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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 31-07-2009, 00:47
TempleOfLove TempleOfLove is offline
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Mystery detox substance in Vietnam- maybe Kratom?

SWIM recounted the following story to a friend-of-a-friend, and perhaps people here might be able to shed some light on this mystery substance or share similar experiences:

"While living in Vietnam, ___ fell into using smokeable 'number 3' heroin. Two months into moderate but still everyday use, ____'s presence was required for one week back in the United States. ___ figured he couldn't take a sock full of rocks on the plane, but that it might be possible to acquire some powerful opiates in pill-form.

"Accordingly, ___ told his situation to a friend, a local, who told him she knew a doctor who specialized in these kind of things, and who would provide the necessary stuff. (Of course, as one would expect of an addict, this was all getting taken care of at the very last minute, just four of five days before the flight). Cash changes hands, and the next afternoon, friend showed up with a pill bottle containing four or five large (likely hand-pressed), particularly ominous black and red capsules. ___ aksed friend what these were, what the name of the substance was, but the only response was 'medicine for stop smoking.' She explained that after tking this, I would be able to go to work, go to the market, eat, etc.

"That morning had been the 'last smoke,' and by nighttime the monkey started chattering for its bananas. One of the effects of suddenly stopping this smokeable stuff is intense exhaustion, so Night One was mostly passed in a subconsciously restless, stifling, but mercifully heavy and extended sleep. The next afternoon, Day 2, the w/d's were coming on full swing and it seemed like a good time to test out the mystery capsules. ___ swallowed one and settled back onto the bed, watching a movie on the laptop, acheing all over and taking an emotional beating from the sudden sense of this sad little pointless planet. Then, perhaps forty minutes later, getting up to use the bathroom, ___ noticed that with every turn of ___'s head, the lights coming through the window would flash violet, and suddenly also felt a strange, quiet "twilight" feeling. Not relief, exactly, but not the same grinding, immobile-yet-impatient discomfort either. Needless to say, ___ was bummed that this stuff wa clearly not an opiate, but resigned himself to a long, fairly easy evening nap. Afternoon of Day Three, ____ dosed again with a capsule, and again, the lavender light-flashes, eerie gothic kind of feeling, and sleep. ____ was still feeling lousy and couldn't put a finger on what this could be, so decided that this would be the last dose.

" On Day Four, ___ had to show up at work, pack bags, and head to the airport at midnight, so decided to cave and order up a day's worth of smoking to get through these tasks and hopefully coast through the first connecting flight without having to take those nauseating lemon-fizz codeine tablets that probably wouldn't do much anyway. And that's what happened- taxi to the airport with tiny pinprick eyes, and it wasn't till sitting in the food court of Incheon Int'l airport when the Bad Feeling started knocking on the door and plop went the codeine tabs into the water. But then a strange thing happened- rather than getting worse on the flight to the States, the w/d's held at a level mildness, and after a bedroom-bound day of supposed "jetlag" back in the US (actually a xanax-induced semi-coma, riding out the jeebies), ___ awoke to find himself feeling more or less fine. With some benzos and a ton of immodium (more for the change of diet than w/d's), ____ spent the following week feeling active and mentally positive..."

Now, swim has heard of the miraculous powers of ibogaine/kratom as far as withdrawal, and one suspects this was some pill-ified version of that, but when swim read about the primary effects and side-effect of kratom, they don't seem to match what the crystal-plane flashes of violet light and strange muted sensation ___ describes. Has anyone had any kratom exeperiences comparable to this? Whatever this stuff is, though, one is sure that ___ regrets not having held onto the three or four capsules left over- that stuff might've come in handy later on!
  #2  
Old 02-01-2010, 09:55
Cooki Gold member Cooki is offline
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Re: Mystery detox substance in Vietnam- maybe Kratom?

Although this is an old thread, I found a similar, more descriptive thread about this treatment and hope it can provide some extra information for future readers: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32361 (see below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrG View Post
I remember watching a documentary ten years ago about a herbal medicine from Vietnam called Heantos which showed long term addicts being cured of their addiction painlessly and easily in a matter of a few days (without the Thai Buddhist vomit therapy!).

Knowing some people (genuinely not me), who could have really used the opportunity for a proper cure instead of the pharma sponsored "drug replacement" therapy (methadone) which never seemed to actually help them, rather it simply serves to line the pockets of big pharma instead of the local dealer.

Now I remember watching it all very carefully (even remembering the reason for it being named Heantos - it means Heat of the Sun) to make sure that it was as genuine as it seemed and it certainly seemed to be an amazing short course cure with a few thousand former addicts praising its effectiveness.

In 1997 the UN provided sponsorship for the treatment to be analysed and developed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/22037.stm

Later that year the Vietnam government stepped in alleging that one addict (out of the 3/4000 who had been treated so far) had died as a result of the treatment and banned its use.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/despatches/37032.stm

Those involved in the original research and testing claim that the addict who died was already seriously ill before he took the treatment and suspect that the ban was so that the Vietnam Government could regain control of its testing and development.


So where is it?


Seriously folks, this did not appear to be some quack "tree hugger" remedy, this was the real deal. Thousands of addicts cured by taking a few dollars worth of natural ingredients.

Where is it?

Even Kofi Annan got involved because it was all so promising, claiming " it is important for the Third World - "recipient nations" in UN jargon - to be able to offer something back to the donor nations of the industrialised world."

Which obviously translates into "we give you peasants our money, now its about time for us to get something in return!".

So, where the fuck is it?

Here is a more recent (2004) reference to it by the UN in regards to funding:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:QAHwuTpGDCUJ:www.unops.org/NR/rdonlyres/9F39E244-FCD7-4B09-950E-DD345282B1DA/0/dp0428.doc+heantos&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=uk

Which states:
12. A special audit of the accounts receivable relating to the Heantos project was carried out at the request of UNOPS management and the Management Coordinating Committee.
13. It was noted that the decision to continue the Heantos activity despite the absence of a continuing agreement and the lack of sufficient funds represented a serious management override of key internal controls provided for in UNOPS financial regulations 5.4 and 5.5. Based on a review of pertinent records, the management decision to continue the Heantos activity was made at the level of the former Executive Director, although there was no indication that the former Executive Director gained financially from that action. It was also evident that the project coordinator was carrying out activities in support of matters unrelated to the Heantos activity. Finally, it was determined that the intent of UNOPS to make a provision for doubtful account in respect of the Heantos accounts receivable of $557,196 was reasonable given the uncertainty concerning the recoverability of the costs incurred





"project coordinator was carrying out activities in support of matters unrelated to the Heantos activity" - Fucking corruption?

Thousands upon thousands of addicts have the potential to be cured by this and the UN are dicking about by letting one their own pocket the money?

Ten years have passed and the fact that the UN were still funding research in 2004 shows that there was SEVEN years of continued funding and still nothing to offer because of mis-management and corruption?

This is a fucking disgrace.

Where is it?





  #3  
Old 04-01-2010, 03:14
Electrolingus Electrolingus is offline
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Re: Mystery detox substance in Vietnam- maybe Kratom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TempleOfLove View Post
Not relief, exactly, but not the same grinding, immobile-yet-impatient discomfort either. Needless to say, ___ was bummed that this stuff wa clearly not an opiate, but resigned himself to a long, fairly easy evening nap. Afternoon of Day Three, ____ dosed again with a capsule, and again, the lavender light-flashes, eerie gothic kind of feeling, and sleep. ____ was still feeling lousy and couldn't put a finger on what this could be, so decided that this would be the last dose.
Although this was posted nearly 6 months ago... But from the description of effects, it sounds like SWIY didn't get too much 'relief' from this mystery substance. If SWIY happened to look at what was actually inside these capsules and perhaps even tasted it, he could have gotten a better idea of what the substance was. There is no possible way to find a definite answer to this question without testing it, but further examination would have at least helped to eliminate a few possibilities.


Quote:
...when the Bad Feeling started knocking on the door and plop went the codeine tabs into the water. But then a strange thing happened- rather than getting worse on the flight to the States, the w/d's held at a level mildness, and after a bedroom-bound day of supposed "jetlag" back in the US (actually a xanax-induced semi-coma, riding out the jeebies), ___ awoke to find himself feeling more or less fine. With some benzos and a ton of immodium (more for the change of diet than w/d's), ____ spent the following week feeling active and mentally positive..."
Since the mystery pills didn't do much with helping SWIY feel better, SWIM would guess that the reason for this miraculous recovery after the codeine tabs was because of the codeine, xanax, and the "ton of imodium". There is much debate about loperamides ability to potentiate opiates and its ability to cross the blood brain barrier, but SWIM finds that higher than average doses will give him a fair amount of relief during withdrawal, and will dramatically intensify and prolong an opiate high. Not all people respond to loperamide in this manner, but SWIM knows that there are a fair amount who do.

So, if SWIM had to guess at anything... He would guess that the imodium taken in conjunction with the codeine had more to do with curbing the withdrawal symptoms than the mystery substance did.

Last edited by Electrolingus; 04-01-2010 at 03:44. Reason: to add the word xanax.

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