Health - turning tar into powder

[RHINESTONECOWBOY]

According to my friend, last night he was smoking a chunk of black. He has done this method for quite some time, and has always noticed that after he takes a few good tokes from his piece, it will cool down and turn into a very hard, brittle little chunk on the foil. He decided to experiment with it last night, and plucked it from the foil and dropped it onto a mirror, where he subsequently crushed it and chopped it up into a fine, dark brown/black crystalline powder. even after playing with it for a bit, he couldn't get it back to its original, goopy form. It didn't have its typical mega strong acetic odor to it. This is logical, because as he smokes his normal pieces of H, when he first starts out, the acetic vapor is very harsh, but as the piece is progressively toked, the acetic fades as it's being boiled from the foil.

Now, to get to the punch:

Though this is a very crude example of removing some of the leftover acetic acid from tar, this proves that removing it will aid in turning it into a powder. Swim's point of this, is that acetic acid and its high concentrations in tar are very harmful to the users' veins, bronchial tube/lungs, and the user's body in general! This is the main downside to using tar! So after swim's little experiment last night, this led him to pondering a less crude method to removing a majority of the acetic acid from tar, for the benefit of all users' bodies. The average IV user loses all of his/her usable veins in only a couple months of everyday use. Swim knows a guy that moved from the east coast, where he only did white powder. He has used heroin for 15 years, and until several months ago, when he moved to the west coast, he has all the veins in his arms in tact. Now his only administration options are his neck and his femoral, due to the high acidic content of tar.

If we can discover an easy quick way to rid of most of this acid, the health of many can be preserved!

Just a thought. Be safe, everyone.

~RC

[helene]

Hmm...sounds good in theory.

Originally Posted by RHINESTONECOWBOY

The average IV user loses all of his/her usable veins in only a couple months of everyday use.

Swim knows many swimmers (herself included) who have still got usable veins in their arms after years of daily use. Swim thinks that if one is careful, uses clean (smallest guage possible) works, looks after their veins, rotates sites etc there's no reason for them to wreck their veins in such a short amount of time at all. In fact, swim would go as far as to say that the above statement is largely incorrect.

H

[RHINESTONECOWBOY]

it's largely incorrect if taken out of context, like swiy did.

it's largely correct when returned into the context of TAR use. tar is loaded with acetic acid, which when in contact with the veins of the user, dramatically speeds up the loss of veins. the average everyday tar user uses several grams/day. no matter how much the user rotates arms or anything, there is still a ton of acetic acid entering the veins and damaging them. all west coast tar users end up using their femoral sooner or later.

[OI39]

I lived on the East Coast and used to wonder how people could lose their veins so quickly. That was until I only had tar.

In 6 years all, and I mean ALL the veins I could possibly tap are dead. Femorals, Jugulars, and most recently both my subclavians went. It's easy to say it's because people are lazy and don't rotate, but believe me tar'll take the veins of the most diligent among us in no time flat.

I've tried neutralising the acidity in tar to make the imact less on the veins, but there was always issues with precipitates forming and large amounts of sticky goop coating the cotton. Usually it prevented its being drawn into the rig through the cotton. I think it may've reduced the potency as well.

There's so many different alkaloids that're active in tar, which is what makes it superior to E.Coast powder IMO, and I lived in Philly! I personally would love to hear a way to make tar more friendly on the tubes, while keeping its potency unharmed. Even if it took a moderate amount of kitchen chem I'd do it.

[kailey_elise]

Originally Posted by helene

Hmm...sounds good in theory.


Swim knows many swimmers (herself included) who have still got usable veins in their arms after years of daily use. Swim thinks that if one is careful, uses clean (smallest guage possible) works, looks after their veins, rotates sites etc there's no reason for them to wreck their veins in such a short amount of time at all. In fact, swim would go as far as to say that the above statement is largely incorrect.

H

My best friend lost her best vein (the big one on her left arm, as she's right-handed) on a 5 day visit to Seattle, Washington, USA, shooting black tar heroin while there. At home in New England, USA, she'd successfully injected (white/beige powder) heroin, cocaine & even occasional hydromorphone pills with barely so much as a track mark.

Black tar heroin is REALLY hard on the veins.

~Kailey

[cra$h]

Converting tar into powder would be way too much effort to use on a daily basis, unless swim had literally ounces of H he could convert.

Background- The difference between tar and powder (we'll use h4) is how it's produced. From my understanding, in mexico where just about all of the tar comes from they take the opium and crudely convert it to morphine. This morphine still has a lot of plant fats and other materials in it, which results in a goopy consistancy. Then they acetify it, creating not diecetylmorphine, but 6MAM. This isn't exactly heroin, but it's pretty damn close. Most users can't tell the difference. They're just about equal in potency and which is better is really a matter of personal opinion. Now jumping to the other side of the world, countries like Afghanistan actually use a lot of their opium for legitamit morphine production. This means that they create a pure powder that's medical grade. Then using acetic anhydride (wow I butchered that word! Correction please?) they create heroin. Diacetylmorphine kinda heroin. I would love to know why there's different kinds of this shit, like the tanish h3(?) and the white h4.

To convert tar to powder you would need to remove all that gunk, and acetify using acetic anhydride, nothing else. That's a whole lot of chemestry, probably defatting, and possibly some other techniques used to extract the morphine from opium. Then again, what tar is isn't morphine, or even diecetylmorphine, so conversion would be tough. But what if one would acetify using both acetic acid, and acetic anhydride? Would this change both 3 and 6 hydroxy positions to create a super heroin? Or am I just a dumbass who doesn't know much about chemestry?

[helene]

Cra$h, Might be an idea to copy the above post into the opiate chem forum, the swimmers there would almost undoubtedly be able to provide you with some answers. They're all very good at things like that over there...

H

[rbegoniaz]

Swir can tell swiy that what cra$h says fits with what happened when Swir tried purifying her Tar.Swir had done this many times before,so instead of doing this gram by gram Swir got a quarter/oz.Right from the start she had problems with no reactions etc.Apparently it's that 6MAN jazz.Who knew,anyway Swir lost 7gs.This is to all who have NO idea exactly what Tar does to veins,and would rather go on the assumption that Swius do not take care of the veins.Not only veins but it leaves black track marks,discolors the injection sites just nasty shit.Swir,even when she was a training to be a junkie, was diligent in her vein health and maintenance,and did not reap the rewards of this at all.So please start rethinking this judgement of the misunderstood Tar Babies of this planet.

[RHINESTONECOWBOY]

swim doesn't think it even requires the intense lab work of reconverting the tar into H4... just simply removing some of the acetic acid from the mix would help out greatly! swim stumbled upon a crude version of this by smoking it, and realizing that after several tokes of a large piece of tar, it was no longer goopy, but rather, very hard, and after removed from the foil, could be crushed into a fine powder that lacked a majority of the acetic acid smell. swim also notices that the burn down his throat decreases as he continues to toke off of a piece. this is due to the acetic acid vaporizing from the tar.

swims idea is to get a large amount of tar, and spread it out thin over a pyrex baking dish, and put it in the oven at a rather LOW temp (as to not destroy any or much of the precious alkaloids) for a while to see if some of the acetic acid can be boiled or vaporized from the tar.

after swim's tin foil experiment, he crushed the piece into a fine, BLACK POWDER. swim is convinced that a simple process can remove a good amount of the acetic acid in tar, thus benefiting users of the west coast!!

[east_of_eden]

swim knows nothing about chemistry but being on the west coast aswell is very interested in this, however wouldn't this dilute the strength of the heroin signifigantly?

when someone smokes tar, what's left (the crunchy, black layer on the foil) is the remains with the heroin taken out of it, isn't it?

this is to say, the part that's left will not get you high, so even if someone were to spread it out in a thin layer and try to burn off some of the acetic acid, wouldn't it also be weakening the dope?

just curious, swim would love to know the answer to this.

[g666d]

@crash,
acetic anhydride =
ethanoic anhydride
Ethanoyl ethanoate
Acetic acid anhydride
Acetyl acetate
Acetyl oxide
Acetic oxide

according to wikipedia, also heard it called Anhydrogenous Acetate (i think) and Ac2O

... you did good with your first one!

6mam, from what i understand, sounds easier to produce and apparently 3x potent as diacetylmorphine (or diamorphine, or 3,6diacetylmorphine ). Is important not to acetylate codeine at same time though.

@op, can understand you wanting to remove the acid, and there is a tek called "purifying street heroin", but i don't know if it applies to tar. Is an acid/base extraction, i think. Like someone else said, heroin base is not soluble, have to turn it into HCL or sulphate or something. Not sure about 6mam. Would assume the same. Quite possibly can dilute and precipitate the salt, but really this is above my head, and everything else i have stated i pretty much learned on web, so, yeah. Just ideas.

@oi39, swim read somewhere that someone acetylated codeine as well as the morph when making 6mam, the 6mac put them in hospital, apparently. Can understand people being quiet on this one. There is also story of guy who made fentanyl analogue that gave all his customers permanent parkinsons disease... chemistry can be dangerous if you don't know what is going on. You need to be able to do a melting point test of product at least, swim thinks. Or test on a dog.

[TarBaby]

I don't know why the Mexicans can't purify the morphine from
opium any better it looks like a easy process. I found this link
which takes you step by step from Opium all the way to no. 4:
here it is if you have not seen it already: http://books.google.com/books?id=XhG...heroin&f=false

TarBaby added 1 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

And it's got pictures!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	That is a really interesting article. Thanks.
	Brilliant link!

[Dicemanstyle]

Originally Posted by TarBaby

I don't know why the Mexicans can't purify the morphine from
opium any better it looks like a easy process. I found this link
which takes you step by step from Opium all the way to no. 4:
here it is if you have not seen it already: http://books.google.com/books?id=XhG...heroin&f=false

TarBaby added 1 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

And it's got pictures!

Brilliant Article mate, swim really enjoyed reading that.

Swim also wishes that White Heroin #4 was available in the UK although it would probably end up being cut to fuck but still. Swim does not want to quit until he has managed to get his paws on some of this gear.

Maybe one day when swim is flush he might attempt at converting brown heroin #3 commonly found in the UK into some nice china white baby!!!!!

Still thanks for that excellent article. Thats going into swims favourites.

[TarBaby]

Originally Posted by Dicemanstyle

Brilliant Article mate, swim really enjoyed reading that.

Swim also wishes that White Heroin #4 was available in the UK although it would probably end up being cut to fuck but still. Swim does not want to quit until he has managed to get his paws on some of this gear.

Maybe one day when swim is flush he might attempt at converting brown heroin #3 commonly found in the UK into some nice china white baby!!!!!

Still thanks for that excellent article. Thats going into swims favourites.

No problem. Your very welcome.

[perfectday]

Eating salt and vinegar chips gives me the chills, if i don't have gear supply haha, i noticed this the other day.