Side effects - Heroin and sleep

[Donmeka]

SWIM smokes black tar being on the west coast of the USA (WESTSIYEED!) and smoked a good .5 yesterday and last night and was faded feeling great noddy and whatnot but could not sleep for the death of him lol. maybe it was the itchyness but it has happened to SWIM before when he was so high he could not sleep. and of all days when SWIM must go apply for a job in 3hrs. luckily he took 30mg adderall and is feeling great and awake now but it is a pain in the ass. SWIM forgets but he tries to remember to not smoke 2-3hrs before sleepy time because this has happened before. but of course we all know how hard it is to save that last itty bitty peice for the morning until u can score again. (SWIM can never buy large amounts, it is gone in a day easy lol)


point of the post: has this happened and whats the deal? is it all the histamines and itchyness or w/e or whats the science behind this?

[zulu1690]

swim only had the staying awake part when swim first started using H,and the itchy part aswell.

[Routemaster Flash]

SWIDonmeka might be interested to look at this thread: "Is it always this hard to sleep on opiates?" http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...=opiates+sleep

Coincidentally SWIM had some poppy tea last night, and spent the night drifting in and out of consciousness (in a good way!) even after taking 100mg diphenhydramine. So yes, it's quite common for opiates of any kind to keep people up.

[zulu1690]

when swim first started on the gear swim was a courier driver which was sweet for swim cos swim was always awake and itchy scratchy but as dependence grew swim used to think swims alarm clock was just something in swims dreams.swim then had to find another courier firm to work for and was duly sacked when swim was picking up a load at 5am and swim was 10 minutes early so swim thought that was a good time for a quick boot,until a phonecall from swims boss to clear off out the yard as the security guards had zoomed in on their camera and caught swim smoking swims breakfast

Reputation Comments on this post:

Totally off-topic :(

[Chromo]

My lizard has had many experiences where he was too high to sleep. In fact, even if he's not that high it's hard or impossible. What would usually happen is he'd have shot up a couple hours prior to trying to sleep, and would have some saved for the morning. Well, that's all well and good until he's lying there awake thinking about the shot he has in the morning. Then he just couldn't sleep due to combination of being high and anticipation. He'd always end up doing the shot because he knew he wasn't going to sleep anyways. Sleeping pills would have helped a lot (of course not to be taken when high, he would have only done so if it'd been 2-3 hours after). Also, he would have fitful sleep where he'd wake up crying if he did fall asleep. Yeesh. In summary it's been a very common problem for my lizard.

[m.swinehart81]

Swim shoots and has never experienced this but he has many friends that complain about it. It seems that most of his friends that have this problem dont use on a regular basis. Swim has never heard this problem coming from someone that has been using regularly for any amount of time. How long has swidonmeka been smoking H?

[Junkhead23]

When pacman first started on heroin it always stopped him from sleeping when he had a lot. This wore off after time. It always amused him though because he always thought it was meant to put you to sleep!!

[Routemaster Flash]

The Latin name of the opium poppy - Papaver somniferum - means "sleep-bringing poppy".

Biggest. Lie. EVER.

[Donmeka]

SWIM has been using on and off and everyday a lot for a year and some change (3-4 months)

[debbydoesdamage]

SWIM rarely sleeps through the night when she is on opiates of any kind. She has been using steadily for 12 years or so and it was like this at the beginning and still remains a side effect. Vivid and sometimes scary dreams play a part in the wake/sleep pattern too. Of course it's aggravating when SWIM has responsibilities the next day that require her to be better rested, but she's pretty good at 'runnin on fumes' after all these years.

If SWIM has nowhere to be the next day, she enjoys the waking every hour or so, getting up for a minute only to realize how fucked up she still is. It gives her a chance to be awake to relish the high, makes her feel like she's getting more 'bang for her buck'. SWIM doesn't want to waste a good buzz sleeping through the entire thing!

[m.swinehart81]

Thats crazy that you swimmers still have that problem after all that time. Swim cannot even think about sleep unless he is high. If he isnt feelin a good H buzz he cant even think about sleep unless he is dead ass tired. Swim has to shoot up about every 8 hours or so to keep from getting sick so that may have something to do with it as well. He usually does a shot right before laying down to go to sleep and he can usually sleep for 10-12 hours but that is the longest he can go without doing a shot...
I suppose its a good thing that H doesnt keep swim from sleeping. He would be fucked.... lol

[bcubed]

Two things that occurred to my shadow:

1. Shadow's noticed that opies (all of them) tend to make sleep impossible in high dosages. Shadow knows a bit about sleep apnea (where the airway relaxes to the point where it "chokes" the sleeper while asleep) and wonders if opiates reduce muscle tone, and if this could explain some of the "too high to sleep" complaints.

2. As a slight hijack, Shadow's noticed that, when fatigued, a healthy dose of M makes him not feel his fatigue. Not so much a "alertness" drug like a stimulant, but it takes away the tiredness for a while.

Sorry that this post isn't heroin-exclusive (though he has noticed the effect on H), but he's always wondered about this effect.

[BrownStreakRailroad]

SWIM hates it when he cant sleep due to being too wrecked on gear!! it only happens to SWIM now if he has a break for a week or so using methadone, then when he gets some heroin, he is well more battered than usual and fidgets and tossing and turning etc....can also happen if SWIM smokes all day, really smoking too much. SWIM's friend who only uses when he comes into town, he scratches himself like a mofo and ends up with black shit all over his face from scratchin with lighter residue all over his hands!!

[m.swinehart81]

This is kind of off topic but BrownStreaks comment made me think of this.

There was a time that one of swims friends girlfriend was OD'ing in a hotel room and this friend called swim. Swim went over to the hotel room to help because his friend was wrecked on dope and really freaking out. When swim got there he came to the conclusion that it was bad enough that 911 needed to be called. Swim told his friend to get rid of all the dope and sort of clean up the hotel room. Swim saw him cleaning up and decided to attend to his friends girl. When the cops got there swims friend was talking to them and swim went over to them. When he got to where he could see his friends face he noticed that his friend had the biggest black streak going ALL THE WAY across his face! The cops knew what it was and searched the hotel room. It turns out that swims friend threw all the dope and fixins in the damn trash can!! The cops found it and actually didnt do anything about it. Swim was very suprised at this.
It was a pretty funny thing for swim to watch his friend try to talk to cops with slurry speach and a giant black streak running across his face... lol

Sorry about it being off topic but it popped into my head and I figured I would share the funny story

P.S.
Swims friends girlfriend made it through ok. She pulled out of the OD and was able to leave the hospital the next morning

[Mr.Safety]

SWIM never has trouble sleeping... (this is kinda dumb but swim started typing "swim never has trouble swimming" but thought he'd share his DUMB moment)
SWIM injects, has never smoked.

Has it something to do cause SWIY is smoking it? Weird

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by VladE

SWIM never has trouble sleeping... (this is kinda dumb but swim started typing "swim never has trouble swimming" but thought he'd share his DUMB moment)
SWIM injects, has never smoked.

Has it something to do cause SWIY is smoking it? Weird

Yeah SWIM neither. Never really heard of this problem before coming to the forum. SWIM injects too.

The only way it will interfere with SWIM's sleep is by keeping him stuck places. Like, VERY often, SWIM will be sitting here on the DF, alternately nodding off for an hour or so all night long. Sometimes waking up by banging his head on the keyboard. LOL. He wants to get to his bed after a while but just can't keep the thought long enough or coherent enough to do it.

Once he makes it to his bed though (which is usually at 5 - 7 am) - sleep is no problem at all. But even if he doesn't get sleep it's no problem either. SWIM has gone days, maybe even a week or so with no proper sleep, just the occassional 1 or 2 hour nod, and felt perfectly refreshed and functional the whole time. Maybe because the indescribably beautiful-dreamy state counts as sleep anyways.

[Donmeka]

trouble SWIMMING XD LOL

ya SWIM smokes .2-.4 through a day and it probly does have something to do with the ROA SWIM chooses. He just hates the chance of getting HIV because SWIM was so reckless when he was boosting and came out ok thank god. SWIM is happy just drankin smokin str8 westcoastin

if SWIM does not smoke 2hrs before he KOs he sleeps like an angel and wakes up loaded still and sometimes he can smoke and KO right after but it seems if the gear is RLY good he is nodding out like mad and itchy as crab infested pubes and cant sleep worth a damn, no amount of sleeping pills or masturbation will do the trick! (except xanax which SWIM is out of hisa script till next week tho )

[Junkhead23]

It was actually this effect that lead to pacman losing his job many a year ago or contributed anyway.

[deltakilo]

SWIM has noticed that as well when IV'ing dilly and oxy in large doses. Insomnia is actually listed as a side effect and SWIM has spent many a night half asleep and half awake, sort of in a state of purgatory, with shallow breathing and a warm, cozy buzz.

[InstantKarma]

Swim injects basically every day and doesn't really have TROUBLE sleeping, but when she gets high before bed she just has no desire to sleep. This, of course, doesn't mean she wont catch nods, but no actual sleep for hours and hours after using. Swims boyfriend experiences the same thing. Thus swim and her bf spend many lovely nights nodding on the bed next to each other )

[cra$h]

swim's never been able to sleep while on opiates, but has been so high that it seemed like he was a step beyond sleep, if that makes any sense. But this is for a couple reasons for swim, it's a waste of money, waste of high time, and is kinda scared of not waking up haha

[helene]

SWIM knows what you mean, when one first starts taking heroin it can stop you sleeping, but since SWIM has had a habit, she has become completely reliant on heroin in order to get to sleep. Even if she is not ill per se (i.e. on methadone) she finds it nigh on impossible to get to sleep unless she's just had a hit.

However, that gouchy type of heroin-induced sleep isn't what SWIM would call proper sleep. It's not that deep, she tends to wake up every hour or so, roll a fag, smoke it, and then nod off again. So it's hardly undisturbed sleep.

SWIM is aware that we sleep in cycles of roughly 3 hours: We drift to sleep into light non-REM stage 1 sleep, through non-REM stages 2 and 3 (which are also light sleep stages - no dreaming occurs) to stage 4 deep sleep, which is when the body does most of its physical healing, and gets its most rest. The cycle then reverses, back through non-REM stages 3, 2 and 1, and finally ends with stage 5 sleep, a period of REM sleep, when we dream, which is when the brain organises all the information it has received via the senses during the day, decides what needs to be filed where, what can go to the short term memory, what can go to the long term memory, and what can be discarded and forgotten.

So stages 4 and 5 are the most important for our physical and mental well-being. So anything that disturbs our sleep, causes us to wake every hour or so thus preventing us from completing the cycle, and getting our fill of stage 4 and 5 sleep, is going to be detrimental to our physical and psychological health in the long run.

SWIM has noticed that she dreams a lot less since she has had a habit. This would indicate she is having less stage 5 sleep. Seeing as most of our body's healing is done during stage 4 sleep, a lack of this could partly account for some of the run-down feelings we experience whilst in active addiction. Let alone all the damage done by sleep deprivation as a result of withdrawal.

So yeh, heroin isn't as fantastic for sleep as once thought.

H

[dyingtomorrow]

Originally Posted by helene

SWIM knows what you mean, when one first starts taking heroin it can stop you sleeping, but since SWIM has had a habit, she has become completely reliant on heroin in order to get to sleep. Even if she is not ill per se (i.e. on methadone) she finds it nigh on impossible to get to sleep unless she's just had a hit.

However, that gouchy type of heroin-induced sleep isn't what SWIM would call proper sleep. It's not that deep, she tends to wake up every hour or so, roll a fag, smoke it, and then nod off again. So it's hardly undisturbed sleep.

SWIM is aware that we sleep in cycles of roughly 3 hours: We drift to sleep into light non-REM stage 1 sleep, through non-REM stages 2 and 3 (which are also light sleep stages - no dreaming occurs) to stage 4 deep sleep, which is when the body does most of its physical healing, and gets its most rest. The cycle then reverses, back through non-REM stages 3, 2 and 1, and finally ends with stage 5 sleep, a period of REM sleep, when we dream, which is when the brain organises all the information it has received via the senses during the day, decides what needs to be filed where, what can go to the short term memory, what can go to the long term memory, and what can be discarded and forgotten.

So stages 4 and 5 are the most important for our physical and mental well-being. So anything that disturbs our sleep, causes us to wake every hour or so thus preventing us from completing the cycle, and getting our fill of stage 4 and 5 sleep, is going to be detrimental to our physical and psychological health in the long run.

SWIM has noticed that she dreams a lot less since she has had a habit. This would indicate she is having less stage 5 sleep. Seeing as most of our body's healing is done during stage 4 sleep, a lack of this could partly account for some of the run-down feelings we experience whilst in active addiction. Let alone all the damage done by sleep deprivation as a result of withdrawal.

So yeh, heroin isn't as fantastic for sleep as once thought.

H

Fascinating post - particularly the idea in the last paragraph.

[xXDaFoolXx]

I agree, doing heroin is confirmed to interrupt the REM stage of sleeping (Which is what is most important). You may be in REM for 3-4 hours and truly only receive an hour of it. When you body is interrupted by any electrical impulse or chemical change in the brain this happens.

Reputation Comments on this post:

False information. See helene's post below for explanation

[helene]

Originally Posted by xXDaFoolXx

I agree, doing heroin is confirmed to interrupt the REM stage of sleeping (Which is what is most important). You may be in REM for 3-4 hours and truly only receive an hour of it. When you body is interrupted by any electrical impulse or chemical change in the brain this happens.

This is incorrect. REM sleep in "normal" (i.e. non-heroin addict) adult humans typically accounts for 20–25% of their total sleep, so that's about about 90–120 minutes of a night's sleep, depending on how long you sleep for. To be in REM sleep for 3-4 hours each night, you'd have to have slept for at least 15 hours.

As previously said, REM sleeps occurs at the end of each cycle. So if you're woken up repeatedly for whatever reason before the cycle reaches the end, you're deprived of it entirely. I wasn't talking about electrical or chemical changes in the brain, just the sheer physical act of waking up every hour or so.

H