Health - HPPD (Flashbacks) and LSD

Jatelka EDIT: Please note that this is a combined thread, and the earlier posts are from before a time when the "No self Incrimination" rule came into play

Here is a question for those in the know...


I did quite alot of LSD when I was 18 (Over a sheet in 3 months to be exact). I stopped doing it after I had felt I had gained from my experiences and it was time to move on. Well, I'm almost 22 now and the tracers from that 3 month adventure are still hanging around.


I have tryed many things to get rid of them over the past four years, but nothing seems to work. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas I would really appreciate it.

[newuser]

I have had the same experience. After you do enough of it, the tracers are permanent. Just one of the negative effects of the drug I guess, and I didn't even use it that much. Throughout a two year period, maybe 20 times at most. They'll start to go away though don't worry.

[Creeping Death]

Im wondering about the Hallucinogen Persisting Perceptual Disorder. There are alot of psychadelic drug users on the board, and i figure at least some of them have to have HPPD.

I want to know what it's like. What kind of hallucinations are there, how does it effect your life, and how does it feel? I know nothing about it, so i'd appriciate it if you could share some scenarios or situations where you've had HPPD symptoms and what it was like.

[mariecurie]

To be honest, I've been around hundreds of regular users of psychedelic
drugs and I have never met anyone who claimed to have HPPD. Lots of
people talk about how LSD and research chemicals can give it to you,
but these are often the same people that say LSD stays in your spine
forever.



I will not believe HPPD exists until someone I know acquires it. You'd
think one of my friends who used LSD every day for four months would
have it if you could get it, right?

[Stingray_313]

Actually, i believe that i have an acute case of HPPD. My standard
perception of things is off and I occassionally see minor
hallucionations/distortions. Not to say that these arent fun from time
to time, but can be very irritating when i am trying to read a book or
something and all of a sudden the words all become strange symbols.



The only time I really enjoy it is when I am using another drug.
Usually marijuana is the best stimulant for my HPPD, making the
hallucionations a little more realistic and believable.



Overall, i would say it is not something to enjoy or look forward in
the use of hallucionagenics. I would just say that when you want to
trip or see strange stuff, then do LSD or Mushrooms or something; fuck
this disorder.



Peace

[mr. strawberry]

Originally Posted by Stingray_313

Actually, i believe that i have an acute case of HPPD. My standard
perception of things is off and I occassionally see minor
hallucionations/distortions. Not to say that these arent fun from time
to time, but can be very irritating when i am trying to read a book or
something and all of a sudden the words all become strange symbols.



The only time I really enjoy it is when I am using another drug.
Usually marijuana is the best stimulant for my HPPD, making the
hallucionations a little more realistic and believable.



Overall, i would say it is not something to enjoy or look forward in
the use of hallucionagenics. I would just say that when you want to
trip or see strange stuff, then do LSD or Mushrooms or something; fuck
this disorder.



Peace

+1 that was very well said...every word of it!

[korky8097]

i have slight flashbacks from time to time, but not all the time

[truestbet]

I would say i have a very mild case of it. Sometimes things will shift for not even a second, other times i will notice a strange pattern very breifly that other people won't notice at all. It's like my mind is playing tricks on me, but only for a second. I don't mind it too much, i don't get freaked out by it or really even pay much attention to it, because i am too busy to sit around and even think about very much. I should also add that i have tripped on lsd, and shrooms about 400 times, and have had probly 30 bad trips where a lot of things went wrong and cause me to freak out. Sometimes i will also get this real bad feeling like something is going to go wrong. I think clinically it is not called HPPD, but rather depersonalization and desensitization.

[FryDay]

I have had perma-trails for a long time. The tracers dont go away, but im not sure if you would call it HPPD. I just call it a fun way to paint the world. Hmm....

[mf400]

Every once and awhile, for a fraction of a second I think i see something likea black dot on my hand, or a blue trail on the road. I dont think its HPPD, and it definatly doesnt bother me.


I heard a story once of someone's brother dying in a car crash because he started to have a flashback, and then crashed. Personally I think that is bullshit, because if he died, how did he tell people he was having an acid flashback? God, I hate drug bullshit.

[Dimitri]

yeah...I agree

I even doubt the whole flashback theory. I also never met an
experienced user having it. If flashback means, that someone emotionally
reexperiencing something, then cleaning up my room or shitting in the toilet can also
cause flashbacks. okay...not that emotional impact but....anyway I
think it's a myth or something different then the coming back of a full blown trip.

For HPPD I think it is different, because I had it myself for about 1
year than slowly dissappearing. The question is just: WHAT is HPPD? a
neurochemical disorder or/and a psychological/ psychiatric disorder?

I never understood why the best threatment are anxiety medications...anyway...a long topic


Edited by: Dimitri

[sloppo]

Permenant tracers have been there for a long time from acid. Recently 2C-I in massive doses has leftSWIM's vision a little different. It is hard to put my finger on what is different, but it is much more apparent with good pot, which is a hallucinogen in some classifications, or getting very drunk. Staring at a spackled ceiling can make it start moving, or staring at the wall or drapes. Also hues of color can seem to bleed together. This all occurs when sober. I think most of the visual distortions were always there but somehow SWIM is more senstivie and perceptive to them now. Like when one gets the sun reflected directly into one's eyes, and it leaves a colored spot in the vision. Also lights at night are bad, with sometimes large halos and they cannot be seen clearly it seems. Also the humidity in the air can be seen around lights at night. Overall it seems SWIM has greater sensitivity to light than he used to, but it is hard to remember how one used to percieve.


I'm not sure if this is what they call HPPD. I have certainly never had a "flashback", but I have heard a story I believe from a guy who used to do a lot of acid. Hesays he fell one time right on his tail bone hard, and started tripping for like 10 minutes with visual and mind effects like acid. I don't know if this is valid but his mom is a nurse, and he says thatsome stuffcollects at the very base of the spine. Stuff the body cannot metabalize and it just collects. (I'm not talking about that myth of acid staying in the spine, this is physiology)When he smacked his tailbone some of that stuff catalyzed a short trippy expierience. I do not know if this is plausible, its just what he told me and he knows muchmore abouthuman physiology and biology than I. He also claims it has happened a couple other times but that time was by far the hardest this phenomonon has hit him. I don't think it goes along with the flashback theory of a tragic trip coming back and the tripper reexpieriences it. I have never heard of that happening to anyone.


Overall, the visual distortions SWIM has at baseline are annoying at worst. Nothing interferes with what SWIM needs to see, and I think SWIM's visual acuity has actualy permentatly improved from the use of psychedelic drugs. YMMV.





SloppoEdited by: sloppo

[Ephemerides]

I've had tracers for a while. When I look at a solid coloured surface,
I see a bunch of colours moving around really quickly. This goes over
everything, but I can see it best when it's a solid colour.



I've never met a psychedelic user who hasn't had hppd in some case for
some amount of time. HPPD is real, it just doesn't make things harder
most of the time.

[prospero]

Flashbacks definitely occur. I've had them several times, usually following regular usage or a particular drug, or a single very intense trip. In my experience they're quite short short-lived, not usuallymore than a minute in duration, but absolutely as powerful as the original experience. However you don't get them indefinitely, perhaps up to a year after triggering experience, after which they disappear.

[oblomow]

SWIM had a very uncomfortable experience last feb. He connected with his unconcious, as apparently acid tends to do, and saw the world from a very ugly angle. Ugly enough to be sure he'd kill himself if that state of mind would persist. The lsd didn't alter his visual perception at all, only, like I said, the way he looked at and experienced the world around him in general and humankind in particular. Now, four months later, he's having trouble shaking that perception. Not of wanting to kill himself, but of the utter futility of life, as he experienced that day. So far, the term HPPD is the best way of describing what SWIM is and has been going through. He would like to know if there's someone else who had a similar experience and how he or she dealt with it.


greetz oblomow

[polloloco001]

not on acid (never got the real shit) but after a period of doing a lot
of psychedelics, dissociatives and various drugs my perception of life
became sometihng like this and i was quite depressed for a while. i got
over it, but lsd does effect yuor brain chemistry. hopefully it won't
last. life can seem futile when you tihnk about it literally. it can
seem like theres no point and no distinct purpose. but i got over it. i
try and look at life from the point of view that the purpose of life is
to have fun and be happy. one of my least favorite sayings ever is
"life sucks and then you die." if you live the right way life doesnt
suck, life can be wonderful. do it whatever way you can. maybe talk to
your doctor about meds. i am on zoloft and its been very helpful.

[prospero]

It sounds a bit similar to something Anne Shulgin went through and is described,I think, in TIHKAL. For hera combination of self-loathing and the futility of life, coupled with the absolute coldness of God the observer. She did get over it.


I would say you have hit a great truism - life is futile and pointless - accept that fact. However we (God, the universe, whatever) have come up with a way of making that futility pretty damn enjoyable. Think of all the nice things that happen to you, whether it's the simple pleasure of sipping a can of coke, or the much deeper one of loving and being loved by your friends, or anything else you like.


My advice isto not fight the negative thoughts at all but in fact to believe them entirely, and then simply move on and concentrateon what you like and enjoy. I'mpretty sure you'll soon find the negativity is rapidly forgotten.Edited by: prospero

[Nagognog2]

The chapter is entitled "Crisis" in the book Pihkal. It does provide a good glimpse into the hell which all thinking people tend to descend into at least once in their lives. Other works on this subject include the series by Dante - notably Purgatorio, and Inferno.


As soon as you stop fearing this journey and accept it, the negative charge it has vanishes and all things return to normal. Only you, the voyager, are much wiser for the trip. This tends to be the conclusion of those who have been there and back.

[Solidly-here]

From ONE angle, the World is ugly ... From another Angle, the World is Beautiful.


The World, and how we perceive it, changes from moment-to-moment. For example, I am visiting my Best Friend. I knock on the door. I know that I am going to have a good time (she is Safe to be with, she likes me, I like her). As the door opens, THERE she is. "Hi! It's good to see you."


At this very second, my view of the World is: Life is fantastic. Everything is Beautiful. As I walk in and sit down, I am basking in the fun time I am having. The whole World isgreat.


An LSD trip is (usually) similar: Wow! I see things in a more fun, exciting way.


A "bad" Trip is like a time when I have to deal with someone (usually a Relative, or Business person) who is the Black Hole. I have an Aunt who is amazingly focused on Health problems (and disasters). First, she will tell me about every new Disease she has heard of, AND explain (in excruciating detail) about how it affects those un-lucky people. [Good grief, do we have to talk about this? Answer: Yes, it's the law.]


Second, she begins enumerating her few Illnesses (mostly minor), and catches-me-up on how she is a Martyr (for being able to undergo this Life-Threatening (???) Illness). Uh huh ... Oh boy. By the time my 2 hours of Punishment (excuse me, I meant my Visit) is over, Life looks pretty ugly.


This is like a "bad" Trip. So, for a time, I forget my Wonderful view of the World. I have taken-on Auntie's view of an ugly World. After the effects wear off (or, I leave Auntie's house), it is my JOB to re-acquaint myself to my Beautiful view.


So for Swim, it is merely a process of coming back. This is done by Remembering. I remember a special person in my Life; remember my feelings of happiness, excitement, and wonder.


This process takes as long as it takes. Little-by-little, Life will re-awaken in its beauty. The process of recovering from a Black Hole visit, is like recovering from a "Bad" view. It's just that LSD makes the experience a whole lot more intense (and more easily remembered later). Just remember: Time Heals All Wounds. And it does. Don't fight the view, just laugh at it: After all, it's NOT True.Edited by: Solidly-here

[oblomow]

Thanx very much for your messages. They're very helpful and I am positive SWIM will - in time - get back to where he was. A bit older, a lot wiser and definitely stronger..


Thanx

[Akira1983]

SWIM has been a habitual Marijuana smoker for almost a two years now. About seven months ago SWIM tryed LSD for the first time. SWIM droped one hit my first time and played a game of basketball, to my supprise SWIM did really good . Since it was only one hit SWIM felt VERY energized, but I wasn't tripping. So SWIM droped acid at least 4 more times. The second time SWIM did it he droped two hit's and was having a good trip till somthing wierd happened. SWIM was sitting outside on the back of a truck and just kept stairing at the clouds, they looked like snowflake patterns but just well...trippy! SWIM was completly fascinated by this and just kept staring at this till all of a sudden he feel into a gaze.
Problems SWIM is experiencing

Concentration/Social Activity
This seems to be the biggest problem SWIM has suffered. SWIM smoked Marijuana for a year and a half everyday and was VERY social even when he was completly ripped. After consuming the acid, SWIM will be with a group of his long time friends and not say anything till he is spoken to. He feels like he can't communicate like he use to be able to. But the WORST ill effect has been his lack to focus. It seems like SWIM me just "ZONES OUT" for about 30 seconds-2 minutes. Everything becomes blury and it's just like a dead stare.

Vision
He noticed after his last trip his vision was diffrent. Not worse, not better, just diffrent. It's seems as though SWIM is looking at a video of what he is seeing. Everything he looks at just seems more ambient. SWIM's job consists of putting parts in a slow moving wheel. After he stares down at the wheel and looks up, shit just hits the fan. He can look at ANYTHING and the visuals are like he is tripping. Things just colapse into themselves and stretch inward, generaly trippy shit, but this does not last long at all.

Now before SWIM posts this SWIM want to make a few things clear. He isn't even (or can't be) 100% sure all these Ill effects are from the LSD, but is pretty sure some of them are. First off, SWIM doesn't regret these experiences. SWIM is not trying to tell anyone in any way, shape, or form how they should view LSD. With the exeption of the ill effects, SWIM
LOVED IT!!! Happy tripping,

smoke on.

[Deft]

That happend to SWIM too, he cant really socialize with hes friens while hes smoking, he gets very paranoical after hes first trip of LSD, but when he trips on ACID he gets very open and sociable, thats why he stopped smokin J, SWIM hopes there would be a cure for it.

[Jatelka]

The little snowflake patterns SWIY gets when they look at the clouds (whether tripping or not) is a perfectly natural phenomenom known as "floaters". Basically a little bit of debris floating through the liquid inside the eye.

[dip]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

The little snowflake patterns SWIY gets when they look at the clouds (whether tripping or not) is a perfectly natural phenomenom known as "floaters". Basically a little bit of debris floating through the liquid inside the eye.

Does this also relate to HPPD? Does one begin to notice this somehow due to heightened sensory input?

[roserjoe]

SWIM has those floaters, occasionly, it has nothing to do with HPPD.