Addiction - GBL withdrawals and anti-psychotics/SSRIs

[AquaDementia]

Hi there

SWIM was proscribed Prozac for a while and found that it completely removed the comedown/withdrawal aspects of GBL. However, SWIM was taken off it when it was decided it had induced a slight manic episode.

SWIM was then proscribed citalopram, but decided to stop taking it pending a review by a psychiatric doctor rather than just a GP, having researched it and found it to be just as likely to induce a manic episode. SWIM never took it for long enough to experience it's affects in combination with GBL.

SWIM is currently needing to undergo a quitting session with regards to GBL, but has previously found withdrawals to be horrific - days of hallucinations, shaking, vomiting, diarreah, disassociation and depersonalisation. Even comedowns from GBL after one dose are terrible, resulting in crying and delusions, and SWIM is now looking at a far more serious withdrawal after months and months of round-the-clock dosing (as much as 30mls a day, never sleeping for more than 3hrs without a 2ml dose). SWIM knows that this is a stupid situation to have gotten into, but SWIM is only just now beginning to feel like they are in a position emotionally and mentally to get clean from this substance, and to have motivation to do so.

However, SWIM has also recently begun taking Risperidone (an anti-psychotic), and wonders whether this will affect the withdrawal. SWIM also still has some citalopram (SSRI) left and is wondering whether it is worth using this during the withdrawal if it will produce the same effect as the prozac did - SWIM wonders whether it would be worth doing that for a week before stopping dosing.

SWIM has read a lot of info and searched the forums prior to registering and knows the basics of medicating through withdrawal but SWIM does not have the resources or contacts to get any illegal medication, so SWIM will not be able to follow all of this advice, besides that advice routed in legal substances and practices.

SWIM begins to get noticeable withdrawal symptoms after 2 hours, beginning with profuse sweating and progressing to burning prickles all over the body. This get's progressively worse, but SWIM has not let it go past sweating and prickling in some time. The most annoying part is that SWIM has no real psychological dependence on the drug given recent changes in SWIM's life that have made them really, genuinely, not want to be addicted any more. It's just physical and psychological withdrawal that is keeping SWIM taking. SWIM has tried tapering but finds that the withdrawal process is merely drawn out over a longer time, and the dosing scheme is too demanding - SWIM would like to tackle it head-on.

So, my query is, how will psychological drugs affect SWIMs withdrawal process, and why is SWIM so severly affected by the withdrawal/comedown process? Could it be related to the fact that SWIM presents psychotic symptoms anyway? SWIM also has drug-addicted parents, and was exposed to speed while in the womb.

[malsat]

Wow... can you tell me more about the prozac use - was G being used before the prozac was started or after, doses used, etc. I'd like all the information you can give me! Would I be wrong in assuming that the prozac helped with the withdrawals pretty soon after SWIY started taking it (ie within a few days)?

I'm sorry to say but after that length of time, I'd *seriously* consider going to a hospital to detox - especially considering that SWIY is suffering from latent psychosis anyway. I imagine risperidone would help somewhat but really I don't know, sorry.

Here's a handy reference document you can print out and show to your doctor:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_addiction2.pdf

Best of luck - keep us informed on your progress.

[AquaDementia]

Originally Posted by malsat

Wow... can you tell me more about the prozac use - was G being used before the prozac was started or after, doses used, etc. I'd like all the information you can give me! Would I be wrong in assuming that the prozac helped with the withdrawals pretty soon after SWIY started taking it (ie within a few days)?

I'm sorry to say but after that length of time, I'd *seriously* consider going to a hospital to detox - especially considering that SWIY is suffering from latent psychosis anyway. I imagine risperidone would help somewhat but really I don't know, sorry.

Best of luck - keep us informed on your progress.

Thank you for your reply Malsat

SWIMs basic problem with going to the doctors is that SWIM is recieving NHS help for mental health problems, and has been told that if I they admit to using drugs they would have to be refferred back to a Drug and Alcohol Team and their treatment would be suspended in the mean time. However, I do agree that some kind of medical detox would be supreme, and that article could prove extremely usful. Many thanks!

SWIM was taking Prozac for about a month prior to starting to dose GBL again, and was dosing round-the-clock on Prozac for 2/3 months. There was zero withdrawal associated when SWIM stopped, which SWIM found rather remarkable. SWIM was on 20mg/day and then 40mg/day for the final month. SWIM was again using around 30ml/day GBL (99.99% purity) in 3ml doses, dosing equally throughout the day except at night, where they used once every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, at around 2.5ml doses.

Thanks again for any help you can give!

AquaDementia added 2 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by AquaDementia

SWIM was taking Prozac for about a month prior to starting to dose GBL again, and was dosing round-the-clock on Prozac for 2/3 months.

I meant to say 'dosing GBL 'round the clock.

I can't find the 'edit' button though - can anyone help?

AquaDementia added 27 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by AquaDementia

Thank you for your reply Malsat

SWIMs basic problem with going to the doctors is that SWIM is recieving NHS help for mental health problems, and has been told that if I they admit to using drugs they would have to be refferred back to a Drug and Alcohol Team and their treatment would be suspended in the mean time. However, I do agree that some kind of medical detox would be supreme, and that article could prove extremely usful. Many thanks!

SWIM was taking Prozac for about a month prior to starting to dose GBL again, and was dosing round-the-clock on GBL for 2/3 months. There was zero withdrawal associated when SWIM stopped, which SWIM found rather remarkable. SWIM was on 20mg/day and then 40mg/day for the final month. SWIM was again using around 30ml/day GBL (99.99% purity) in 3ml doses, dosing equally throughout the day except at night, where they used once every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, at around 2.5ml doses.

Thanks again for any help you can give!

AquaDementia added 2 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...



I meant to say 'dosing GBL 'round the clock.

I can't find the 'edit' button though - can anyone help?

I have also found a quote on here that GBL withdrawal can cause symptoms of carpel tunnel syndrome, which I had surgery for as a child - is it actually carpel tunnel, I wonder, or is it simply a similar symptomology (and is that a word?)

[malsat]

Essentially there are neurological symptoms that can develop in WD that are similar to those that may be experienced in CTS, but with different causes.

So just to clarify, SWIY was taking prozac for a month, at which point they began taking GBL. This G use lasted for a few months - during which time SWIY noticed that they weren't experiencing WD's if they neglected to take G every 2-3 hours? Or do I have that wrong?

Well, I hear what you've said but it may be a good idea to consider the pro's and con's of admitting that you're dependant on GBL to a healthcare provider - you may lose your current treatment for any mental health issues temporarily, but is that worth losing your life? Not to be a scaremonger - I mean, it's rare enough that this does happen - but after several months of heavy GBL use, people have come close to dying.

I've seen people be fine after that amount of time but I've also seen them be close to death so it's best to play it safe,, know what I mean? I'd say the same for any GABA agonist!

[AquaDementia]

Sorry for the lateness in my reply, I've had a busy evening/day/night/morning combo!

SWIM continued to take their daily dose of Prozac (20 then 40/mg) and had no comedowns early on in that period of light GBL use and then no significant withdrawal when their use because very heavy again. SWIM still got a high off the GBL - moreso, in fact, particularly with regards to the effects helping to combat their social phobia (well, more anti-socialness) - and there were stiill tingles and sweating in the first few hours following cessation of heavy (up to 30ml a day) use, but then nothing after that - no withdrawal followed. This was peculiar because SWIM had undergone a seriously traumatic withdrawal from GBL before.

SWIM has been considering your advice carefully, knowing that it would be sensible and proper to take it on board but also aware that they currently have on their medical record that they have been clean of all but marijuana since January and does not want to mess that up, since SWIM also has career plans that require her to have on her record that she has put drugs behind her. So, SWIM has been thinking carefully and thinks she has found a way to take your advice on board without messing up her record unneccessarily. I am going to research further online, since although I feel I have certainly exhaused Google and the main drugs forums for information, I cannot help but feel I have not utilised by student access to journals enough, and that there must be some more information I can squeeze out of them for SWIM. Then, I figure, SWIM can cease using in the late afternoon on a weekday, and if withdrawals are unbearable SWIM can go to the open surgery at their doctors the next morning. If SWIMs symptoms become unbearable in the day or night following evening surgery, SWIM can take a dose and go to the doctors the next morning and explain the situation. This way I can gauge whether or not I will be able to handle it and still get help promptly if I can't. I'm not worried about keeping it in the house - like I say, I really don't even want to be on the stuff psychologically, and I'm perfectly confident that I can reserve it during the withdrawal for only that one possible occasion of need, and then keep it afterwards for use a couple times a month recreationally.

I am curious, however, about the best time to quit. SWIM may come accross the opportunity in the next couple of weeks to get hold of some Benzo's and other drugs associated with a more healthy, less stressful withdrawal. SWIM is also aware that they have messed up their diet and exercise horrifically and that maybe taking a week to get nutritionally fit and in slightly better physical health would be ideal. SWIM also remembers that marijuana helped significantly during previous withdrawals and that SWIM will have money for marijuana in a few weeks, but does not presently. Although SWIM is experiencing significant difficulties with current GBL use, such as nodding off, vomiting, poor sleeping patterns, sore tongue and lips, receding gums and terrible mood swngs, SWIM nonetheless wonders whether it would be worth putting quitting off for a little bit to make sure that SWIM is in the best possible position to do so, while ensuring that SWIMs doses do not increase (but rather, ideally, decrease slightly in frequency or quantity).

[malsat]

Well I sure hope SWIY can figure out the best course of action and that it works out for them! Best of luck in getting clean!

[MrG]

As an alternative to Benzo's it has been observed by some, who have posted of their monkey's withdrawal following chronic GBL dosing that, and this is to say that it should *not* be done *whilst* using GBL, a few beers to give one a light buzz have appeared to ameliorate the anxiety and tremors.

It is always interesting to hear about users who, whilst chronic GBL dosing is a definite no-no, can propose novel ways of easing the withdrawal process.

[AquaDementia]

SWIM stopped dosing GBL at midday on Tuesday, after waking up from a G-induced sleep. After around 40 minutes the withdrawals were awful and SWIM considered dosing and going to the doctors instead. However, SWIM decided to wait it out as long as SWIM could stand it and they lessened slightly, leaving only physical symptoms of shaking, prickly sensations on the skin and a 'shivers up the spine' feeling, but not restricted to the spine. Also, extreme sweating, oily skin, hot flushes and cold flushes. Bearable. However, it was also physically noticeable - SWIM was told that they looked different, something undescribably in the way their eyes sat in their head. Not a 'nobodies home' look, more deep-set in their sockets, and smaller.

SWIM managed to get about 2hours sleep last night, and awoke feeling awful - all the emotional crap you encounter with a classic comedown. Now SWIM finds that the majority of the physical symptoms have begun to fade (although they feel a bit sick, and are still constipated and slightly clammy, particularly around the feet and hands, and still feel prickling sensations all over their body [especially around the chest and neck]).

However, even now the physical symptoms are seeming a bit better, my mental state is far worse - SWIM just feels sad, and scared. And SWIM is unbelievably bored - not that there's not stuff to be getting on with, there's just nothing SWIM wants to do. Everything looks vaguely out of place and there is a lingering feeling that certain objects are out of proportion - a mans head is unusually small for his body, the keys of the keyboard almost cruelly angular and regular. Everything is just bland, proscribed. SWIM finds their mind playing games with them - if this is what being sober is like (and its been so long since SWIM has been, it might just be that it is and they've forgotten) then what's so bad about GBL? SWIM can honestly say that this is a much more difficult aspect than the physical withdrawals and that they have been suprised by how much this has affected them. While on GBL, SWIM, naturally, completely forgot that everything they saw was seen "+GBL", as was everything they did, thought, ate etc. SWIM fears that this could be the fatal flaw that leads them to eventually re-order and consume GBL - reality is simply unbearable.

SWIM has thus far managed to resist ordering or dosing GBL since that point 3 days ago and knows that they need to start working on the underlying issues quickly if they wish to remain free of GBL but doesn't really know where to start, espcially in a mind-space so muddled as for it to appear so simple as 'one reality is beautiful, colourful, carnival and carefree the other ridig and bland, proscribed and crushing'.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Detailed and insightful descprition of GBL WD in this thread

[malsat]

Things will return to a bearable level of normality again but it will take time. It'll happen quicker than you'd think though - provided SWIY doesn't try to find justification for re-ordering. Psychological dependence is a much, much more horrific beast than standard physical dependence. Every time an addict relapses they get further and further from that point of comfortable reality again.

Google "dealing with cravings" or "dealing with addiction" for some good info on techniques to overcome cravings. Try and find alternative coping mechanisms for each problem that arises as a result of psychological dependence. There's always an alternative coping mechanism so there's never really any proper justification to use again.

This one might sound ridiculous but I always thought it might help to figure out in what way the drug improved your life and then try to emulate that experience without the drug. *shrug*

[AquaDementia]

SWIM slipped earlier and took 2ml GBL. SWIM is understandably annoyed at themselves but was finding psychological withdrawal unbearable. Is this going to mean the entire thing is gonna have to start over?

AquaDementia added 62 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

It should be noted that SWIM has not dosed again since, and that dose must surely have worn off by now, and that SWIM does not intend to dose in the interim.

AquaDementia added 989 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

I have good news! SWIM came down from that dose and had no return to withdrawals (except crying for about an hour about the fact that they'd given up and used) and slept through the night for the first time since they started using heavily and then quitting. SWIM is feeling genuinely perky, and totally in touch with reality. SWIM was worried that they would have messed it up and would have to repeat the last 3 days, but actually, the final 2ml seems to have provided the perfect 'soft landing'

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting. Thanks for the followup info