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  #1  
Old 21-07-2009, 04:50
swamp66 swamp66 is offline
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Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Hey guys,

Here's a story about my friend Leigh...

Leigh got into opiates through Percocet. He loved the way they made him feel. The warmth, the euphoria etc. They made him very chatty and happy. He loved nothing more than drinking a few beers on Percocets.

Well, Leigh graduated from Percocets to OxyContins. WOWZERS!!! Oxys with a few beers are quite possibly Leigh's favorite combo of all time. He is very careful with his consumption, especially after a few very close calls with drinking too much alcohol on Oxys.

This started in 2004. He spent the next 5 years recreationally popping Oxys whenever he could get his hands on them, but making sure to take a few days in between each usage.

Well, recently, he found that his 2009 usage of Oxys (which he has very easy access to), are costing him too much money. Leigh loves the feeling of warm, euphoric, comfort. He loves nodding out. But he hates the amount of money he spends on Oxys. They are just too expensive, and seem to really damage his sex drive. Even when he can get an erection, he sweats histamine (correct me if this is not possible), all over his girlfriend. Who gets very itchy. He hates putting strain on his sex life, and hates his girlfriend thinking his lack of sex drive is her fault.

So he decides to venture out and try Kratom.

#1 Kratom is unbelievably inconsistent. He has taken countless different amounts (from a couple teaspoons, up to 5 table spoons.) And he has had very inconsistent results. It works. In fact, Leigh definitely will say Kratom ALWAYS works. If you overdid your opiate intake over the past few weeks, and need a way to help with the restless legs, or the snotty nose, or what have you. Then Kratom is for you. But only one time has Leigh taken Kratom and nodded out. He also felt incredible that time. Which was frustrating... because this particular time Kratom had Leigh euphoric and completely nodding out. Like he took 2 80's of Oxy. Leigh still has no idea why Bali Kratom (from his friend KT's website), has been so inconsistent. And he is often searching for a way to get more consistent results with it, because if it worked like it did that 1 particular time, Leigh would ALWAYS take Kratom. However, it doesn't always see to work.

#2 Kratom is DISGUSTING. Leigh never vomited from nausea, or had nausea from Kratom, for that matter. But Leigh absolutely vomited because of the texture and taste of Kratom. He has no idea how something could be so disgusting. He would toss and wash it, and barf in the middle of it. Which bummed him out, because his stomach could handle the stuff. This only happened a few times. For the most part he could handle the taste, but the results were just too all over the place.

Anyways, Leigh decides until he can solve the Kratom equation, and figure out how to get consistent and magical results, he would venture to other things.

So tonight, after doing extensive research on Poppy Pod tea. Leigh got a shipment from the post man, from some Eastern Bay company auction site.

He took 7 or 8 pod heads. De-seeded them, crushed them, and ground them up in a coffee grinder. He then boiled 2 cups of water, took the water off of the burner right when it started boiling, and poured the powdered grounds into the water to let them seep. The 7-8 pod heads probably amounted to about a half cup of powder. After about 15 minutes, he took the mixture, poured through a towel to strain the goop. Then squeezed every last drop of the tea into a pint glass. In total it filled a pint glass perfectly.

He then drank the first half. Ok, first of all, Leigh finds it absolutely hilarious that people have the nerve to call Poppy Tea bitter tasting. Kratom, in Leigh's opinion, is ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS. Poppy Tea doesn't even taste like anything. It's a little earthy, but you don't even need to sweeten it or flavor it. Just drink it.

He sat for about 5 minutes, felt a break through and warm fuzzy feeling, and then decided to drink the other half. He figured it couldn't be any worse than the time he popped 3 OC 80's and drank a half bottle of wine, and ended up vomiting bile for 4 hours straight. Like... poop puke.

Anyways, it has been 2 hours since he drank it, and he is feeling pretty pleasant. It is definitely heavy. Like OxyMorphone or something. Music is sounding great right now, and he is feeling very very VERY relaxed. It unquestionably is more noticeable and effective than Kratom. And being that he spent $35 on 35 pod heads, as opposed to $35 on 1 80 MG pill of Oxy, he sees this as a great alternative to OxyContin hemmorhaging his bank account.

A few questions Leigh has:

1. Leigh finds that he can't jog with as much strength and stamina when he has been taking opiates the previous day. Leigh wants to know any advice on how to change this. Will poppy tea be different in that regard than Oxy? Leigh apologizes if this is a silly question. He just loves exercising, but also loves opiates to reward a work day. But he definitely notices breathing difficulties when running.

2. Any advice for Leigh on how to get a more consistent result with Kratom? He has tried everything from Grapefruit juice, to V8 etc. He recalls that V8 with Kratom gave him serious euphoria and nods.

3. Is chewing the poppy grounds a better idea than the tea? Leigh enjoys the morphine feel of the tea, but really would rather have the sociable, chatty feel of OC. Without having to take OC.

Leigh understands that these are all opiates. He does not wish to kick opiates, he just wishes for an alternative to OxyContin, but as similar a high as possible.

In fact, anything that isn't an opiate, like an ethnobotanical, that makes people nicer? Leigh likes being empathetic and nice in social situations. So any advice on that would be marvelous.

Thanks,

Gordon
  #2  
Old 21-07-2009, 07:58
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

SWIM finds that Opium makes him very social in a relaxed sort of intellectual way. Sometimes, he invites of few friends over, drinks some pod tea or smoke a little opium, and talk about politics or something for a few hours. SWIM also started with pharm.'s. Norco 10/325's were plentiful and cheap. He lost his contact, but didn't want to kick it. He finds that pods or CFO are less euphoric, more sleepy, and a lot less giggly. Occasionally, he smokes a little MJ to liven it up. Maybe that'll help.

timster7 added 7 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Forgot...All opiates are respiratory despressants. SWIM has had trouble with that, too. The morphine in the tea is the same. No avoiding that. 2nd... Don't eat grounds unless SWIYou wants to vomit. Usually a second soaking of the grounds would be fine. Not much good stuff left anyway. SWIYou could try to make morphine base, if he had the means. Hope SWIM helped a little. I'm sure someone will disagree with eating pod grounds, SWIM doesn't care.

Last edited by timster7; 21-07-2009 at 07:58. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #3  
Old 21-07-2009, 08:20
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

From SWIMs experience eating pods, as mentioned previously, will result in a puke-a-thon, but the high is more intense off less pods. Poppy pods are definately more pronounced than your standard kratom, but strained tea is the way to down pods.

In terms of synthetic vs pods SWIM finds that pods are just as strong as synthetic, if not more, only they induce more nausea, & last longer. SWIM finds that 10-20mg hydrocodone goes well with pods (although depending on SWIYs tolerance this could induce some heavy nausea and vomiting).

While ground kratom leaves aren't very awestriking alone or even with hydrocodone in the mix, the kratom 15x extracts produced a high almost identical to a mix of a hydrocodone and oxycodone high equivalent to about ~30mg @ 2 grams of extracted powder from a reputable vendor. Although extracts tend to be pricey, they certainly have considerable value as pain mitigatrion/recreational value.
  #4  
Old 21-07-2009, 09:12
CrookedEye CrookedEye is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Eating the pods lasts longer for SWIM, but the effects seem to be about the same, although he has read and talked to friends that swear it's more potent, just not in his experience.. SWIM never vomited from eating pods, either, but one's results may vary, as everyone reacts different to different things..
  #5  
Old 25-07-2009, 01:24
Tux27 Tux27 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp66 View Post
Hey guys,
3. Is chewing the poppy grounds a better idea than the tea? Leigh enjoys the morphine feel of the tea, but really would rather have the sociable, chatty feel of OC. Without having to take OC.
This is the only one SWIM can answer, but he'll take his time.

First, SWIM did the tea. Watch temperature, measure amounts of water, etc. He hated doing it, but you know how it goes.

Then, SWIM decided that chewing the pods was much less effort, and not too bad.

After that, SWIM decided to make smoothies. He has a bag of ground(almost powder) pod material, and after he makes a smoothie he is satisfied with(constantly adding stuff to the blender so it tastes just right), he looks at how many cups of smoothie there is, and adds the required amount of pod powder(the taste is barely noticeable at or under 5g/cup for those worried about taste). SWIM enjoys the smoothies because he can take a small-dose one to work for pain relief that lasts four times longer than hydrocodone(how this all started). Also, the pain relief to nod ratio is lower with pods than with hydrocodone(SWIM didn't think nodding was possible with hydrocodone until his pain increased and he started taking handfulls, more than he used for recreation for some reason).

About the efficiency of eating versus brewing tea, SWIM would have to say that eating is more efficient because you consume all the material, and not risk leaving and "good stuff" in the mush laying in the strainer. In SWIM's mind, if a second extraction works, why wouldn't a third(even though obviously to a much lesser degree)? Consuming the material whole makes SWIM happy that he didn't waste any, but he also notices it's more efficient in the amount-to-effect ratio.

Excuse the post which might not make much sense, but SWIM in in a hurry to the pharmacy because it's hydrocodone day(and last of pods was used yesterday). Yeah, SWIM considers his monthly prescription refill days holidays. Anyway, I will edit and apologize if I come back to this and find that SWIM made no sense.
  #6  
Old 25-07-2009, 04:31
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

True. Eating pods gets all of it, but some people react violently. Lots of puke for some. Otherwise, agreed.
  #7  
Old 25-07-2009, 05:21
Frond Frond is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

There is consistent, high-quality Kratom out there. It is against forum rules to mention sources outside of the Trade forums but tell your friend to look around, and also look into different preparation methods. There are different ways to get the best results out of different strains. The Good Knight prefers Maeng Da, however not all Maeng Da is created equal and some clearly is not worth the money, while other strains have yielded consistently excellent results nearly every time. There are extracts that work decently well out there too though extracts will push your friend's tolerance through the roof and get him addicted in no time. Kratom withdrawal symptoms aren't life-threatening but they are unpleasant. The bottom line is that your friend hasn't exhausted the possibilities of what Kratom has to offer and it pays to not get locked into certain preparation methods and instead it is better to experiment until your friend has a solid idea as to the herb's possibilities. But also it pays to be mindful of its addictiveness!

The taste isn't too bad when every gulp is chased down with water or cranberry juice. Beer works well too especially a mega-hoppy IPA like Stone Ruination IPA, which has a flavor strong enough to cut through just about any aftertaste.

However it's not a good idea to mix a lot of substances that depress respiration. A combination of alcohol, opiates, and benzos can put anyone six feet under. A few swigs of beer as a chaser is fine but a night of drinking followed by Kratom, a few Oxys, poppy tea, and a few Valiums for the nerves is a recipe for disaster.

50mg Dramamine helps for nausea. There are other things that work as well - ginger, cannabis, and, incidentally, Datura, at least at medicinal doses which are far below delirium-inducing overdoses. But, no one should ever mess with Datura unless they know exactly what they're doing.

The Good Knight hasn't told me anything about poppy tea as of yet, but with Kratom working quite well he hasn't had the need to touch the Pod. He prefers Kratom over many synthetics qualitatively even if quantitatively it isn't as strong.

There will be a reduction in stamina, as well as ability to focus, and general awareness. Opiates have been very draining on the Good Knight's health and this is the primary reason why he uses them only sporadically. Withdrawal symptoms are only temporary but being unfocused and lethargic day after day from the aftereffects of chronic opiate use is very destructive to one's lifestyle.

Last edited by Frond; 25-07-2009 at 06:29.
  #8  
Old 25-07-2009, 06:21
Tux27 Tux27 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by timster7 View Post
True. Eating pods gets all of it, but some people react violently. Lots of puke for some. Otherwise, agreed.
SWIM's puking advice is below, but SWIM has found that at first, consuming whole pods causes a bit of stomach pain, some food in the stomach fixes that, and eventually it stops bothering you.

The only time SWIM has ever puked from opiates(and he has puked from a few already) was either when he had too much(then it's nobody's fault but yours), or when he had too much for the amount of food in his stomach(which is hard to judge).

A mistake as little as taking 5mg too much hydrocodone would destroy SWIM's buzz because of the nausea. SWIM soon learned that feeling that came right before the nausea kicked in, and he taught himself to cram whatever was around into his stomach. It always worked for him. Now, he found that the easiest way to get rid of the nausea just as it's starting is to run to the fridge and chug milk. A glass or two and it's just like having a meal. This is pretty much the only time SWIM abandons his water-only diet(he just LOVES ice cold water and it's all he drinks), and water does the job, but it's not nearly effective as milk.

Some people say to take opiates on an empty stomach so you don't puke, but SWIM doesn't understand that at all. Opiates on an empty stomach would just make him feel shitty, and he'd just vomit foam.

The OTC nausea-reducers do work, but SWIM's belief is that the stomach content is crucial. If SWIY has problems with nausea, either because of the opiates or not, ask SWIY's doctor to prescribe SWIY Zofran(Ondansetron), it's really a miracle cure for nausea if your insurance covers it. The ODT(orally dissolving tablet) costs the same as the one you swallow, but it works faster, so make sure to specify that SWIY was at the hospital with nausea and they gave him Zofran but he'd like more because of how effective it is. It's actually what hospitals usually give along with intraveinous opiates to prevent nausea. Sorry to preach, but it really is a miracle drug, as SWIM has a lot of non-opiate nausea problems.

For itchiness, Benadryl(diphenhydramine) works the best if it isn't too sedating for you. If it is, Zyrtec(cetirizine) is the best non-sedating antihistamine(fantastic for allergies, too; beats the shit out of Claritin[loratadine]).

And back to SWIM's opinion on some other stuff he forgot to reply to the first time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp66
In fact, anything that isn't an opiate, like an ethnobotanical, that makes people nicer? Leigh likes being empathetic and nice in social situations. So any advice on that would be marvelous.
This is one of the reasons SWIM uses opiates besides for pain, they make every conversation fun and interesting, and make him comfortable in situations that would make him anxious, make everything easier to deal with, and makes him love people in general.

Other drugs that may do this for SWIY would be benzdiazepines

In SWIM's opinion:
Hydrocodone/Oxycodone: do the above, but sometimes SWIM gets really annoyed when he wants to be left alone. If people persist he sometimes gets slightly hostile.
Opium: does the above, but almost impossible to get annoyed or hostile.
Cocaine: SWIM's occasional indulgence which he believes is superior to opiates in this scenario. The coke's not really an ethobotanical, but SWIM had to mention itbecause it has this characteristic for him.

On another note, SWIM's favorite opiate so far is morphine, followed by opium, then hydrocodone, then tramadol, then oxycodone.

Opium has that morphine-like "kick" to it that makes his body tense up with that "oh shit, this is great" face, and SWIM absolutely loves morphine. He has only had IV hospital morphine as it is otherwise unavailable here, but he gets sick with undiagnosable problems often, so he's had a good amount. No idea why he's always sick with something, but I think that's what got him experimenting with medications in the first place.

Hydrocodone was the first discovery for SWIM(he has the most experience with it), which has only recently been surpassed by opium. SWIM doesn't really like oxycodone too much, it seems to make him feel kinda speedy, and just doesn't sit well with him. SWIM thinks tramadol feels like the last part of a hydrocodone high, but the fact that it lasts for so long is why it surpasses oxycodone.

Again, sorry for the long post, just trying to help.
  #9  
Old 26-07-2009, 22:12
Niba Niba is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux27 View Post

On another note, SWIM's favorite opiate so far is morphine, followed by opium, then hydrocodone, then tramadol, then oxycodone.
Say whaaaaaaaat.
  #10  
Old 27-07-2009, 05:45
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Ahhh, tramadol, hydro, and oxy are opioids, aren't they? And Opium is a combination of many opiates.
  #11  
Old 27-07-2009, 05:56
Tux27 Tux27 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by timster7 View Post
Ahhh, tramadol, hydro, and oxy are opioids, aren't they? And Opium is a combination of many opiates.
You are correct, my friend. Sorry about that, SWIM was referring to drugs with similar characteristics and forgot to distinguish between opiates and opioids as he was clumping them together for rating purposes. Nice catch.

Why the confusion, Niba? Oxycodone being at the end?
  #12  
Old 27-07-2009, 10:41
Niba Niba is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux27 View Post
You are correct, my friend. Sorry about that, SWIM was referring to drugs with similar characteristics and forgot to distinguish between opiates and opioids as he was clumping them together for rating purposes. Nice catch.

Why the confusion, Niba? Oxycodone being at the end?
lol yea definitely. Having Tramadol before Oxy anyway. Does it just make swiy to sick or something?
  #13  
Old 28-07-2009, 02:58
Tux27 Tux27 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Well, SWIM only used oxycodone a few times, and it was a while back when he didn't have any tolerance at all(in retrospect, that period seems to last so long then vanish immediately at the worst time). He had been taking hydrocodone already, and compared to the hydrocodone the oxycodone just didn't have the same feeling.

It didn't make him sick, and he did enjoy it, but it seemed to just make him anxious and kind of wound up. Maybe it was just a comparison made out of lack of experience. I guess to really be fair(because SWIM himself was surprised that oxy came after tramadol as he made a list), SWIM would have to try it again with all the experiences he as acquired since then, but unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to find anything except marijuana where SWIM lives.

Around there, Vicodin is the stuff that House takes, and nobody knows how the dosage numbers work. SWIM's had people swear to him that they take two 500mg Vicodin pills a day, even when SWIM pulls a bottle out of his pocket and tries to help them realize that that they're lucky to be alive if they really think they took that much(that's the most common), or they'll multiply the narcotic/OTC numbers to get some preposterous number, and a few times SWIM and friends have sat down with pen and calculator trying to figure out just how the hell a person could have come up with the number they gave him. The easiest is when someone has a "349mg Watson", but SWIM can never get a person to read the imprint on the pill over the phone correctly, and has seen some of the dumbest shit in text messages. "What's written on the pill?" ... "325 mg 10 generic".

OxyContin is something old people take for their backs, and everything else is unheard of. SWIM's had people give him the strangest looks when he's asked about opi[ates/oids], and the only way to get anywhere is to have the various brand names memorized and rattle them off until one sounds familiar. That doesn't really work anyway, though, and you get someone calling you saying "yo, you said naproxen, right?". It is amazing.

Sorry for the long posts, guys, SWIM enjoys talking with like-minded people because they're hard to find around here.
  #14  
Old 30-07-2009, 19:04
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

2 500 mg Vic's would only have about 10 mg of hydrocodone. SWIM doesn't take Vicodin because it's mostly Acetaminophen. Very bad on the liver. He much prefers Norco 10/325. Smaller pill = less filler and acet.
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Old 31-07-2009, 03:11
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

SWIM prefered to grind up about 8 pods into a fine powder and add to a tall glass of grapefruit juice and slam. It's much easier to drink than that gross ass tea and the extra fiber from all the poppy straw helps deal with the constipation issue.
  #16  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:54
Tux27 Tux27 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Quote:
Originally Posted by timster7 View Post
2 500 mg Vic's would only have about 10 mg of hydrocodone. SWIM doesn't take Vicodin because it's mostly Acetaminophen. Very bad on the liver. He much prefers Norco 10/325. Smaller pill = less filler and acet.
Correct, but even with Norco, at the end of the day SWIM's still counting how much acetaminophen he's had. 500 mg per pill helps SWIM conserve by using less daily as opposed to the binge treat of Norco.
  #17  
Old 16-08-2009, 07:01
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

Acetaminophen isn't going to kill SWIYou. SWIM has a bottle of 800 mg Acet. and it's recommended dose is 2, so he doubts 1000 mg is even in the danger zone.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Of course acetaminophen can kill you, dangerous to say it can't
  #18  
Old 20-08-2009, 10:26
timster7 timster7 is offline
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

SWIM simply meant in the context of this situation, the doses of acet. are not going to kill SWIYou. Yes, it will if SWIYou takes the whole bottle. In terms of Vicodin, SWIM hardly thinks the 25g lethal dose or 50 Vicodin is realistic.
  #19  
Old 12-01-2010, 00:15
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

SWIM would recommend simply performing a cold water extraction on any pills which contain acetaminophen. Then one would not have to worry about liver toxicity at all...
  #20  
Old 02-04-2010, 00:12
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Re: Oxy vs. Kratom vs. Pod tea

SWIM has tried Kratom, then pods, then back to kratom, then finally settled on pods. He thinks kratom is too "weak" in that doubling your dose won't really double your pleasure. Pods don't present him with that issue. In fact, sometimes doubling the number of pods has an exponential effect on the pleasure (or makes him nod exponentially faster).

About the pods, swim thinks the tea is easier on the stomach, but that's about the only thing about the tea that swim prefers. Instead, he just grinds the pods, put's in a heaping mouthful, chases it with a chase-worthy liquid (usually gatorade or a smoothie drink...SWIM can't drink red gatorade without tasting pods in them anymore). He swishes a bit, and swallows a giant gulp. It's not the most pleasant thing to do, what with all the grit and what not, but he's got it down to a science, and it takes him about a minute per pod.

SWIM finds this method easier than making tea, since all you need is your grounds and a beverage, and your good to go. No stovetop or microwave, no strainer, just the basics. Also, SWIM definitely will argue that dry ground pods are more potent than tea. This is from his subjective experience, as well as his own logic which says that it must be difficult (if not impossible) to get ALL of the molecules from the pods to the tea, let alone to know how much one has extracted vs. how much is left in the grounds. Eating the grounds must give you 100% of the chemicals. Also, eating the grounds puts food in your stomach, which helps with nausea (if you can call it food). It most certainly does not help with constipation though (unless there is a high enough ratio of real food to grounds in your stomach).

Finally, SWIM likes eating them dry, because they last A LOT LONGER. SWIM usually doses in the morning (6:00 AM), goes to work feeling good, doses again (sometimes) around noon, even if he still feels good, and by 10:00 PM, he is still feeling good. With dry pods, SWIM's nod doesn't end until SWIM retires for the night. With tea, the nod usually ends without causing sleep (on SWIM's morning dose schedule).

That all being said, SWIM like's OC's as well. In fact, he will be getting 30 80's tomorrow. SWIM like's the OC's because they are a single opiate (opioid, I know), whereas the pods are a non-standardized combination of opiates. Some of those opiates (like thebaine) are (what I call) kappa opiates (natural opiates that affect the kappa receptors), which in general suck compared to the mu opiates (like morphine). Since the relative concentrations of pods naturally vary between batches or even individual pods, you really can't be certain of what the experience will be like (all things considered) without testing the material and it's effects. This is why it's best to grind all of the pods together, to make the grounds more homogeneous.

Hope his opinions are helpful. SWIM loves to float.

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