Drug info - trying heroin

[Rozycki]

Swim is interested in heroin and has been doing some research. Swim is a 20 year old male whos previous drug experience consists of pot, MDMA, Ecstacy and LSD.

From what swim has been hearing its the most incredible experience and swim wants to try it once, but is worried about the possibility of becoming addicted from a single hit, and the damage that one hit can do to you mentally and physically.

Swim would like to hear about other experiences, especially from people who have approached heroin from a similar point of view.

Also any advice regarding the best way to try it under swims circumstances would be greatly appreciated

[machine_elf]

One won't become addicted from a single hit, and other than the potential for addiction heroin itself produces little to no toxicity (especially when compared with other drugs of abuse). However, you must be clear on what you want to gain from it, as it is only human nature to want to repeat a pleasurable experience and with repeated use addiction can sneak up on you. As for safe routes of administration, if one has access to freebase "brown" heroin then smoking is the safest route as it hits instantly so one can titrate the dose decreasing risk of OD.
Hope this helps, stay safe.

[ex-junkie]

most people, swim included, only intended to "try it once"...

it took 7 years filled with withdrawal agony, prostitution, depression, financial ruin, loss of lifelong friends, family upset, and general unhappiness before swim was able to close the door on it for good.

a single hit isnt what gets you addicted, its the experience. most people want to do it again after that, and can be hooked in as little as a week.

swim would say not to be so foolish and stick to the party drugs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Candid and frankly open with the experience and advice. Well done.

[Pumpkin]

ex-junkie said it. Nobody plans on becoming an addict. SWIM gets off too much on oxycodone and can definately see potential for getting hooked on it. Hes never done heroin but if he were, he would try to find something pure enough to smoke. he dont like needles

Pumpkin added 1 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

And im definately not optimistic about even smoking it.

[cra$h]

Without an opiate tolerance, stay FAR from heroin. Test out oxy/hydrocodone to see if swiy even enjoys the high. Most the drugs swiy's experienced are uppers, or atleast lifts the mood, and opiates, well, are the far far opposite. Playing with opiates is like playing with fire though. Do it long enough and your bound to get burnt. Plus the bigger the flame the deeper the burn. Get 10-20mg of oxy or hydro, just for the taste. 20mg should be more than enough for a first timer's dose. To put it in perspective when I weighed 100lbs I was legitamately perscribed 5/500 vicodine. One gave a nice buzz and two knocked me out of the park!

[missparkles]

Swim would say avoid heroin...totally. It's too big a risk for a buzz.

[Sushi]

Originally Posted by missparkles

Swim would say avoid heroin...totally. It's too big a risk for a buzz.

This is actually not very far from truth, although it really depends on a person.

Alf is one of those creatures that experimented with opiates, heroin included, and his experiments has never transformed into anything else, i.e abusing or addiction. But Alf got a really good opiate buzz only from his first time IV morphine (3 times in total). Neither smoked heroin (3 exposures), nor codeine (6 exposures) gave him anything really worth recalling, so it's possible he is simply not really prone to become addicted to opiates.

As for becoming addicted from a single hit, well, every big journey starts with a single step, so it's better to be always cautious and sharp-eyed. Opiates (or downers in general) are most addictive of all drugs, together with nicotine, of course.

The bottom line: it can be done but there are variables, some unknown, other known to OP only.

1. Have swiy experimented with any downers? Swiy list doesn't include alcohol. Do swiy drink?
2. Are swiy easily addicted? Do swiy have addictive personality? Are swiy addicted to any of the drugs swiy mentioned?
3.Do swiy friends/acquaintance use opiates? Are swiy ready to break up with them after conducting swiy experiment? When swiy transgress that line and when swiy will hang around with using buddies it will be much easier to do heroin again. And again. And this will be a straight to hell road. Alf had no scruples to break up with opiates-using acquaintances. Swiy can't have them either.
4. Do swiy know anyone addicted to heroin? Alf's friend, much older than him, was heavily addicted. Watching him was in fact more instructive than anything he read and heard about heroin addiction.
5. Have swiy done the research - do swiy know how addictive is heroin or opiates in general? Do swiy know what is the mechanism of this addiction and how hard it is to quit?

Originally Posted by Rozycki

From what swim has been hearing its the most incredible experience and swim wants to try it once

It's certainly individual thing but from Alf's point of view this is definitely untrue. Both LSD and MDMA provided him much better, deeper, meaningful, more incredible and life-changing experiences than any opiates, heroin included. And much safer, with little or any risk of overdosing and addiction too.

Alf's advise: stick to them or, if swiy really want that experiment under swiy belt, KNOW SWIYSELF first and then get ready to get rid of creatures swiy will be using with. It's not a joke, it will be for real. Swiy will open the door and they will stay open.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great advice and information regarding SWIY's experiences
	good questions, defintitly something the OP has to do
	Good advice. Heroin isn't the greatest experience out there.

[Rozycki]

Originally Posted by Sushi

This is actually not very far from truth, although it really depends on a person.

1. Have swiy experimented with any downers? Swiy list doesn't include alcohol. Do swiy drink?
2. Are swiy easily addicted? Do swiy have addictive personality? Are swiy addicted to any of the drugs swiy mentioned?
3.Do swiy friends/acquaintance use opiates? Are swiy ready to break up with them after conducting swiy experiment? When swiy transgress that line and when swiy will hang around with using buddies it will be much easier to do heroin again. And again. And this will be a straight to hell road. Alf had no scruples to break up with opiates-using acquaintances. Swiy can't have them either.
4. Do swiy know anyone addicted to heroin? Alf's friend, much older than him, was heavily addicted. Watching him was in fact more instructive than anything he read and heard about heroin addiction.
5. Have swiy done the research - do swiy know how addictive is heroin or opiates in general? Do swiy know what is the mechanism of this addiction and how hard it is to quit?

yeah its starting to seem like swim might just steer clear of H, but in response to the questions:

1. Swim does drink, and thinks weed is a depressant, so swim has some experience.
2.swim does not have an addictive personality. Swim has been smoking alot of weed and is easily able to stop for any period of time, swim is also a non smoker, so hasnt developed a nicotine addiction from mix.
3. swim knows no one who has tried heroin or any opiates really. so swim would theoretically have to make friends with people to keep an addiction satisfied.
4.again, swim knows no addicts
5.As far as addiction goes, swim thinks he understands that while a chemical addiction is not developed from one hit, a mental one may well be. which is what swim is afraid of, because swim can be a little weak minded sometimes when it comes to resisting temptation.

Swim still hasnt come to a decision but advice seems to be that its not worth the risk. Is there anyone out there who genuinely has tried heroin just once and gotten away with it? or casually done it for a while and still been able to completely stop when it was necessary? how much can that sort of usage change you mentally?

I suppose swim still has alot of questions...

[Sushi]

Originally Posted by Rozycki

Is there anyone out there who genuinely has tried heroin just once and gotten away with it?

Alf seems to be closest to this, although, as swiy see from the thread, he is clearly not a "norm" of any kind, apparently he's more an exception to the rule.

Alf is 37 now, did his first morphine injection when he was 20, just like swiy. A *decade* later he tested brown heroin. And this year he experimented with cold water extracting of codeine. As swiy see his exposures to opiates are even less frequent than one a year (somewhat more than 10 exposures in 17 years). So, yes, it can be done "experimentally" but this kind of approach requires a lot of self-discipline. Attitude is the key, nevertheless I still think that missparkles got it right:

Swim would say avoid heroin...totally. It's too big a risk for a buzz.

Also Master_Khan says something very important:

if swir was 65 maybe somebody here might say wtf, give it a go, but nobody is saying that to someone who is 20 years old.

Yes, exactly, swiy still got a lot of time to try it. To try anything. Actually Alf is day-dreaming sometimes about using more opiates when he is old. Not yet anyway. Bear in mind that he already left behind him period of utmost vulnerability to addictions (from adolescence to about 25 years old), and now he is addicted to cannabis only since quitting nicotine 8 months ago.

It's a sly, evil drug, that creeps up on you, and catches you when your back is turned, and before you know it, you've got a habit.

Sure, we all know what is a metaphor, but anyway I would like to stress that heroin is not some scheming evil-minded nasty creature that will attack unaware people. People have to use it to become addicted and use it regularly. It is very (maybe most) addictive but it all depends on people to use or say no to it. It's always swiy call. Heroin will not attack swiy in a park at night, it will most likely come to swiy with some people. That's why I asked swiy about acquaintances using opiates. Consider it a blessing swiy don't know anyone. Just let it stay like this then. Let things happen, live.

When some creatures, some users appear in swiy life, calculate swiy options but remember my advice - if swiy decide to give it a go, either don't hang around with those people afterwards or have swiy refusal shield always up. Always. They will be telling swiy heroin is the most incredible high, pot is shit for kids, LSD is unpredictable, Ecstasy can't compete with the Real Deal and so on. The truth is all our pets think their drug of choice is the best and it proves nothing really. It's really simple: swiy will have to refuse, because swiy can't get addicted if swiy refuse to use, right?

I suppose swim still has alot of questions...

Ask, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions and the need to know more.

[Spucky]

All addicted Addicts become addicted from their "First Shot" or use!
Even many People don`t liked it at the first Time.

Heroin is a Drug for "Babbitts" (what a funny Word, i like it )
even many do not know they are

Edit: My noisy Cat knows it`s impossible to talk to People who want to try it,
but please get well informed before swiny do that.
A Forum like this one is a nice help to reduce the damage of wrong Dose and wrong management!

the most incredible experience

cant be a Drug, think about your Son or/and Daughter get born, that is incredible!

[cra$h]

As far as being addicted to opiates, you're not going to die. Eventually, maybe, but not for a while. You'll want to die though. Becoming souless and completely colorless, all the people you meet will not become friends, but potential connections. It doesn't take much, even with baby opiates. Just a couple uses and you realize how great it works for stress relief, and BAM. You need relief from everything. And for as long as you're on opiates, life literally stops. When you get clean you realize that you're right where you left off, while all your old friends have moved on. But no. You stayed in your beat ass town, gettin high thinkin you've reached the final destination while your friends all got their head strait and said hey, I'm gonna go to college! Even socially you don't develope, the problems are never solved, they've just pickled into monsters and the only way you can fix it is to put it on the backburner, by getting high. Again.

Sorry, there's just swim's little addiction speech, comming first hand and he's never even seen heroin, only fucks around with oxy and this is what it caused. Well, I do wish the best of luck, and that you absolutely HATE opiates, or atleast take up swishushi's stance on the drug.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very,very true description of addiction(s)
	Good sound advice about heroin addiction. Good warning to others thinking of 'one go'
	very good points raised about consequences of heroin use

[east_of_eden]

swiy is gambling with their life when deciding to try heroin for the first time.

swim says "gamble" because not everyone even likes it the first time and this might be the case for swiy. there have been posts on here from swimmers saying they tried it and didn't get what all the fuss is about.

but even though this could be the case, think of all the people in the world addicted to heroin. these are all people who were thinking of just trying it once and although swiy wont be physically addicted from one use, if swiy gets the feeling and it is something swiy really enjoys then the mental addiction will start right then and there.

swiy will think of it everytime swiy is stressed or upset or coming down off some other drug and swiy's mind will whisper "why not do some heroin to relax, just this one more time" and then the addiction is off and running.

[missparkles]

If swiy is determined to try heroin just be aware of the consequences. Apart from all of the good advice already given there are also repercussions if swiy does become addicted, manages to quit some time in the future, and cleans up.
There are health issues (people who become addicted to heroin don't usually have their health at the top of their list of priorities) some do, but not often.
Be prepared for every doctor to look at swiy as if they're there for what they can get. Remember doctors are not used to junkies getting clean, their experience is usually "once a user always a user." There are exceptions to this rule, but swim hasn't met any yet.
When swim goes to the hospital for blood test she has no veins to use so it hurts like hell, sometimes they have to take blood from her neck.

College. The admins didn't trust swim, this made it more difficult for her to feel comfortable. Other students didn't have to prove they were committed, but swim did. But that's society for you. Judgmental as ever.

If swim wants to have a deep relationship with a guy she has to disclose everything, she can't leave it out, but when does she tell him, how does she tell him?
These are just a couple of examples of the consequences that go with the territory, so to speak.
Swim is certain others can add to the awful stories of life after recovery. It's not nice, swiy will never quite live it down and it stays with swiy for the rest of swiys life. These are just swims observations, her own experiences.

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by cra$h

As far as being addicted to opiates, you're not going to die. Eventually, maybe, but not for a while. You'll want to die though. Becoming souless and completely colorless, all the people you meet will not become friends, but potential connections. It doesn't take much, even with baby opiates. Just a couple uses and you realize how great it works for stress relief, and BAM. You need relief from everything. And for as long as you're on opiates, life literally stops. When you get clean you realize that you're right where you left off, while all your old friends have moved on. But no. You stayed in your beat ass town, gettin high thinkin you've reached the final destination while your friends all got their head strait and said hey, I'm gonna go to college! Even socially you don't develope, the problems are never solved, they've just pickled into monsters and the only way you can fix it is to put it on the backburner, by getting high. Again.

Sorry, there's just swim's little addiction speech, comming first hand and he's never even seen heroin, only fucks around with oxy and this is what it caused. Well, I do wish the best of luck, and that you absolutely HATE opiates, or atleast take up swishushi's stance on the drug.

This was an excellent description.

SWIM would say that some people do really get addicted in the first hit, at least in an abstract, fatalistic kind of way. People whose lives and minds are in a certain state that is completely vulnerable to it, that is.

As Crash said perfectly, it completely takes all of your problems away. It makes you feel like a dream-like god, in an ecstatic state where anything is possible, not at all bound to the baseness of normal human existence. Whenever you have problems, you have learned that you can escape to that. You start using it every time you are stressed, which eventually becomes so many days in a row, as your tolerance for stress and ability to cope with things starts dramatically decreasing, that you become physically addicted. Once you are physically addicted, it becomes a whole different game. The need for it becomes truly desperate, and you can't deal with anything without it. To aggravate the situation, most people have enough money to afford a daily addiction for a long amount of time. Years even. SWIM has noticed a big difference between the people who opt out after a couple months, and those who go for years on it. Your brain completely changes. After you run out of money, have pawned everything you owned, probably stolen, and have basically destroyed most of the things in your life, you might get clean at some point because you truly have no other option. If you are lucky your family will still help you, despite how much you have hurt and stolen from them. If you are unlucky, you will be withdrawing on the street or in jail. But nonetheless with literally no way to get money, you will end up clean in an excrutiatingly painful process. Then you find out that despite making it through the unbelievable horror of acute withdrawals, you are no where near done. You can't really feel pleasure anymore. You can get distracted for a couple minutes, but then it's over and you are always stuck there with a huge hole in your soul that you can't escape. Your neurochemistry has changed so much that to simply sit still is unbearable. To go through a normal day of life is so desperately boring that you just want to die. It's a long term state of severe depression and anxiety. And it takes about a year for your brain to go back to normal after long term heroin use. That's another year of hell, depression and despair you have to go through, once you actually get through the excrutating pain of withdrawals and the inability to sleep for about a month - the bad part, right? But you probably won't make it through that anyways, because the first, or second, or 20th time you are clean and sitting there with 20 dollars in your pocket, and feeling horrible, you will realize that you can fix it. You can feel so good right now. And then it's back to a life of scraping, 2 days of withdrawals, 1 day of heroin, which doesn't feel good because of the anxiety of knowing that tomorrow you will be in hell again.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great discription of the worst case scenario

[east_of_eden]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

You can't really feel pleasure anymore. You can get distracted for a couple minutes, but then it's over and you are always stuck there with a huge hole in your soul that you can't escape. Your neurochemistry has changed so much that to simply sit still is unbearable. To go through a normal day of life is so desperately boring that you just want to die. It's a long term state of severe depression and anxiety.

this is so true and such a good description of why heroin is so different from other drugs and why it is so hard to stop using and stay away.

life without it is so desperately lonely and sad and boring and that longing for the sweet relief heroin provides is always there, this is what my cat has told me

[cra$h]

the problem with not liking it the first time, is that you'll do it until you do like it. Swim's done this with non-opiates, most specificly mushrooms and marijuana. You'll spend a shitload of money on a drug just to get the desired effects. Now what? This is when you make the choice of sticking with it, or saying eh, I had my taste. Time to move on.

[cra$h]

Hmm.. Been a little while since we've got an update from rozycki. Wonder if he liked it.

[helene]

The one thing that is impossible to explain to new (unaddicted) heroin users is the sheer power of physical addiction.

None of us, however much we thought we knew before we started using, ever could have guessed the magnitude, the complete life-changing power of of a full blown heroin habit.

Of course we all go into it thinking we're stronger, thinking we know a way of getting away with it, thinking we're the exception to the rule, the one prson who can use recreationally, and not get addicted...

No-one plans to become a heroin addict. "So how does it happen?" I hear you ask...It's a sly, evil drug, that creeps up on you, and catches you when your back is turned, and before you know it, you've got a habit.

Hey, you might get away with it for a while, might be a few weeks, might be a few years, you'll be having fun, experimenting, going out, partying, being young. But then one day, something very subtle will shift inside you, something tht you won't even have noticed, and you won't be that happy-go-lucky teenager anymore, and you won't be using for fun anymore, not for enjoyment, but for excapism, for survival, out of necessety. Maybe it'll be a relative dying, or a particularly bad break-up...could be anything, that's the thing about heroin, it seeks out these weaknesses of yours, and pounces on them.

To attempt to explain the difference between psychological and physical addiction to someone who hasn't been there is too difficult. There's plenty of accounts to found of what heroin withdrawal is like, so SWIM doesn't need to go into that here.

What SWIM will say, is that the one thing that she is still absolutely shocked by, every time she thinks of it, is the ability of heroin to shift one's moral standpoints.

Things we thought we'd never do, levels we thought we'd never stoop to, real hard and fast "I Will Never"s... At first you think you'll never take drugs. Then you'll never take anything stronger than weed. Then you reckoned you'd stop at ecstacy, speed, weed, acid, you know, the party drugs. Recreational stuff, fun stuff. But never smack.

This is fairly normal, all in the lines of experimenting, being young, having fun, etc etc...

But then it starts to really slip.

First it was "Yeh, but I'm only smoking a few lines, only at the weekends, only after going out"...then "yeh, but I'll never inject"... "I'll never get a habit"... then you'll never inject in your groin, never shoplift for it, never steal off your friends and family, you'll never sell your body for smack...

Sure, SWIM hasn't gone that far herself. Yet. But people do. You never know, SWIM might. All SWIM is saying is you look back and think "Hmm I wonder at what point my morals shifted so far away from their original starting point?"

And SWIM doesn't know of any drug, other than heroin, that has this phenominal ability to change those aspects of your personality that you once believed were so concrete, so infalliable, so permenant.

So think about it, real hard, before you get involved.

H

helene added 6 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

SWI Dying Tomorrow said what SWIM was trying to say better than she ever could.

Stay Away.

H

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good to speak about "years" without addiction, but in the final it will get you/everyone. Thumbs up!
	Excellent attempt to explain the progression of heroin addiction. Somewhat of a shame no one is likely to listen.

[anonuser30500]

Just one go?

Classic.

I mean, of all the drugs you could say that for, heroin really is a case of once bitten, never shy!

Its a funny one is heroin - can get anyone, and nobody can tell if they are the one until they have a go. For that reason Swim would say to anyone that staying away from heroin is a good thing.

[cra$h]

a friend of mine had to get clean in order to get a job. He hasn't been on any opiates for 3 weeks, and hasn't been high for about a week on any drug. I commented saying the WD's had to be hell, and how can you possibly move on? And he said once you get past the main part, you realize that you're actually living life now, making progess, and it feels great. Of course he wasn't heavily addicted, but there's still a point.

Roz, you're a smart man. Even after the shit swim has said and what fellow members have said, swim's still considering heroin. What a fucking dumbass...

[Master_Khan]

Roz if swir was 65 maybe somebody here might say wtf, give it a go, but nobody is saying that to someone who is 20 years old. Life is precious, and the wisdom displayed on this thread is mighty. Swim thanks all the posters here who took the time to reach out and attempt to spare a young person a potentially life shattering experience.

[rovacab1]

"From what swim has been hearing its the most incredible experience"

Stay away from it. It will take your life and soul away. SWIMs bin there and done it. You may not get hooked first time on the drug, but the process of scoring, finding a dealer, etc, is also addictive. Don't make the mistake swim did, it ain't worth it. SWIM doesn't know any occassional users, it always ends up hardcore.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice.

[flube]

if swim wants to lose friends, lose money, ruin all other drugs, wreck family connections, become an expert at lying, unreliable, miserable and self loathing. Go for it.

Im not saying you will get addicted, or if you did would do any of the above. But swim was just like you at the start, and it took four years to get addicted, and swim now regrets ever using. its hardcore.

Please stay away from it, swim means that from the heart!

[missparkles]

Swim would have to disagree with heroin not being a "scheming evil-minded nasty creature that will attack unaware people." Unaware as in never used...yes.
But once swim got a habit it was like there were two people inhabiting swims body and mind. The real Sparkles, the aware, kind, giving woman and the sly, devious, nasty person she could become when she was using.
And yes they're still there, living together.
Complacency is fatal to swim. She doesn't have to think about the "other" Sparkles...just be aware that she's there...waiting for swim to take one more hit, one more pill.
Swim has heard of recreational heroin users but she's yet to meet one. She's not saying they don't exist...just that if there are so few, that in itself says how difficult it is to be one.
These are just musings from swim, everyone has their own take on this...but it keeps Sparkles in the game so it works for her.

[Spucky]

Before People think about to try Heroin "just once" they have to do a mental training,
like to stop smoking, to avoid Coffee/ Tea with Milk and Sugar and all Glutamate Food!
(imo. all Addicts (95%) smoke Tobacco and trink Coffee/ Tea with a lot of Milk (Casein) and Sugar and eat White-Bread (Glutem)
Both are Opioide-alike.




If they can do that............................there will be a tiny chance to go without addiction!