Smoking - Smoking Valerian Root

[Boca Bitch]

SWIM recently had the 'brilliant' idea to add some ground valerian root to a tobacco cigarette he was rolling. The high was incredible. Somewhat comparable to a large dose of alprazolam, but more euphoric and less sedating.
Then.. two hours later, SWIM's throat was on fire. I had forgotten to mention to SWIM that valerian root contains valeric acid, a fairly potent cytotoxin. So when he inhaled that valerian root smoke, he was forming a 'chemical burn', if you will, in his throat and lungs. This is day three... and while it is getting progressively better, his throat is still killing him.

Just a warning out there to other SWIMMERS, don't be so quick to throw something in a joint unless one is positive of its purity and relative safety.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Wow, thanks for sharing. Hopefully your suffering will prevent others from experiencing the same!
	Thank you for sharing!!! Sorry about SWIY's throat!!
	There will always be a place for the bold and foolish, thanks for the report.
	Great harm reduction post.

[shivakiva2112]

Very interesting indeed. I'm sorry to hear about their pain, but now that they have boldly gone where no head has gone before, the community may be able to figure out ways to get around the valeric acid.

Would they wager a guess as to how much root was smoked?

[Boca Bitch]

Approximately 480mgs.

[OhCasey]

This may sound dumb and its just off the top of my head but would a water pipe help in reducing the negative effects?

[Boca Bitch]

I'm not sure, but as much as I appreciate the advice, I will not let SWIM do this again.

[shivakiva2112]

Yeah, a bong would work at least in theory. Valeric acid is fairly water soluble by the looks of it, and bongs are designed to remove water soluble impurities in smoke, as well as cooling it. Doesn't sound like a good idea though.

[Boca Bitch]

Well... from what SWIM tells me, the high is so incredibly intense that it rivals diazepine IV. So if anyone knows how an extraction would/could be done, he would greatly appreciate it!!

[Euthanatos93420]

okay, i'm interested in what's going on here. is the 5-htp molecule changed by the burning? I believe this is the extract one is going for but regular supplements from the pharmacy won't do. THey most likely include valerian root added to the extracted 5-htp. You'll probably have to find a wholesaler of 5-htp.

Swim is interested in this and wouldn't mind being a guinea pig if he had a bong. =( Which he doesn't. Hmm....he does know someone who does!

Anyway, a test with pure (relatively) 5-htp should state the results as being the work of 5-htp. I can't imagine 5-htp alone being this active. Something must occur in the burning process to break it down into seratonin perhaps?

[OhCasey]

Originally Posted by Euthanatos93420

okay, i'm interested in what's going on here. is the 5-htp molecule changed by the burning? I believe this is the extract one is going for but regular supplements from the pharmacy won't do. THey most likely include valerian root added to the extracted 5-htp. You'll probably have to find a wholesaler of 5-htp.

Swim is interested in this and wouldn't mind being a guinea pig if he had a bong. =( Which he doesn't. Hmm....he does know someone who does!

Anyway, a test with pure (relatively) 5-htp should state the results as being the work of 5-htp. I can't imagine 5-htp alone being this active. Something must occur in the burning process to break it down into seratonin perhaps?

Does Valerian contain 5-HTP?

[shivakiva2112]

^No, it doesn't. It contains various alkaloids, volatile oils, flavonones, GABA, isovaleramide, and valeric acid.

[Potter]

What is it about this plant that "inspires" such insane experiments? Helikophis said he knows a fool who tried to pour Valerian tea in to their nose... Guess the above explains why they said it was an awful experience.

[shivakiva2112]

^They think it's because Valerian is actually pretty recreational for a more or less non recreational drug. It's weird, to be sure, but consuming large doses of potent Valerian Sleepytime tea in conjunction with lots of smoked or eaten pot has been known to produce intense visual and somatosensory hallucinations with a solid kick of euphoria to boot.

Valerian is unique in that it bears resemblance to the sedative hypnotics like zolpidem and to benzodiazepines a la diazepam, at least that is the experience of some people.

Helikophis may want to try it if they haven't, though something about the voice in your post suggests they have and have not been impressed.

Methinks that valerian may be a nice additive to a hoppy homebrew!

[SullyGuy]

SWIM wonders, would a simple wash of the root, or perhaps a acid/base + polar/nonpolar extraction work?

[OhCasey]

I wonder if it could have been additives to the valerian that caused the negative side effects. Ive read quite a few experience reports of people smoking valerian rootand none experienced the bad effects that the op did, though one did mention their throat burned a little during intake but no prolonged burning. Erowid has a couple about this very thing. Most also didnt find it that pleasureable with mild-medium effects as far as relaxation.

[Boca Bitch]

Originally Posted by Potter

What is it about this plant that "inspires" such insane experiments? Helikophis said he knows a fool who tried to pour Valerian tea in to their nose... Guess the above explains why they said it was an awful experience.

What was it that "inspired" chemists to isolate cocaine and then snort it?

Ya never know until you try, but hell something came out of this. If SWIM can find a simple enough way isolate the valeric acid, there is a new very potent legal psychoactive out on the market people.

[ex-junkie]

:rushes to health food shop: :P

[twoiko]

Hmm, my cat tells me in my dream:
"I am currently ordering a few smokable herbs online and testing different combinations, I would be very interested to see how this turns out, I wonder if the water solubility would be enough to just use a bong? Perhaps the root could be washed with water beforehand? Very interesting."

[Potter]

twoiko: Don't do it. You just read a post by someone who got severe chemical burns from smoking this, is it really worth doing it again? Do you have ANY IDEA how BAD internal burns are?

Valerian tea is perfectly safe and effective, do that. Just because you COULD do soemthing, doesn't mean it's a good idea. We don't need to explore every possibly route with every possible plant. This reminds me of people who put alcohol up their butts, something that kills people often enough (possibly everyone who does it, I can't imagine there's many people who try). Now why would you need to do this, when alcohol is perfectly wonderful to drink?

[twoiko]

Oh, I'm sorry if I made you think I was repeating a mistake. Again, more I left out that my cat told me last night XD:
"I'm talking about using an extract, or possibly a water bath to extract the acids causing this burning effect, would this not be sufficient? I'm actually waiting for someone to answer this question, while also looking up more information on the subject but I'm not exactly a chemist, only got high school chemistry... XD"

[shivakiva2112]

Valeric acid doesn't seem to be present in Valerian tea, oddly enough, the tea is perfectly drinkable as Potter says. It's strange that inhaling the smoke causes or can cause chemical burns in the lungs but drinking the tea is harmless.

And, with that in mind, it doesn't seem likely that pulling the smoke through water as in a bong would be beneficial at reducing the amount of valeric acid. Hell, we don't even know that valeric acid is responsible for the burning. It could be valeric acid or the volatile oils or the combustion products of those or any other constituent in the root. There very well may be chemical constituents of valerian root that have no pharmacological activity and are therefore practically unknown to 99% of the population which could be harmful to inhale in themselves or, more likely, form harmful combustion products.

[Mickeld]

SWIM has read on other websites that valeric acid in combination with the other alkaloids and volatile oils that creates the reaction it does. If one were to prevent the acid from entering the body, then, in theory, it would not have the same effect. Heres and idea. Perhaps vaporizing the plant material would help. SWIM knows, sounds dumb, but sometimes experimentation seems to be much more realistic then going by chemical formulas and pen and paper thinkking. Maybe heating the acids made them more volitile which is what cause them to be so dangerous! A piece of wood by itself, not dangerous unless someone smacks you in the head with it. Yet light it on fire and your looking for some real pain.

[PandorymDMT]

SWIM has smoked valerian root before and has found a few problem to this method of administration. First off unless SWIY knows where to acquire a live plant, SWIY will be stuck using vitamin store pills that have to be emptied out of their capsule. SWIM remembers this powder being very hard to burn evenly and thus very hard to get a decent hit, plus when SWIY does get the material ablazing, it is a very hot and harsh smoke that is difficult to properly inhale. (although SWIY could possibly use a water bong to cool it down, SWIM finds that this method negates any possible effects that could be gained from smoking, as the active material seems to be filtered out by the water) As for the actual experience, SWIM remembers that it was just like taking the capsules regularly, but with a much quicker onset and return to baseline. SWIM hotboxed his room however and this might of increased the effects of smoking as he was constantly recycling the air through his lungs. Overall SWIM finds that their are much better substances to smoke for a high, or for sleep/dream benefits. A combination of Hops, Skullcap, and Valerian Root however produces a nice sleepy feeling that more often than not leads to either very vivid and/or lucid dreams.

[Boca Bitch]

^ That's exactly what SWIM smoked, the ground herb out of a capsule. But he had no problems with burning the matter evenly, as he mixed it with tobacco.