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Last night.. This stuff is great, I would definetly
give it two thumbs up.. I had 25 mg, if I get another chance, I'm going
to have to try 30-35.. Good trip, a little nauseau at the end though,
it might have been from taking the capsule on a full stomach...
Last edited by Phenoxide; 14-09-2012 at 05:58.
It took three hours to kick in. I dropped @ 12 am, after smudging the pill, and room, with Sage, Cedar, Sweetgrass, and tobacco,
and then fell asleep for an hour @ 2 am. I woke up and I still wasn't tripping, I started to feel dissapointed.. Within an hour I was
definitely getting OEVs.. I laid down, and listened to some Celtic Cross..
With eyes closed I saw a huge elf village, with huge cathedral looking buildings with rainbows shooting out of them. The rest of the
trip was like the precludes to ego-death, but I don't think I had dosed high enough to go all the way. I listened to Shpongle, and played with my cat.. I tripped heavily for about 4 hours, and had about 2.5 hours of a pleasant come-down.. Towards the end, I tried to smoke tobacco, and started gagging. I threw up some mucus, but I think I was still too high to smoke.
There where no negative side-effects besides the late onset of nausea, but I think that was my own doing. It was truly a wonderful
experience. I would rate it right up there with 2CI, my personal favorite RC.
Okay, here is one from my monkey regarding the non-acetylated version - 4-Hydroxy -n,n-diethyltryptamine HCl:
Bongo ingested 20mg in a capsule on an empty stomach, having fasted all day, at 9:00pm. First alert at approx. 9:15pm. At the 30 minute mark visual patterns started and became very strong - building rapidly. Peak effects resulted by the 50 minute to 1 hour mark. Tryptamine-type patterns took over the entire visual field. Furniture, walls, floor - bending and un-worldy. Very little CEV though. At least for Bongo.
These peak effects continued to past the 3 1/2 hour mark. Then slowly began to taper off. By the 5 hour mark, a +1 state. 6 hours and gone. No notable hangover. Bongo felt fine and fully functional.
Last Analysis: This is the CZ-74 first synthesized by Albert Hoffman at Sandoz in 1958 as the next logical step from his synthesizing the n,n-dimethyltryptamines psilocin and psilocybin. It was then used in the European psychiatric community during the 1960's - most notably in Germany. Interestingly it is only a scheduled substance in Germany today, though it may also be in the UK. Anyone know?
It drew attention as being faster and shorter-acting than it's dimethyl cousins, producing an experience thought to be fast enough and overwhelming enough to break through the defenses of very rigid and resistant individuals. While it certainly is overwhelmingly powerful and quick, my personal feeling is one of dislike. It feels contrived and without a spirit - unlike psilocin/psilocybin. ForBongo it lacks the connection to the Earth. As part Native American,Bongo tends to notice these things. If your monkey is seeking a very fast and powerful visual experience, with no concern for connecting with a spirit plane, this may well be an ideal choice. Bongo had always been interested trying this obscure and poorly documanted substance. The previous reports Bongo could dredge up were very clinical and virually useless regards how it felt to the person/monkey who had taken it under the settings imposed by European psychiatrists. Bongo is glad he has had the chance to experience what was once a mysterious molecule. The curtain has been lifted.
I too find that 4-ACO-DET somehow lacks a 'spritual' element, though I find both the OEV's and CEV's are excellent.
As a matter of interest has anyone else noticed, as I have, that during the peak of the trip (for about 2 hours) it's impossible to pee? I've never experienced this on anything else (thoughI know that some people have this side-effect on MDMA, occasionally with fatal results). For meon 4-ACO-DET it hasn't been a problem, but a bitdisconcerting nonetheless.Edited by: prospero
Interesting compound in my opinion. Unfortunately both (4-ho-det and 4-aco-det) are scheduled in my homecountry so I was never able to get or try.
I read a few things about
the experiments in the 60ties made by a german guy with the name
Leuner, kind of pionieer in the psychiatric and psychological use of Psychedelic. I remember reading that it can produce really profound
experiences in the high dosages (>50mg) and due to the range and the
toxiticity it seems a quite safe substance.
I never read something about the nasal way of it, might safe some material but be also more stronger.
The emotional coolness in the effect of this should help to get easier
trough the trip I would think, but it is difficult to imagine that
feeling on tryptamines. I just know from Keta this feeling of
"okay...this really weird things happen, but I don't care...". Is it
similar with these compounds? Edited by: Dimitri
Nano: Bongo is waiting for the 4-OH-n,n-MiPT to be delivered by Flying Saucer. Bongo will let you know then. Regards lack of emotional response from 4-OH-n,n-DET like ketamine, not quite. You could likely have a rotten bummer on this - but it would be very intellectual and clinical! Hahahaha!! As for what the good doctor Earwig...er...Leuner had to say about pushing the dosage up to >50mg, it is generally agreed that above 25mg the body load is too much. Acts as a stimulant with nervousness and body tremor being a deterrent. Bongo would agree as 20mg was marked by being very alert and aware. Did Dr. Earwig try this at 50mg+ himself? Or just feed it to his patients and note they said "Oh my God!" and they didn't drop dead? Edited by: nagognog2
max experience: 35 mg, AMAZING, almost exactly like mushrooms, bit more visual, disagree with the anxiety statement above, I had none. aesthetic changes (everything is beautiful). good stuff. worth the price tag.
So claimeth Dexter, the great mutant guinea pig from Mars:
~25 mg (1st exp.), nice, mild, slight visuals, timeline (~1 hr up with 1st glimmers at 45 min, peak for about 2-3 hours then quick down over hour or so)
Dosage: 40 mg
Duration: not listed
~40+ mg first alerts in 10 minutes, 15 minutes knew "oh boy, here it comes", half hour stimulating rush, strong visuals (things like water drops on the shower curtain appeared magnified, of great size, finishing getting out of shower became awkward due to a sense of mild confusion); 45-60 minutes very shape-shifty feeling, strong visuals and visual morphing. Sensually tactile, excellent sex. As most tryps seemingly, tendency to hyperthermia.
Notes on physical product: white, fine chalky/flourey powder, (-fumarate form). Since, 3 months storage in dark at room temp, under natural summer heat and humidity conditions with no discoloration/degradation problem as has been reported for other forms.
SWIM asked me a question and i didn't have a good answer for him so I figured i would ask you guys. We were researching on one of our favorite encyclopedia websites, (i don't know if i can use the name so i won't), and we just doing normal research and realized this site said that 4-ACO-DET didn't have a CAS #, i was under the impression that all compounds had a CAS #. Is my friend just not that smart, or is it like a loop hole, or is it just the web encyclopedia not updated. Thanks for you help guys i am sure SWIM will love you for your knowledge.
SWIM has some of the 4aco and 4ho-DET HCl and it has darkened considerably since acquired several years ago. Still seems potent, though. SWIM recently noticed the same with some 4acoMIPT HCl SWIM had - also seems just as potent, but now is dark grey colored. All are stored at cool temp in dark, sealed vials and no humidity. The 4HO-DET salt is almost charged with static and jumps off of the bag when scraped, but sticks like there is static cling. Really annoying product to transfer into a sample bottle.
SWIM never pushed the dosage past 15 mg with this but found it to be similar to the other 4aco's SWIM has tried with better visuals than 4acoDIPT and less empathy / euphoria than 4acoMIPT. Body load between the two with 4acoDIPT being the worst for SWIM. SWIM will hopefully one day revisit this molecule. SWIM fav is still the MIPT series.
SWIM has also found that 4-ACO-DET darkens with age if kept refrigerated. However this does not seem to happen if kept frozen. When kept at room temperature it solidifies into a solid black mass. Received wisdom is that the darkening effect does not affect potency.
"Last night at 9:30PM I retreated to my basement with candles and music and took the 20 mgs of 4-ACO-DET. First off I didn't know what to expect and maybe was expecting something along the lines of 4-HO-MIPT. I guess what amazes me is how different these two substances were. For starters, I tripped for a good 3 hours. It took an hour to kick in and then the next hour was something else. Astounding CEV's. Landscapes, pictures, of a Christmas theme since our house is decorated. Candy cane tapestries that pulled me in. Mushroom type, but a little different. Very beautiful changing dimensional scenes. I was astounded. That was a good solid dose. Any more and I felt like I could lose a grip on reality but just enough to enjoy that thought. I came down by 4 1/2 hours later with some residual visuals. Had some phenibut, kratom, and mulungu tea at 2:00 AM and was asleep by 3:30AM. Then I had to get up at 6:30.
When I pulled it out of the freezer and cut it open my hands were shaking being so nervous. I had to get passed that. I had been depressed (what else is new eh?) the last few days and was looking to get around that. There was some over stimulation and points of sharp anxiety, not quite as smooth as I remember mushrooms. And although I had a few good "ahah!" moments, kind of lacking the insight of a good cosmic mushroom trip.
The sample had been stored for a few years in an airtight jar. I'm not thinking any degradation occured (of which stories I always felt were exaggerated when it comes to tryptamines). Probably a fairy stable compound if stored correctly."
I thought I'd share his story. Sounds interesting. Me? I'm a beer and nuts kind of guy but I do like stories.
Thanks for sharing and welcome to DF. though you indicate this is a secondhand experience, please do not write in the first person. Write about SWIM, labrats, trained monkey, but not in the first person. Not doing so is a violation of the rules.
Appreciate the report on 4acoDET it is not a very well documented tryptamine. SWIM also felt the experience to be rougher around the edges and less introspective than mushrooms, and the visuals fainter. Still an interesting substance. SWIM has found a 4 year old sample airtight at room temp to still be quite potent.
Thanks Snapper, I wasn't quite sure on how to go about posting and thought about that after I sent it. There is a trained monkey that has had a few more to add.
The trained monkey actually had a sample of 4-HO-MIPT stored at room temp for a few years and was still very strong. It's probably important to not expect a weaker product some years later. Under is better than Over in these cases. Plan accordingly.
4 turtles had an excelent chance to try some 4-ACO-DET for the first time. They already had experiences with lots of different compounds including 4-HO-MET and 4-ACO-DMT.
After reading the experiences online they figured that they should expect something very similar to 4-aco-dmt ( one of them had an INTENSE turbo charged COLOR swirling tornado trip with 17mg insufflated 4-aco-dmt but never tried it orally )
t 00.00 14 mg 4-aco-det fumarate was insufflated, barely noticeable in the nose
t 00.05 nasal drip is intense but not as awful as other stuff can be
t 00.15 first effects noticeable... mostly body feelings
t.00.40 effect are coming very slowly ... some very light visuals, everything becomes "softer"
t 01.00 taking a walk through the city is wonderful... very relaxed feeling.. everything is peaceful and serene
t 01.45 more visuals but nothing serious, very relaxed !
From here the effect are slowly fading and at about 4-5 hours all that is left is deep relaxation and good mood.
Lack of visuals surprised him cause of the web experiences and his intense 4-aco-dmt trip.
So very good material, slow and easy, i heard them plan an oral test in the 30-40mg range. Will let you know.
Does anybody know the conversion chart of fumarate to hcl ??
Thank a lot and enjoy !