey,as a Magical Chaoist, needed a good name for the combination, or it would sound dull for unexperienced ears.


thanks a lot

[Satellitehopper]

Originally Posted by ima-do-proprio-ser

but is it 100% true that the monkey did not had visuals because the doses where not high enough ?
or could it be anything else?

SWIM would assume it's this. Unfortunately, everyone reacts completely differently to LSD- SWIM has to take large amount's of LSD (around 5 tabs) to even begin to have OEV's. However, SWIY could react completely differently.

SWIM's advice- buy a large amount at once (a 10 strip would be nice), and start upping the doses until you feel you are experiencing what you want out of this amazing drug.

best of luck

[Baked.]

SWIM has done LSD about 10 times. SWIM isn't sure how strong his acid is but his first time he took 3 hits on one sugar cube. SWIM laughed and had a great time, but had nearly no visual. Objects just looked cool. His second time SWIM took 4 hits and tripped harder then he has all time. Last time SWIM tripped he took 9 hits and it was pretty visual but the second time SWIM did acid he tripped the hardest on 4 hits. It all matters what you see, how long between the last time you did acid, how potent the acid is, and if the batch is good.

[cra$h]

Is this swim's first trip? If it is, it's one of three things: 1. weak acid 2. expected too much (you don't see dinosaurs flying about) 3. just not prone to hallucinations. Now if it is number 3, swiy would have a great body high, but the visuals wouldn't be quite up to par, which is swim's story. CEV's definitly, but OEV's, not so much. Like said before, things just look more vivid/interesting

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by cra$h

1. weak acid 2. expected too much (you don't see dinosaurs flying about) 3. just not prone to hallucinations

There is, of course, a number 4: That the monkey is taking something else that attentuates the effects of LSD

SSRI's are the usual culprits

[ninjaned]

oddly swim has exactly the opposite reaction to hallucinogens, more visuals than feelings, he'll feel completely sober but see amazing things... swim thinks that its just different for every person... although as swicrash said it could be weak acid or expectations.

[Garethn]

swim finds that your setting and mood before the trip can be a big contribution to how the trip folds out swim also finds trying too hard... looking for them... can kill the visuals for example swim likes to go on a big walks down the woods just as the sun gose down for sum reason swim has better visuals this way rather than just sitting in sum1's living room trippin during the day....

[cra$h]

visuals are more intense durring the night time, for any drug though. But if you're trippin for visuals, I really hope you have a horrible trip, for that's not what psychedelics are about, and the kids bored on the weekend who trip just for a laugh disgust me.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Why add the negative. No need for a derisive and patronising comments.
	that dosn't make any sence! and it's not nice to wish hateful things on other people sum1 should smack your bot bot!

[intellaesthetic]

Originally Posted by cra$h

visuals are more intense durring the night time, for any drug though. But if you're trippin for visuals, I really hope you have a horrible trip, for that's not what psychedelics are about, and the kids bored on the weekend who trip just for a laugh disgust me.

Swim disagrees. He always found that the visual aspect of any trip is much better in the sunlight. He's never experienced anything even close to it at night, but as mentioned previously to each his own.

[ima-do-proprio-ser]

thanks for all the replies.



i don't really want visuals,it's just that I have some theories on why don't I have visuals,but this is a complete different story,and unnapropriate for virtualities.


thanks folks

visuals are more intense durring the night time, for any drug though. But if you're trippin for visuals, I really hope you have a horrible trip, for that's not what psychedelics are about, and the kids bored on the weekend who trip just for a laugh disgust me.

even though you seem to try to stand for good things here,you do it the wrong way,thus standing for disgusting stuff.
I think you should stop this virtual flaming or whatever might it be,and use in better ways your creation power.

[fraaga]

Could be psychological resistance. Try larger doses to break through or take a couple of beers or a low dose of a benzodiazipine before hand to loosen up before hand. Also you could try a walk in nature or other relaxing activites before hand.
Another thing is are you comfortable with the people that you are tripping with, are they people you can let your guard down with? SWIM's penpal found that he could'nt quite 'get there' when he was with people that he was'nt imtimate with.

[salviablue]

Take care with satellitehoppper's advice:

One hopes what was meant by the post was to try two together (one was already tried to no visual effect), if no oev`s, wait a few days (swim finds a 3 complete day wait best), then try 3, wait a few days, then try 4 etc....

Make sure they are all from the same batch (strength can vary greatly between batches), are kept well (dark, dry, cold and air tight place - lsd, rather unstable) and don`t wait too long i.e. years!

'Tolerance' builds quickly, but drops to virtually 0 after a few days. Thus one could end up trying and trying, each adjacent day, wasting acid, money and sanity (this is how swim has seen serious mental orders develop, mainly from squandered food/beer/drugs "tokens").

Also don't drop 1, wait for the peak, then drop 2, wait for the peak, drop 3, wait for the peak.........as this will almost certainly lead to a VERY BAD week (or two as my friendly ghost can testify).


Incidentally, one of the baron red`s herrings finds bonging salvia during an lsd trip very enjoyably rewarding. A hit or two when Hofmanns child knocks on the door, invites her in very nicely, a couple more during the zenith, makes lucy`s diamonds really sparkle, and a few at the return journey, gives one last hidden spectacle just when one thought the tour was ending, before heading home.

[Satellitehopper]

Originally Posted by salviablue

Take care with satellitehoppper's advice:

One hopes what was meant by the post was to try two together (one was already tried to no visual effect), if no oev`s, wait a few days (swim finds a 3 complete day wait best), then try 3, wait a few days, then try 4 etc....

Make sure they are all from the same batch (strength can vary greatly between batches), are kept well (dark, dry, cold and air tight place - lsd, rather unstable) and don`t wait too long i.e. years!

'Tolerance' builds quickly, but drops to virtually 0 after a few days. Thus one could end up trying and trying, each adjacent day, wasting acid, money and sanity (this is how swim has seen serious mental orders develop, mainly from squandered food/beer/drugs "tokens").

Also don't drop 1, wait for the peak, then drop 2, wait for the peak, drop 3, wait for the peak.........as this will almost certainly lead to a VERY BAD week (or two as my friendly ghost can testify).


Incidentally, one of the baron red`s herrings finds bonging salvia during an lsd trip very enjoyably rewarding. A hit or two when Hofmanns child knocks on the door, invites her in very nicely, a couple more during the zenith, makes lucy`s diamonds really sparkle, and a few at the return journey, gives one last hidden spectacle just when one thought the tour was ending, before heading home.

Salviaswim, thats exactly what SWIM was talking about. Thank SWIY for adding those important points and clearing that up.

[cra$h]

Salvia and LSD is one hell of a combo. But if you're inexperienced with lsd, wait until the peak subsides. You'll find that some acid can completely warp the salvia trip into something more.... real. Atleast in swim's experiences

[Garethn]

Originally Posted by cra$h

Salvia and LSD is one hell of a combo. But if you're inexperienced with lsd, wait until the peak subsides. You'll find that some acid can completely warp the salvia trip into something more.... real. Atleast in swim's experiences

fair play swim dosn't like the idea of this combo salvia trips can be savage from time to time and as for combining the too swim would probably find him self in some dark places swim has sucked many a shottie of savlia and has had a few trips on seperate occations but the 2 together i think would be a bit much for this swimmer but of course everyone is different....

[Gradient]

Very little to add to an already comprehensive thread, but I feel that salviablue is on to something regarding the difference in tolerance resulting from repeated serotonergic psychedelics vs. kappa-opioid based salvia events. Depending on how frequently the individual in question indulges in an LSD experience (or any serotonergic psychedelic, for that matter), tolerance to any psychedelic will develop faster than any kind of tolerance to salvia - given comparable dosing patterns. To reiterate an already stated sentiment; pace with LSD is significant when focusing on visual activity, as this seems to be one of the first sensory distortions to which individuals become tolerant.

I'd expect (please correct me if i'm incorrect here!) that the individual likely ingests compounds with serotonergic activity more frequently than those with kappa-opioid activity, given the fact that a spectrum of drugs have activity at serotonergic receptors while really only salvia divinorum elicits activity at kappa-opioid receptors. This spectrum extends from SSRIs, as Jatelka suggests, to MDMA and any phenethylamine, and even amphetamines and cocaine. In other words, prior drug experience might likely play a role here; are other components of the experience observed, such as other forms of synesthesia? Are there are other sensory distortions occurring - such as auditory, haptic (touch), or olfactory (taste & smell)? As fragga suggested, some individuals might be more receptive to distortions of distinctive sensory modalities. Oftentimes, experiences are comprised of periods of sensory distortions shifting from modality to modality. Perhaps it might prove interesting to explore the distortions generated by LSD alone by isolating & focusing on specific senses by closing eyes, using headphones/earplugs, floating around in water (careful!), etc... It might be prudent to suspend any other drug ingestion with serotonergic activity (other than SSRIs, as abrupt termination can be dangerous).

I'm not sure that any of the closest chimps I know would tend to agree with fraaga's suggestion; with a sufficient dose, LSD is a pretty profoundly altering substance - and GABA agonists tend to be used as agents to terminate the experience to enable sleep or relaxation after a psychedelic experience(both alcohol and benzodiazepines are GABA agonists). Taking drugs to enable an experience with another drug is generally an undesirable route, and isn't likely necessary here. That said - I've heard some other chimps do indeed enjoy light benzodiazepine doses during their experience, so this is certainly subjective territory.

Additionally, in my chimp's prior experiences - serotonergic-based visual activity tends to be far more subtle compared to the kappa-opioid based salvia visual distortions. While both are distortions of already-existing visual stimuli in the environment, serotonergic visuals seemed to be based in nuances of the physical and perceptual characteristics of activity in the field of vision - while visual distortions from salvia can become so confusing & overwhelming that acquaintances have actually said they went blind for the duration of the effects. It's possible that, if one is expecting visual distortions reminiscent of salvia divinorum from LSD, it's likely that the experience is going to be underwhelming - as the nature of the visual components of each drug are arguably incomparable at moderate doses. As cra$h suggests, visual activity from salvia tends to be far more significantly altered than those from common doses of LSD.

It also might be significant to note that salvia divinorum is typically smoked, while LSD is generally administered buccally/orally. The effects of smoked drugs will inevitably be more intense than those of the common methods of ingesting LSD. It's unrealistic to expect visual activity from an orally ingested drug to be comparable to that of a smoked one.

[Baked.]

SWIM disagrees with whoever said that they get more visuals at night. When I trip at night, I still get visuals, but I'm usually outside in the dark on someone's deck just smoking a bowl and cigarettes. SWIM usually gets visuals on what he can see, but he just doesn't see all that much. Most the time he just stares off into the night sky.

[zera]

Swim finds that LSD visuals are "deep" rather than say mescaline visuals which have "breadth." E.g. with mescaline you look at something and kind of the whole field of vision has little twirls going on all over. With LSD you look at something and it appears relatively normal, but you keep focusing and it gets more and more distorted. The longer you concentrate on something (tough to maintain your attention on a head full of acid) the more you are rewarded with crazier and crazier sights.

Swim would suggest a a complex and intricate stationary pattern to look at, and just focus on it for a couple of minutes. Fractals are great for this!

[Songcycle67]

This was sent to me by telegraph from 1934 Switzerland:

Hallucinations can range in varieties. On low doses one would expect to see a bit of things moving in the corner of the eye, maybe some warpage of the environment, a little color enhancement.

Even on high doses the visuals are fairly unimpressive compared to something like Salvia. Salvia actually produces full-blown hallucinations, while LSD produces phenomena more akin to visions or visuals. Often the most intense of these come with the eyes closed, in a dark environment. But you'll never be dissociated from your body and think that flowers are talking to you and such as with Salvia.

Expect to be fully cognizent and aware that you are part of what is happening when you do see them.

A lot of people have to work at it, but it's so worth it. I think LSD has the *best looking* visuals and the biggest variety, and you get to be aware of the reality of what is happening at the same time.


Usually 200ug or so for a new user will illicit all the visuals they need for a lifetime. Visuals, mind you, not hallucinations. To close your eyes and see a huge glowing stained-glass tapestry rippling its patterns all across the grid we call the visiual field and to know that it's happening to the same part of you that goes to work every day or takes a shit...to see something that celestial while fully aware is what makes the experience divine and illuminating at once.

Salvia can't provide the illumination as easily because the person is just taken to a fucked up place for a few minutes and brought back slowly...not much enlightenment to speak of.

And with one swift move, LSD leaves Salvia in the dirt, imho.

[porchy]

SWIM was speaking to someone the other day who said that when they take acid they never really get many visuals, and the quality of the acid wasn't the problem, he just seems to have more headfuck.

[fraaga]

Originally Posted by porchy

SWIM was speaking to someone the other day who said that when they take acid they never really get many visuals, and the quality of the acid wasn't the problem, he just seems to have more headfuck.

If SWIY means headfuck as feelings of paranoia, rigidity, uncomfortable, spaced, etc SMIW thinks this is pschological defences acting against the effects of the drug. SMIW thinks the full psychedelic experinence is yet to be reached by SWIY's friend. SMIW recommends a relaxing safe environment, maybe on a sofa or a bed. Having no pressing matters to worry about, being free the following day. A playlist list made out so you dont have to get up and change the music, maybe darkness or eye shades or dimmed lights. A higher dose could be tried with care. An experienced sitter/friend could be useful, especially if you are not used to the effects.

SMIW said before that a few beers or a benzo beforehand might help but SMIW doesnt encourage it, its just a suggestion to facilitate smooth entry into the trip if nothing else works. Fasting before may give a greater onset of effect.

Finally if SWIY is taking good acid and having no visuals and feeling good and enjoying the experience then just enjoy it and dont worry, but if its a heavy and taxing experience then maybe its resistance or maybe its not the drug for SWIY.

[psylent treatment]

if swiy isn't having a vivid trip there are quite a few possibilities as to why:dirty acid,weak acid,mindset,environment,fearful of letting go(fighting it).there are ways to deal with each:combinations(careful which ones) are the simplest,but meditation,lighting,incense,being with people swiy feels comfortable and safe with are also helpful.if swiy opts for combinations swim wouldn't recommend salvia the first time.swim would try nitrous ballons at the start of the peak as it doesn't rocket swiy into space so much as free swiy's mind from worries/inhibitions.good luck and be careful with mixing.

[Garethn]

Originally Posted by fraaga

SMIW said before that a few beers or a benzo beforehand might help but SMIW doesnt encourage it, its just a suggestion to facilitate smooth entry into the trip if nothing else works. Fasting before may give a greater onset of effect.

also swim has heard if it gose realy wrong valium helps alot...