advice for talking to the addict?

[sweettea]

Okay, so swiTea is going to bite the bullet, so to speak and talk with the friend about their secret meth addiction (okay, swiTea is 98% certain it's meth).

The problem for swiTea isn't so much the addiction it's the fact that it hasn't been communicated to swiTea, that is, the lies and deceptions surrounding it swiTea feels her intelligence is being insulted.

SwiTea is feeling insecure about how to approach the subject without the friend getting defensive.

Any advice for how to go about introducing the conversation and carrying it along this? How would swiy'all want a loved one to approach it?

[Moonage Daydream]

In SWIM's own case, her mother asked point blank if she was on speed again. She just said yes, because it was almost a relief to confess, as in all other areas of her life, she is very honest - ie she likes to tell it like it is (in a polite way!) and likes to hear it straight too............................................... .................................................. .................It entirely depends on the kind of character swiy's friend has. Ie in general is s/he defensive and evasive?Does the person respond well to direct talk?SWIM is lucky in that, while her friends and family are none too happy about her habit, they are supportive and honest so she feels she can be straightforward.It would be more of an issue (obviously) if her employer found out (though she NEVER does it at work) Hope this rambling reply sorta helped!?

[sweettea]

Well, the foaf typically isn't defensive nor evasive and has always been open and honest about having done this-n-that, which is why this is particularly perplexing to swiTea. Frankly, swiTea doesn't care as long as the habit doesn't affect the relationship, work, life-goals, etc. The foaf knows this b/c conversations have been had on numerous occasions about drug use in general. (Although swiTea might be fooling herself on this one b/c it already is affecting things, eg, the foaf forgot to give swiTea's epileptic dog his meds! grrrr!)

SwiTea had expected the foaf to broach the subject without prodding, and had resolved to not even bother with the disscussion, except a couple of things has swiTea wondering about lies/deception in general and the implications on personal relationships. If it is easy and comfortable for the foaf to lie/deceive on this subject why not others? It ultimately erodes at trust swiTea is beginning to think.

And yes, with all other things big and small the foaf appreciates the honest open communication with swiTea.

swiTea is just a bit scared about this particular subject because well... obviously eh?

And swiTea's intellect is somewhat bruised b/c she thought the foaf had some respect for her intelligence, but evidently not.

Thanks for the input Moonage, it is most appreciated (^_^)

[SmokeRings]

SWIM wonders what makes OP 98% sure? Background on your relationship w/person, etc would be helpful. Has this person used meth in the past? When you have these convo's about drugs, is meth in particular brought up? If so, how? SWIM is just curious as to why OP thinks it's meth, without actually have found any, or caught their friend, etc.

[Moonage Daydream]

Thats a very good point, Smoke Rings. But maybe Sweet Tea has known others who definitely were on meth? and knows what to look for? Is that true?

Moonage Daydream added 5 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

Because when the cat talks about drugs, and she has to be pretty comfy with the person concerned to chat about that, (and will hardly ever bring up the subject unprompted) it has to be said it is mainly about speed! - because she doesn't like the others!A slight reluctance to discuss this subject isn't really motivated so much by deception as not wanting to bore the other person, if consuming drugs of any kind isn't part of their lives (and swim knows plenty of people who don't - other than alcohol). Is there an element of that?_____________________________________________ _____________________________Poor dog, by the way! Moonage is crazy about animals (especially cats and dogs, hence feline personae!)

[sweettea]

Fack, a post swiTea thought went up didn't... so how about a do-over...

Why does swiTea think it's meth, swiTea has stumbled upon...

1. Wee little bags with leftover white powdery stuff (not crystallized)
2. The powder tastes very bitter and chemically
3. A burnt test-tube with a small hole just up from the base
4. Occasionally a chemical\electrical burning smell lingering in a room,
5. flick-flick of a lighter in a closed room when swiTea figures the foaf is indulging
6. Insulin needles
7. Used insulin needle and a spoon with a cooked substance on it, substance tasted bitter and chemically
8. When swiTea touches the foaf's skin it is "tingly", the foaf sweats when really the foaf shouldn't be, a faint chemically smell and taste on the foafs sweat. The foaf is sometimes rather itchy and scratchy, and suffers from not sleeping well following indulgences.

Over insulin needles a pretty decent lie, it was obvious swiTea had been cleaning jars etc., on the top of the fridge the foaf says something about finding insulin needles from when the foafs dog had diabetes. Not a bad lie but (1) the receipt along with the needles was dated long after the old dog was dead, and (2) swiTea has a veterinary degree and has read the old dog's medical records.

As for the relationship... swiTea has known the foaf for a number of years through the same social circle. swiTea lived away for a long time, kept in touch, etc, and the two have been intimately aquainted for about two years. swiTea knows fully well the foaf has a varied and colorful drug past, especially considering the social circle. And the foaf has always been open about this. But in recent history, alcohol has been the drug of choice for the foaf. The foaf has never elaborated upon, nor denied using meth in the past.

It may not be meth it could be something else, but that isn't really the issue for swiTea. The issue is the lie/deception about it. If this is easy to lie/deceive about why not lie/deceive over other issues? And dagnabit! swiTea _really_ doesn't like being thought of as to stupid to figure this one out -- it's an ego thing.

Conversations about drugs... the foaf knows full well that swiTea doesn't consider drug usage to be a problem or an issue, unless it becomes a problem in regards to relationships, work, life-goals, health, etc. This situation is, to some extent, becoming a "problem" b/c swiTea is questioning the trust in the relationship.

As for having known persons partaking in meth, there's a relative that went into a downward spiral, lost home, family, wife, kids, business, health etc. swiTea hasn't actually seen someone use meth -- but that's about the only thing she's not seen folk partake in.

[Moonage Daydream]

kitty knows what swiy means about betrayal of trust, that would bother her too. No one confronts her as those she would not like to know have no idea what to look for.Those that do ask are those she would not mind knowing anyway, as she trusts them as friends.So it is almost like sweet tea foaf doesn't trust her either if is being so secretive, an upsetting situation all round.Hope in some way it becomes resolved.

[sweettea]

It's really reassuring to hear that swiYou prefers not to have secrets bout this stuff between close friends. I expect (or at least hope) that a portion of this is tied up into not wanting swiTea to fret over losing a rather important license, if the activity were made public, and the social stigma attached to recreational drugs in general.

By the way, swiTea's pooch is just fine he's been seizure free for 10 months (thanks to phenobarbital) and his liver is in good condition!

[Moonage Daydream]

thats good about switea dog!Seriously even if swim had been up 3 days and wasn't able to talk properly cause of brain too fast/mouth too slow or the other way about, she would still feed her cat and make sure he was ok.Swim reckons that there should be as few secrets between friends as possible, though she recognises the difficulty in talking about various subjects, not just drugs actually but maybe discussing sexuality with fervent Christians!Without wanting or meaning to, swim avoids certain subjects with certain people, because of perceived notions of discomfort........................................ .......Bloody hell human beings are just too complicated! and how we tie ourselves in knots!

[sweettea]

LOL love the "sexuality with fervent Christians" egads, swiTea is in the bible buckle these days and lordy lou, try discussing boy-girl-boy or girl-boy-girl or boy-girl-boy-girl or even toys around the buckle --- next thing you know, they want to perform an exorcism!Sexuality in a Christian environment is probably it's own thread. swiYou really wants some amusement, read "Sex in the South".

swiTea doesn't usually have any hang ups discussing anything, with anyone but I dunno, this is new territory.

[Swimster]

For me, i learned about how drugs cause brain damage and stopped immediately! Try to read how it works on the brain and let them know how they are erasing themselves. And how they will be really insecure. And last, try talking about love. I still have hard time with it.

[sweettea]

Originally Posted by Swimster

And last, try talking about love. I still have hard time with it.

Talking about it, finding it, or giving in to it?

[Moonage Daydream]

Originally Posted by sweettea

Talking about it, finding it, or giving in to it?

All three, at times! But swim knows that was not directed at her...Anyway good luck the cheetah says she has pretty much contributed what she can

[sweettea]

Thanks to the cheetah et. al, going to tackle it this evening swiTea reckons before an over-analysis occurs. Peace.

[ex-junkie]

lol swiy should do what swiys mum used to do whenever she found drug paraphernalia or empty bags, etc around the house. she would leave it in plain view on the kitchen bench, then say, "oh, you left this on the floor/etc".

:P

without pressing for confrontation or further conversation. it just sorta lets them know that youre not stupid, and know whats going on.

then when theyre ready to speak about it, they will.

[cra$h]

Well, if you do confront this person, and they confess to whatever drug it is, just don't sound generic. When people confront swim and say "that shit aint no good man, you're gonna die" or "if you get into that i'll punch you in the face" or anything else the DEA would say, swim just ignores them and wonders who to call for the next fix. Make it personal and VERY relitive to what's happening now. The future doesn't matter. Threatening won't work either, they'll see the bluff right away. Show them how far their life has come the last couple years compared to other friends, and they'll see they're far behind or something. Prove that the drugs that were fixing a problem have created another

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very true with regards to making it personal, good suggestions.

[SmokeRings]

Has the convo happened yet? Why exactly, other than the friend not telling you, does it matter what they do? SWIM isn't judging, just curious. SWIM would understand if the friend was f'ing up, or something, but to SWIM, doesn't sound like that's really the issue. Sounds like you are just upset because the friend hasn't told you. In the long run, does it matter?

[Newestnewbie]

I know trust is your major concern, but it seems the health of this foaf should also be taken into consideration. Even if swiy doesn't care about drug use in general, there comes a point that it does cause permanent harm. Case in point: the lying. It would be difficult watching the downward spiral if this isn't caught soon.

[sweettea]

Originally Posted by SmokeRings

In the long run, does it matter?

It matters very much in the long run. It establishes a pattern or comfortably (for lack of a better descripton), of lying/deception to someone the user has an intimate long-term relationship with. Take it a step further, if the foaf is happy enough to lie/deceive about drug use then why not other issues? like.... love (why should this be believed?), sex (is non-high sex just an obligation fuck?), finances (how much is this costing in the long run?) etc., big issues in relationships for most people.

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

lol swiy should do what swiys mum used to do whenever she found drug paraphernalia or empty bags, etc around the house. she would leave it in plain view on the kitchen bench, then say, "oh, you left this on the floor/etc"....without pressing for confrontation or further conversation. it just sorta lets them know that youre not stupid, and know whats going on. ...then when theyre ready to speak about it, they will.

Oh, this has been tried, to no avail.

Originally Posted by Newestnewbie

I know trust is your major concern, but it seems the health of this foaf should also be taken into consideration. Even if swiy doesn't care about drug use in general, there comes a point that it does cause permanent harm. Case in point: the lying. It would be difficult watching the downward spiral if this isn't caught soon.

Can't even go into the health issue right now.

Originally Posted by SmokeRings

Has the convo happened yet?

Yep, it sure has. swiTea approached it as a "we" issue not a "you" did this to "me" issue. Instead, basically saying, swiTea has known about this for a very long time, and it's beginning to spill over into other aspects of the relationship, in particular with trust. It's causing the normally very trusting swiTea to become jaded and skeptical and swiTea doesn't like those feelings or being that way. The foaf hadn't looked at if from that perspective, and isn't particularly keen on jaded sarcastic swiTea. The foaf had been looking at it from their perspective and the struggling issue of being labeled as a "user", "addict", etc.... Which swiTea understands b/c outside of this community swiTea hasn't discussed this with anyone.

swiTea was honest (and will continue to be) and made certain that the conversation didn't go defensive and took alot of care to make sure nothing was accusatory. swiTea also was careful to introduce the topic when the foaf wasn't using, fixing to use, or just off using!

swiTea is growing as a person and is trying, but must admit that being the loved one of a user is a difficult position to be in.

[dyingtomorrow]

The only way to reach someone with a bad addiction I think is seemingly complete acceptance of what they are doing, reassurance that you care about them/love them/are their friend, and gentle, subtle pushing. Make them think about what they really care about that they are sacrificing for drugs. When you go on the offensive though, they naturally go on the defensive. If you can relate to addiction it helps too, or at least think about it and try and imagine it. SWIM doesn't give much credence to what people who haven't experienced addiction have to say to him.

What not to say (stupid sounding voice):
"Just use your willpower ..."
"Stop pitying yourself ..."
"If you don't stop I'm gonna ..."

Also, don't give them money or help them with their addiction ever. That's very important if you want to remain their friend and help them off of it as quickly as possible.

[SmokeRings]

SWIM is sorry, she didn't realize the foaf was the OPs lover/partner/whatever. SWIM thought it was just a friend, hence the "why does it matter" and somewhat flippant way she communicated. If the OP is in a relationship w/the person, that is a LOT different. SWIM really thought it was just a friend, didn't realize it did affect the OP so dramatically!
Uh yeah, SWIM would be super pissed if her significant other was using and trying to hide it! No question about it!
Sorry bout that.
SWIM is glad to hear the talk happened and it went well! Hopefully you two can figure out this thing together!

[cra$h]

Doesn't matter if it's a friend, lover, mother or complete stranger, someone who needs a hand needs a hand. Actually, if a stranger came up to swim and asked if swim needs help, they'd re-evaluate their life more than if their mother said something. If they say no, there's not much you can do, but if who knows, they might open up!

[SmokeRings]

The OPs friend wasn't asking for help, as far as SWIM can tell. If SWIM had a friend who was using and was ruining their lives, then yes, by all means SWIM would step in, but for SWIM, what one does in the privacy of their own home, isn't hurting anyone (but themselves obviously) and all that stuff, well, it's none of SWIMs or anyone else's business, but that's just SWIMs opinion.
SWIM is an advocate for legalization of all drugs, if someone wants to kill themselves, well, it's not our choice to make. Again, there are stipulations, like stated above, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. SWIM is also strongly against drug use around children of any age. Period. No questions.
To SWIM, the OPs main issue was simply that their friend hadn't told them. Again, SWIM read wrong and thought it was JUST a friend.
SWIM just isn't intrusive on people's lives. The OP asked for opinions/suggestions/advice, SWIM was simply giving it.
What doesn't matter to one, matter's to another. Opinions are an interesting thing, aren't they!