Opinions - Is Salvia a good psychedelic to start with?

[DanK]

Hello all. I am new here and have a few questions for any experienced users to answer. I have this freind who is very similar to me. He wants to know if Salvia is a good psychadelic to start with. He has previously tried marijuana, no other drugs. He used to smoke weed relatively frequently but quit about 6 months ago. He is very interested in psychology, specifically topics such as dreams and reality. He is not looking for a drug to have fun with. He wants to try a drug that can potentially give him a revelation and discover more about himself and reality. However,he is looking for the safest drugs, one with the least potential for permanent psychological damage. He is debating between Salvia and shrooms and he can get both very easily. Which is better for revelations and beneficial, life changing trips? Which is safer for the mind? He can REALLY use some good advice, thanks.

[corvardus]

Salvia is NOT a drug to have fun with in the respect to which SWIY appears to mean it. Marijuana is nothing compared to Salvia, completely different ball game.

Salvia is a κ-opioid receptor agonist and is dysphoric so your friend is liable to not like the experience as he is in the middle of it, but after he has had time to reconstitute the experience he might like to experience it again.

Salvia, if taken correctly and in the correct frame of mind can open your friend up to whole new universes of feeling and thought.

Keep in mind that "psychological damage" is up to the person involved. To the weak minded perhaps Salvia can knock you over the edge. SWIM looks on Salvia like Terrence McKenna looks on Mushrooms. Salvia can't kill you, it can only convince you that it can kill you.

Luckily for Salvia it is a 10 minute wonder and then you return to sobriety. As such even if the experience is bad you can keep reminding him that the experience is nearly over. SWIM thinks it is the better choice by far, but not having had any mushrooms that did diddly SWIM can't compare the two experiences.

From what SWIM understands the Salvia is more intense of the two.
SWIM really recommends that you start off with a x6 or perhaps x10 salvia, treat it with the respect it deserves and expect the unexpected. Get SWIY or your friend to treat it with respect. Try and have one of you sober and don't be like a stupid Youtube retard and laugh your head off if he is in terror. He is liable to discover more about himself but it might not be in nice kind of way.

Allow time for him to reconstitute his consciousness once he returns. SWIM really suggests reading the experiences forum since it will give you a range of experiences one can expect. It appears to be different for everyone.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	reading experience reports is useful advice
	good information

[Vocotrash829]

SWIM has had both amazing and terrifying experiences on Salvia, but SWIM appreciates both.

For better or worse, it shows you an aspect of reality that is normally impossible to see or experience.

Cordarvus is correct in starting off small. SWIM personally recommends a partial bowl of a low grade extract, 5x or 10x, WITH A SITTER (can't stress that enough). Don't pack a massive bowl and take a huge rip on SWIY's first experience. Some can smoke an obscene amount and only have the giggles, others will trip on a miniscule amount. It's all about SWIY's personal tolerance. If SWIY doesn't have a vision on the first few attempts, that's fine. It isn't worth overdoing it. Find SWIY's tolerance. You wouldn't rappel off a cliff if you didn't know how much weight your rope could hold. Similarly, SWIY shouldn't step into something unknown without a clear understanding and proper setup.

Also, be sure a sitter is a trusted friend who understands what's going on. An immature friend trying to "heighten the trip" could do some psychological damage that may jade SWIY to the sage, or send SWIY into a depression. It's preferable if the sitter has used Salvia and can relate to what's going on.

So to answer the question, Salvia is good to start with, if only because the trip lasts such a short time. If SWIY only gets the giggles the first time, don't stress. If SWIY doesn't feel optimistic or positive going into it, again, don't stress. There's always another day. Just be safe. SWIM once was a wreck for days because of a bad trip (that was entirely SWIM's fault for being irresponsible). But SWIM has never had a traumatic trip when doing things correctly.

Reputation Comments on this post:

This is an excellent, informative post, and spells out why it is wise to start small.

[Imafish]

I see no reason why any psychedelic is "better" for a first time user. They will open a whole new world which i dont think anything can truly prepare you for. All hallies are intense, so the best advise my Platypus can give to your friend is to do it in a place he will feel safe. for example, his house (at a time that he wont get caught if he lives with his folks). or a friends house. privacy is key to the first trip (that would make a party a bad time to do it, right?). Other than that, my platypus suggests trying a small amount of about 10x salvia, gradually increasing the dose with increasing confidence. Platty also says to smoke it at a much higher temp than weed. he uses a torch with a bong for good effects.

and as they say at Erowid: Know your mind, Know your body, KNOW YOUR SUBSTANCE.

Reputation Comments on this post:

This defies logic. 'Know your substance' as you quote means every susbstance is different. Therefore one will be better ...

[DanK]

so SWIM, SWIM, and your Platypus all think SALVIA is better for a first trip than shrooms? keep in mind my friend wants a profound experience with as little side effects as possible.

[Alfa]

Salvia divinorum is far from the optimal introduction to psychedelics. It is not subtle, nor does it slowly unveil what psychedelic effects are like. Salvia divinorum is extremely frightening to many people.
Its one of the last drugs on earth I would advise to start off with.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the useful advice

[Alias: V]

Alfa, I respectfully disagree. Salvia was the very first thing that my friend, W, smoked. Before weed, before shrooms, salvia. Yeah, he laughed his head off, but not before having the most profound experience of his life up to that point. He smoked a good lungful of 5x after meditating for the entire day leading up to it. He smoked it under a clear, starry sky surrounded by trees in a peaceful little grove. He was surrounded by friends he trusted.

Unfortunately Salvia did sort of "turn down the volume" on the other psychoactives for W. Nothing can blow you away after you've taken Salvia, or at least that's his experience. But W thinks that because he isn't blown away by other substances like he was on his first trip, it has helped him pull more from his experiences and remember more from them. I'd say that if you are looking into self-exploration and insight, based on what W has told me, Salvia would be a good first trip. Just remember, respect it, use it around trusted friends, and (preferably) use it outside. And don't do anything illegal!

Reputation Comments on this post:

JUSt the kind of advice i was seeking. thanks

[readeadamie]

SWIM's first ever trip was on Mexican cubensis magic mushrooms (his second was 15x salvia). After bout 30 mins things started to seem a bit "funny" and hazy and my mind began to wander. Soon SWIM was laughing uncontrollably. When SWIM would close my eyes he was transported to amazing different worlds. At this point SWIM started to appear out of it so SWIM and his friends brought SWIM to the nearby park. As SWIM and his Friends were walking SWIM slipped into a trance, he was in a scene from the bible... the crucifixion. There was a large crowd gathered, a blood red sky, SWIM was on the cross to the left of Jesus, and the other thief was on a cross to his right. Jesus turned to me and looked at me with a tear running down his cheek. At that point SWIM felt that I knew what it was like for him and respected and admired that. I understood his suffering and SWIM felt forgiven, as though his sins were abolished,(SWIM is religious, but not a christian.) This vision nonetheless had a profound effect on me. SWIMs first mushroom trip was like communion but not the kind you receive at mass. I actually felt cleansed. There was a weight lifted off my shoulders and for a long time after the use of the mushrooms I had a much more positive view of my life and the world around me. SWIM was in awe and tears started pour from my eyes with happiness (SWIM's friends thought SWIM was freaking out, SWIM didn't even know they were there.) On the same trip SWIM had a vision of the appocolypse, mushroom clouds rising off the globe. Nothing scary though just the mushrooms reminding people we need to look after the earth if we want it to last. Also on mushrooms SWIM feels a great connection with nature and even the universe, SWIM has experienced out of body experiences, talked (in colours would you believe) with "other entities" and resolved some issues with the spirit of a dead friend. SWIM's never had a bad time on magic mushrooms but if SWIY do take a valium (if available), it'll relax SWIY and stop a bad trip. As for Salvia, SWIM's actually done it much more times than mushrooms (because it's easier to get I guess) but SWIM don't like it (smoked). It can and is a great tool for self exploration and shamanic pursuits but SWIM finds that every time he smokes it, it's terrifying, kinda like a panic attack. It kicks in in like 20 seconds or so after you inhale the hit (if you smoke it right) and is VERY intense. It' is short lasting. At a reasonable dose mushrooms last about 4-6 hours of tripping and after effects for another hour or two, with salvia you trip balls for about 5 or 10 minutes but sometimes up to 30 and it might seem like a lot longer, then you stop hallucinating but are in a weird state of mind for the next 30 - 60mins (alot of people find this not quite back to normal state relaxing and enjoyable). You're generally completely back to normal within an hour of smoking it. SWIM would highly recomend mushrooms as your first trip (just don't dose too high), theyre happier and more clear headed. SWIM find's salvia very dissorientating (you cant do things like... anything really, walk around, converse, listen to music or watch t.v.) and SWIM find the experiences difficult to remember immediately after smoking, bits and pieces of the trip come back bit by bit gradually. SWIM's mushroom trip memories are very vivid and will stick with him. SWIM prefers the trippiness of mushrooms better too everything's bright and colours are super vivid, lot's of tracers, morphing, melting, swirling, fogginess, changing brightness, and all other sorts of mad things really. When SWIM's on salvia SWIM often forgets that he's on a drug, forget what everything around him is, get confused, panic, and then trip balls. The trips are usually very abstract and weird (kinda like an M.C. Escher painting), but SWIM have had some very vivid trips of specific things (weird things that i was troubled by for some time after the associated trips). SWIM's learned alot from both Mushrooms and Salvia, but SWIM would recommend mushrooms as a starter. Every mushroom trip SWIM has had SWIM considers being a cleansing and spiritual experience. Mushrooms have given SWIM many great insights and gave him the inspiration to change his life for the better. Salvia on the other had I find very interesting but ultimitely quite intimidating because of it's sheer intensity and power. If SWIY does try Salvia SWIM's advice would to be to use it the traditional way and chew it (this is how it is used by the Mazatec indians). Forget about smokeable extracts and buy some pure salvia leaves. Not fortified leaves, just plain ol' 1x. About 6-10g of dried leaves is a dose. Potency of leaves can vary. You can either remoisten the leaves in a little water, and pop em in your mouth but I just powder them while they're dry and pop em in and let the saliva moisten them. Hold the leaves in your mouth for 20-30mins. Alternate between chewing the leaves and holding them under your tongue and on you cheeks. Say chew for 5 then hold for 5 and repeat until it's time to spit them out. Oh, forgot to mention they taste pretty bitter (you get used to it after a bit) and it's not very comfortable having a mouth FULL of leaves and spit for so long. Once SWIY spits them out SWIY should brush there teeth cause there'll be bits of salvia leaf all over them. Make sure you finish before the trip starts. Oral salvia is very different to smoked salvia the onset of the effects is much more gradual. It comes on slowly over 10 or 20 minutes rather than 20 to 60 seconds when smoked. This slower come up allows you time to settle into the trip SWIM finds and because of this he does not experience the panic or terror of smoked experiences. The actual trip is between 30 and 90 mins long with the aftereffects lasting 30-120 mins. When SWIM does salvia orally he chews, holds, spits, brushes teeth, lies in bed in the dark until he gradually forgets where he is and the visions come. This way SWIM tends to fall asleep once the main tripping is over (this suits him as he's not fond of the aftereffects), this often leads to more intense and colourful dreams. SWIM usually feels great on awakening the next morning like he was reborn. SWIM would reccomend mushrooms, then plain salvial leaf orally, then smokeable salvia extract. But remember when doing hallucinogens do them somewhere SWIY feel safe, with people SWIY like and know well and have somebody to look after SWIY in case you do something dangerous and don't realise what you're doing. One of my friends tried salvia for the first time at a party recently. He cleared a full bowl (I think it was 15 or 20x) in a bong and held it for a good 30 seconds. A moment later he dropped the bong and jumped up with look of pure fear on his face. (We were out the back garded of a house at a party) He started talking gibberish, running around, bumping into people and rolling around on the ground. Then he said it was too noisy outside so he went inside wher Slipknot was blaring and that freaked him out even more. SWIM brought him back outside and tried to calm him but he was hysterical. SWIM found a bed for him in a quiet room and got him some water about an hour and 20 minuts after he smoked the salvia he relaxed, ate some food and was able to talk and function normally again. SWImyfriend was almost put of hallucinogens because of this and wont try salvia again but has since tried mescaline and LSD and enjoyed them both. Sorry bout the length of this post but to sum it up both mushrooms and salvia are very spiritual and insightful but mushrooms are euphoric and giggly while salvia although not in all cases (everyone reacts different) make SWIM disphoric and panicky and makes me laugh uncontrollably in a kinda manic/spastic fashion, and it can make you drool cause it makes you release saliva. Makes you sweat buckets for a min or two aswell. And if you're looking to learn more about yourself and reality, this is certainly possible but I generally forget who I am when I'm on it, and question reality afterwards. Mushrooms have helped me learn alot about myself though, helped me deal with grievances, increased my respect for the earth, and when you're on them things can sometimes seam more real than when sober.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	great advice. i will strongly consider it
	Very detailed reports.

[cra$h]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Salvia divinorum is far from the optimal introduction to psychedelics. It is not subtle, nor does it slowly unveil what psychedelic effects are like. Salvia divinorum is extremely frightening to many people.
Its one of the last drugs on earth I would advise to start off with.

If your talking about something like 80x, then I'd completely agree, but if the x was lowerd to under 20x, it's a great introduction to salvia. It's really unlike any other psychedelic and can only be kinda compared to DMT so it's on its own. But to prepare for the psychedelic experience, you have to have the psychedelic mindset. Happy go lucky attitude with an emphisis on love and sharing. Prett much become a hippy haha. Being crunk would be a half decent way to prepare. You have the gravity distortion from the alcohol, and the weed CEV's can help prepare for the experience, especially mixed with the spins.

The short durration is also a good way to prepare for drugs like mushrooms and LSD. Before you know it the trips over so in the event of a bad trip, it's not going to leave a swimmer running around for hours and the gravity distortion will probably leave swiy knocked on their ass.

Overall, at a mild extract, salvia wouldn't be too bad to use as the first psychedelic, but swiy will find it's a lot different than the "conventionals"

[Macee]

Please turn your wall-o-text into something a little easier to read, by reading the first few lines it seems like a good experience, but very hard to read.

[mr.mackey]

Swim feels what Alfa and others were saying is true, salvia is not a good introduction to the world of psychedelics, Especially because it is drastically different (for swim at least) from the serotonergic "traditional" psychedelics, swim finds it to be more bizzare than any of them, so he recomends mushrooms for the better beginners psychedelic

[troywhalen]

Well so far, the only psychadelic SWIM has done is Salvia, and he had a fun time on it. Make sure your friend isn't around anyone who will not take it seriously or who will try to mess around with him, because it will have VERY insane effects on him during the trip, and after and he will feel like hes dying and he could become very violent.

Make sure your friend is in a very good environment, NEVER by himself while hes doing it, and that he learns his limit. If he takes a hit and it doesn't work, advise him not to take another as the first hit may kick in (SWIM's first time it actually took a minute before the mild trip started, probably because he was using a shitty pipe)

[sandoz1943]

Salvia has a short durration and if it doesnt agree with you its over very quickly however not Salvia doesn't agree with everyone and it is very intense and totaly immersive. You are IN the trip and this can be too intense for some. It is also important to know that some people will get up and act out durring the Salvia trip. I would strongly suggest you check out some of the videos on youtube. Note acting out doesn't happen to everyone but its important to know that it can happen and be sure your sitter knows this can happen and how to deal with it if it does.
Mushrooms on the other hand last much longer and if it doesn't agree with you the trip can feel like forever. Proper prepration and and a good enviroment can help insure the trip stays positive. Mushrooms also tend not to be so intense and in SWIMs opinion more user friendly.

[`ForlornSage`]

Aside from alcohol, Salvia was SWIM's first psychoactive. SWIM has never smoked an extract - only used the quid method - but wouldn't trade her first experience with Salvia for anything. It took about 5 attempts to get it to work, but the experience was incredibly enlightening and eliminated all of SWIM's anger towards the BS she saw in the world. The trip was over in 30 minutes or so and SWIM felt completely refreshed for a long time afterwards. She also felt as though there was no need to do it again. Salvia is the only psychedelic SWIM has tried though, so she has nothing to compare. (Besides marijuana, which SWIM doesn't like at all.) SWIM would not recommend smoking a really strong extract for the first time, based on seeing others' experiences.

[Stradivarius]

Salvinorin is the strongest psychoactive substance in terms of how far can it get you, and 2nd strongest comparing dosage.As far as i know.
So no, it's not a good psychedelic to start with.One should try weed and alcohol first to get used to party psychoactives and then maybe move to dxm for a peek in the brainfuck area.

[MisterV]

SWIM had once some dried salvia and an extract. Both were smoked with a crackpipe. SWIM only felt some kind of dizziness lasting one to several minutes. But thats only SWIMs experience, no idea why it caused those effects.

First SWIY should know that salvia should not ( and could not) be compared to an other psychedelic substance. And he should not start with it.

SWIM started his psychonautic career with some magic mushrooms, at a low dosage, in a good setting and with a friend. SWIM never regret it!

[rhcpeppers1234]

Swim will answer your question in one word. NO!

Reputation Comments on this post:

gotta elaborate, simple answers are useless

[cra$h]

The answer's meaningless without a little elaboration. Getting a couple yays and a couple nays make it impossible to make a decent judgement.

[cra$h]

that actually is the best bet. As for the comparison between salvia and mushrooms,
Mushrooms:
much longer
not as visual
more spiritual
easier to socialize (great for philosophy!)
easy to fuction, but motor skills effected (at low-medium doses)
easier to contol, a change in scenery can do wonders

Salvia:
very short
very visual and very chaotic to say the least
less spiritual, but great for creativity (especially artwork)
impossible to even speak durring the peak
tough to use motor skills (keep an eye on the bong!)
tough to control (actually, don't even bother trying to control, the trip will go bad/less effect)

There's the basics, and when it comes to psychedelics a lot of it depends on personal opinion. a lot of people don't like salvia because of how chaotic it can get, but if you just let it take hold, that chaos turns into a fluid motion

[demon_candy]

SWIM does find it a hard question to answer, because depending on the extract amount, Salvia can be stronger and more intense than other psychoactives, however shorter lasting, so if SWIY does have a bad trip, it will be over in a few minutes.

SWIM has had experience with other psychoactives prior to Salvia, so it is hard to say for sure. However, SWIM has had bad trips before, and the worst part was that they took so long to be over, and SWIM was still hung over the next day. Salvia, to SWIM's experience, was good in that respect, and generally never has had bad feelings from it the next day.

SWIM thinks that at low doses and extract levels (say under 15x), Salvia would be a good psychoactive to start with. SWIM also agrees with SWIY cra$h, that any psychoactive experience also very much depends on one's attitude going into it.

SWIM is not sure a psychoactive that has a rather long duration aspect (4+ hours) such as Magic Mushrooms, would be necessarily good for a first time user. Especially because a bad trip could take a quite a long time to come down from. However, as with Salvia, a much lower dosage may not last quite as long and considerably be quite pleasurable.

SWIM thinks that it is up to SWIY, but has a had time recommending to a first time user something that lasts for quite a bit longer (might want to put a whole day aside) over something that is over within 15 minutes, and there are no considerable hang over effects to a user. However, if SWIY is looking for a spiritual journey and a longer mental experience, SWIM would recommend Magic Mushrooms over any other psychoactives.

[Aristokratom]

I would have to agree that Salvia is not the best to start with, especially if you are going to smoke it. In Swim's experiences:

Mushrooms = Altered perception
Salvia = Altered reality.

Salvia can, like many people have mentioned, be extremely frightening. Either way, if you are going to try Salvia, DO YOUR RESEARCH!! Know what you are getting into as much as you can(there is no way to truly prepare yourself for a full blown Salvia experience, but a little preparation can go a long way). Use it respectfully when the opportunity presents itself(mood, setting, etc.)

[cra$h]

I'm pretty sure swim had smoked salvia before mushrooms, which probably explains his soft spot for the divine sage. But I agree with doing your research. The more you know the better. Don't worry, you could read every trip report in the world, and your mind will still be blown either way.

I wonder what swidank finally chose...

[Aristokratom]

Originally Posted by cra$h

Don't worry, you could read every trip report in the world, and your mind will still be blown either way.

Quoted for Truth!

Sorry readeadamie, but i really did have to chuckle at your wall of text. Guess Im in one of those moods

[Aristokratom]

Also, I always wonder why so many people overlook plain leaf? It seems a fair amount of people tend to point at extracts when advising new swimmers on what to start with. Now I know plain leaf has little or no effect on some people, but on the other hand, many people can achieve pretty intense effects with plain leaf.

Plain leaf is cheap, can be grown easily, and pretty easy to handle as far as dosing(ie, if you don't have a scale, it can be a lot more forgiving to to have a little extra compared to extracts). Even if unfortified leaf doesn't give one a breakthrough, it can give that person a little insight as to what Salvia has to offer.

IMO, Salvia should be approached with patience, persistence, and respect. There is really nothing to lose by starting with plain leaf. Worse case scenario is you are out a few dollars rather than starting with a stronger extract than can frighten one into "Salvia Celibacy", as well as having possible prolonged phycological problems! And even if one doesn't gain the desired effects from plain leaf at first, with reverse tolerance, you may find that leaf pretty handy down the road.

So yea, just my 2 cents on new Salvia swimmers. Many succesful experiences to all

zep

[RainbowStorm]

Dank and anyone else interested (this is quite an old thread) think about it this way, salvia divinorum is completely legal in a lot of places and has, so far, zero recorded side effects, long or short term have been recorded. So why not!?