Extraction - Scopolamine experiment questions

[=SKA=]

SWIM has a friend that wants to try Datura. Despite the many warnings SWIM gave him about nightshades he still wants to do it.
SWIM offered to be a babysitter to him during the trial and if need be strap him down and/or administer Pilocarpine.
SWIM has also proposed him to take extracted scopolamine instead of making Datura/Brugmansia tea so at least he can dose more accurately and safely.

So SWIM would like to know a relatively simple(meaning no need for intricate lab equipment or generally inaccessable chemicals) and pure method for extracting scopolamine from Datura/Brugmansia. SWIM wants the scopolamine in dry powder form, without fats/oils, as pure as possible.
SWIM's friend has (plenty of) dried Brugmansia flowers and plentyfull Datura Inoxia seeds from which Scopolamine could be extracted.

Also SWIM would like to know what is a good plant source of Pilocarpine(Tropane alkaloid's anti-dote) and how to extract Pilocarpine from this plant. Does Pilocarpine need to be extracted or would a Tea made from the Pilocarpine plant-material be an effective Datura-antidote?
SWIM wants to have Pilocarpine around during the trial.

Help would be much appreciated.

[Joe_Pinko]

There is already a (closed) thread in this sub-forum entitled "Datura Extraction", which purports to give a procedure for isolating the alkaloids.

Sorry, but SWIM doesn't feel comfortable even providing a link to the procedure.

In SWIM's opinion, SWIY might-as-well ask other strangers on the interweb, "How can I rig a machine to fire a bullet and miss my head by a fraction of an inch?"

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point Scopolamine is like playing russian roulette

[=SKA=]

Originally Posted by Joe_Pinko

There is already a (closed) thread in this sub-forum entitled "Datura Extraction", which purports to give a procedure for isolating the alkaloids.

Sorry, but SWIM doesn't feel comfortable even providing a link to the procedure.

In SWIM's opinion, SWIY might-as-well ask other strangers on the interweb, "How can I rig a machine to fire a bullet and miss my head by a fraction of an inch?"

SWIM knows that taking Datura and similair plants is close to playing Russian Roulette, but hasn't been able to convince his friend of this.
However the ignorant, but kind fool has made up his mind about it and won´t let SWIM discourage and stop him from doing Datura.
So the least SWIM can do is work on harm reduction. SWIM could leave him alone to do it and possibly ingest fatal doses of Datura Tea, but would rather assist him and reduce risks by cautious, accurate dosing and babysitting him.

SWIM did look around, but couldn't actually find a method to extract pure scopolamine only. It seems to be a sensored procedure, which in SWIM's opinion is hardily contributing to Harm Reduction. SWIM understands the fear surrounding this plant all too well.

Let SWIM make it clear that it is his friend that has the spectaculairly bad idea to try Datura: The very sight of the plant makes SWIM chill and seeing a Datura Tea would be enough to send SWIM running away at high speed, screaming in terror. So no need to convince SWIM how evil this plant is. He knows all too well.
He once had a minor affair with Lady Datura and since then she convinced him Thoroughly to fearfully respect her and stay far away from her.

[=SKA=]

SWIM has a bunch of ether bottles lying around and wonders: Would an Ether extraction of Dried Brugmansia Flowers and Datura Inoxia seeds be effective at extracting pure Scopolamine?

[=SKA=]

Someone was so kind to help SWIM out by telling SWIM how scopolamine is extracted.
Once SWIM has performed the Scopolamine-experiment with his friend, he will report back results and notes that he wrote down during the experiment with people's here so that the resulting information can be of help in harm reduction to others.

If a friend of SWIY's is fascinated by Nightshades and is stubborn by having made up his/her mind to do it: Aid them the way SWIM did with his stubborn friend, by persuading them to not make nightshade flower, leaf or seed-tea but instead extracting pure scopolamine for them, dosing it really carefully and babysitting them(if need be be able to strap them down, sedate them with a benzo to abbort disastrous nightshade deliriums...etc And VERY important: Have Pilocarpine ready.

Now SWIM would like to find a Pilocarpine(Scopolamine poisoning anti-dote) source plant and figure out how to extract pure Pilocarpine from it. SWIM bets that a search round these forums or on google would probably give enough information, however if someone is willing to let me know this here in this topic that would be handy nevertheless.

[Potter]

[top]SKA

: Maybe it's time to tell your friend that if they feel so damn hellbent on being stupid, they may need to find new friends.

Have they considered Henbane Beer? As far as forms of ingestion go, this really seems to be one of the safest, most time tested means. As long as you put it away after you finish your agreed upon dose that is (seems it makes you thirsty for more, leading to OD issues).

The biggest issue I've seen with extraction, is it's still difficult to determine just how much alkaloid one has for dosing. At least with kitchen chemistry. If the recipe and equipment is good enough, well...

An ally of mine in the pharmaceutical field recently got their hands on some pharm grade nightshade alkaloids, they're rare, but with the dose printed on the package, FAR FAR safer then any thing else.

If you're friend is still hellbent, make them take this series of experiments over a few months, no more then a week and a half between experiments, starting at VERY low doses, gradually increasing. If nothing happens for the first few times, that's not an issue. This way when the very first effects start to show, they'll be aware of them. This is how Shulgin tests novel compounds. Under no circumstances should a first round of experiments be at the level of an "active dose".

[=SKA=]

Thanks for the help and concern. Shulgin's way is the way to go.

SWIM was wondering: Couldn't one be very exact about the dose Scopolamine administered when the scopolamine was extracted from transdermal Motionsickness patches? Or would such an extraction actually be more impure than extracting it from Brugmansia flowers or Datura innoxia seeds?

[doingdadope]

If swim has access to the patches then it would be safer by a long shot, as the patches contain the same amount of scopolamine every time and no need separating the other Tropane alkaloids because they are not present. Also any inactive ingredients left in your extract from the patches shouldn't pose to much of a problem, as the scopolamine would be reaching a toxic dose before the inactives. (swims just guessing on this.)