Is valium a good way to battle heroin withdrawals?

[billy1nk]

Swim is trying to break his addiction to heroin. He is getting to the point where he is shooting 4-6 times a day and it's becoming un-affordable. Swim wants to break his addiction but the withdrawals are horrible. What is the best way to break a heroin addiction without suffering through the worst parts of withdrawals? Swim heard benzos like valium, xanax, and klonopin are good to take and can minimize the effects. Swim went 3 days without shooting up heroin a few weeks ago. Swim bought a bag from a dealer that he didn't normally go to and they told him it was heroin. Once swim got home he quickly figured out it was not heroin. He is still not sure what the bag contained but he kept shooting it anyway because he didn't have withdrawals while doing it. After 3 days swim ran out of the random bag of drug and got real heroin again and felt like he hadn't done heroin in 3 days. Swim wonders if this drug was just crushed up benzo's or something.

Swim met someone yesterday that offered to sell him valium. Should swim buy this valium, will it help him break his heroin addiction? Also is it alright to shoot up valium? Swim also heard that valium can cause seizures and when mixed with heroin can cause death. Is this true? Is swim risking seizures and death by trying the valium?

[BrownStreakRailroad]

valium or any other downers can be effective at relieving the boredom and also help to sleep during withdrawals but they will not help with the symptoms at all.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good, correct information about effects
	Clear and concise response.

[east_of_eden]

swim tried taking valium when she kicked one time but they were useless, didn't help at all.

one time when swim was in an actual detox hospital, they gave her a combination of about half a dozen pills a few times a day, those days are very groggy in her memory but she knows they contained clonidine and probably other sleep meds/muscle relaxers, not exactly sure, but that withdrawal was an easy one.

also, if swiy uses benzos to come off heroin, please be careful not to get addicted to the benzos, they are just as difficult to get off of as heroin.

[BrownStreakRailroad]

lofexidine and anti histamines are useful and they give these out in detox, they help to calm blood pressure and chill SWIY a bit and combined with some zopiclone, SWIY would have a few hours sleep.

[Jit]

Swim doesn't seem to be as deep into addiction as swiy, bet when swim needs to take a break to keep tolerance/addiction down he uses a combo of cyclobenzaprine(a muscel relaxint), methocarbamol(muscel relaxent), clonidine(swim believes it's a hypertension drug) and doxepin(an antidepressiont with anti anxioty properties, if swims not mistaken). It works very very well from swim...If you can get them, it's an idea.

[johnnyyen]

Originally Posted by BrownStreakRailroad

valium or any other downers can be effective at relieving the boredom and also help to sleep during withdrawals but they will not help with the symptoms at all.

SWIM remembers a long weekend in the cells(not down to drug using reasons)
when the dust settled SWIM knew his rattle was on the way,so asking to see the doctor he eventually was given a 5 minute lesson in world class patronization,however the good news was that SWIM was scribed a 10ml valium every 4 hrs together with a df118..the combination of which held SWIM until his Monday lunchtime release....come to think of it SWIM quite enjoyed his weekend break.. room service sucked,the neighbours were noisy,but the rattle was stopped in its tracks..and at the time that is ALL that mattered.

[helene]

Swim has taken valium (diazepam) a few times, in an attempt to ease the pain of acute heroin withdrawal. Swim has to say that without exception, it has never worked to make her feel the slightest bit better. The only effect it had was to make her feel even more odd, adding a slightly surreal edge to the normal withdrawal hell.

One very important thing to keep in mind is this: Whilst in extreme withdrawal, you will not feel the effects of valium. So you may decide to take more (if a large supply is available), in an attempt to ease your suffering. As Dickon stated in his above post, dangerously high doses of valium are required to even have the slightest of effects during heroin withdrawal. Whilst it is unlikely (but not impossible) that you will OD on a moderately high, orally consumed dose of valium whilst you're rattling, the real danger occurs when you finally manage to get some heroin. After you've used, and are no longer in withdrawal, all that hitherto unnoticed valium in your system will hit you like a ton of bricks, and that, combined with the opiates, creates a very high risk of overdose. And if you're one who uses alcohol to get you through withdrawal, and you add that into the mix, you're increasing your chances of OD-ing exponentially. Remember: benzos, opiates and booze are deadly in combination.

So using valium as a "stop-gap" measure, in an attempt to ease the pain of withdrawal until you're next able to score your opiate DOC, is about as risky as you can get. Obviously the situation is slightly different for those who have stopped using heroin, and are using valium to help them through their cluck. Still, unless you're 100% sure that you're not going to change your mind and go out and score, swim would say that for all the good it does (pretty much fuck all...), compared to the potential harm it can cause, you may as well just leave the valium well alone.

Originally Posted by johnnyyen

SWIM remembers a long weekend in the cells...SWIM was scribed a 10ml valium every 4 hrs together with a df118

Just a quick note on this subject: In the UK, if you're arrested and kept in police custody, and you start withdrawing (and do not have a script on the outside) these days, the best you can possibly hope for, in terms of prescribed meds, is the odd yellow valium. (Incidentally, not sure about the DF's now, it seems rather unlikely that they would prescribe DF's with valium any more. Swim would have to check up on this.)

But that yellow 5mg valium comes at a price. The doc may not tell you this at the time, but in taking that valium, you are effectively increasing your time in custody rather significantly. If you have not been interviewed yet, the police will have to wait at least 6 hours after you take that valium before they can interview you. This is because the police are not allowed to interview anyone they suspect to be under the influence of drugs, and so they need to wait long enough to be sure any effects of the valium have worn off. Again, as said above, when you think about how little an effect valium actually has to ease heroin withdrawal, swim thinks you're rather better off just sticking it out, getting interviewed as soon as you can, and getting let out on your merry way as quickly as possibly.

H

[johnnyyen]

Originally Posted by helene

Swim has taken valium (diazepam) a few times, in an attempt to ease the pain of acute heroin withdrawal. Swim has to say that without exception, it has never worked to make her feel the slightest bit better. The only effect it had was to make her feel even more odd, adding a slightly surreal edge to the normal withdrawal hell.

One very important thing to keep in mind is this: Whilst in extreme withdrawal, you will not feel the effects of valium. So you may decide to take more (if a large supply is available), in an attempt to ease your suffering. As Dickon stated in his above post, dangerously high doses of valium are required to even have the slightest of effects during heroin withdrawal. Whilst it is unlikely (but not impossible) that you will OD on a moderately high, orally consumed dose of valium whilst you're rattling, the real danger occurs when you finally manage to get some heroin. After you've used, and are no longer in withdrawal, all that hitherto unnoticed valium in your system will hit you like a ton of bricks, and that, combined with the opiates, creates a very high risk of overdose. And if you're one who uses alcohol to get you through withdrawal, and you add that into the mix, you're increasing your chances of OD-ing exponentially. Remember: benzos, opiates and booze are deadly in combination.

So using valium as a "stop-gap" measure, in an attempt to ease the pain of withdrawal until you're next able to score your opiate DOC, is about as risky as you can get. Obviously the situation is slightly different for those who have stopped using heroin, and are using valium to help them through their cluck. Still, unless you're 100% sure that you're not going to change your mind and go out and score, swim would say that for all the good it does (pretty much fuck all...), compared to the potential harm it can cause, you may as well just leave the valium well alone.


Just a quick note on this subject: In the UK, if you're arrested and kept in police custody, and you start withdrawing (and do not have a script on the outside) these days, the best you can possibly hope for, in terms of prescribed meds, is the odd yellow valium. (Incidentally, not sure about the DF's now, it seems rather unlikely that they would prescribe DF's with valium any more. Swim would have to check up on this.)

But that yellow 5mg valium comes at a price. The doc may not tell you this at the time, but in taking that valium, you are effectively increasing your time in custody rather significantly. If you have not been interviewed yet, the police will have to wait at least 6 hours after you take that valium before they can interview you. This is because the police are not allowed to interview anyone they suspect to be under the influence of drugs, and so they need to wait long enough to be sure any effects of the valium have worn off. Again, as said above, when you think about how little an effect valium actually has to ease heroin withdrawal, swim thinks you're rather better off just sticking it out, getting interviewed as soon as you can, and getting let out on your merry way as quickly as possibly.

H

Hi well the time SWIM was recalling was around four years ago,he notes the points on interview protocols,and in retrospect believes it was after his interview that he was allowed to see the doctor (he was told that he would be a guest until he could go up before a beak on Monday..)..SWIM is not sure on what is permitted to be scribed of late..he does know that he told the doctor his habit
was far worse than it was at the time to try to crow bar some kind of chemical assistance out of him..and finally in retrospect SWIM believes it was the The df's that saw him through the weekend rather than the vallies..

[msmogadon]

Originally Posted by billy1nk

Swim met someone yesterday that offered to sell him valium. Should swim buy this valium, will it help him break his heroin addiction? Also is it alright to shoot up valium? Swim also heard that valium can cause seizures and when mixed with heroin can cause death. Is this true? Is swim risking seizures and death by trying the valium?

It can help SWIY substitute one addiction for another. Unless SWIY feels like they can contend with going with nothing at all when the benzos run out.
SWIM would not shoot up valium. Why would SWIY want to do that? That's very addict behaviour. Isn't SWIY trying to break away from all that?
SWIM was told by her CPN (Community Psychiatric Nurse) at the Substance Misuse Services that diazepam (Valium) can will only produce seizures at doses of above 40mgs a day over at least 2 months.
SWIM had a seizure once and thought it was because of diazepam but she had not used any in about 2 weeks and was double and triple dosing on Mirtazipine cause that's the daft kind of things she used to do. So that may be more likely a reason who knows? not SWIM.
Also if taking benzos with heroin it can cause respiratory depression, which is an overdose, which is death. Then saying that SWIM has mixed the 2 before and is still alive. But then SWIM did say she was daft earlier so don't listen to her.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent advice about benzos

[ex-junkie]

fact of the matter is, that opiate addicts turn to benzos like valium, then continue using opiates. this is dangerous because it increases chances of overdosing, and valium is another league of addiction. its dangerous for valium addicts to stop abruptly, because they can seizure.

be very careful if swiy chooses to take valium. in swims experience, it took massive doses to take any sort of effect, and they did not make her feel better. theyre only good for a few hours sleep and minimal comfort, and didnt do a great deal to take withdrawals away. in fact, in the process of having a light valium buzz, it only made her crave the bigger opiate buzz, and they never helped her to stop using.

buprenorphine, clonidine and promethazine combination were the best withdrawal aids she ever tried. that combination she rates as the most comfortable withdrawal experience shes ever had, which included sleep everyday of her detox.

swiy should look into it. the body literally tapers itself off buprenorphine, if you take small doses when needed as opposed to daily single doses (because in a single daily dose, you dont know how much youre going to need on that day before you take it basically). when you take small doses when needed, you find you need to dose less and less, until youre dosing virtually nothing, then stop.

clonidine and promethazine are not addictive.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good harm prevention advice

[BrownStreakRailroad]

as msmogadon said, will SWIY be happy when the pills run out?? it is very easy to switch SWIY'r addiction, like a guy SWIM grew up with...he was a hardcore IV Heroin addict for 8 years and he stopped using H and maintained on methadone, he used vailium and diazepam or temazepam to combat his mental boredom or cravings...he is now heavily addicted to the pills and as tolerance goes up it becomes a very dangerous game....when i see him now, his face is puffed up and red, he has perma sweat on his forehead and makes no sense when he talks to you....he appears mentally fucked!!! infact SWIM would say he was better off being on Heroin than these benzodiazepines....as SWIM said in earlier post, they can help a little just for the duration of withdrawals to help sleep or kill boredom but SWIY really wouldnt want to use them more than 3 or 4 times in a 10 day withdrawal and thats it....leave them behind with SWIY'r Heroin addiction.

[ex-junkie]

^good point. swim knows people who were literally brain fucked from benzos. its not a good look.

[Methadrone]

Swim thinks valium is good for helping with the boredom but, swiy will still get withdrawls unless swiy has another opiate to take with the valium but, that is defeating the object of getting off the H.

[Benniboi]

Valium can help to combat some of the acute effects of opiate withdrawal but is by no means a wonder cure that alleviates all of the symptoms. Swim grudgingly recollects one instance during a withdrawal that he had taken 8ml of subutex and was feeling very, very rough. Still, he decided he was desperate to get a few hours of sleep and ergo, decided to take some valium to help this happen. Swim ended up taking 80ml of valium, (with a low tolerence to benzos anyway at the time) Needless to say it didn't send him to sleep, rather he continued to rattle but felt as if he was losing motor coordination and kept falling out of bed- a similar feeling to being completely drunk but without the sleepiness. It was a surreal and strange feeling and not really pleasant, and swim enjoys a few valium with a few beers at the best of times- but this helped to reinforce the theory that when you are in withdrawal, there is not a great deal you can do sometimes to ease the pain without going back to opiates. you just have to try and tough it out

[sleepwalker]

someone tried it and when the scooby-snacks ran out did H again.
Didn't stop the benzo's,duh...
Then swim got very tired, carrying 2 monkeys on his back!
swim got allergic to monkeys and kicked them out.
Does a recreational diazepam now and then but, boy, do those tolerance levels never go down? does a 50 mg on day one and day 3 does a 150mg and doesn't feel anything.So thats no big fun anymore. But thats a good thing.
Keeps the monkeys away...

[zulu1690]

swim believes nothing is going to take the withdrawels away that much at all.no point in substituting one for another.swim has been unconcious in hospital but was told by family and nurses that swim still went through the withdrawels.trouble with heroin is that it is like top of the range in building up tolerance and taking huge doses of anything that may make a slight difference is not worth the risk

[vox]

Swim is on day 27 of detoxing from a 3yr ~150mg/day oxycodone habit, with some hydromorphone, oxymorphone, and heroin thrown in the mix whenever he could get his hands on it. Swim didnt take any valium during his w/d but he took xanax which, like other people have already said, just took away from the boredom and didnt help much with the physical symptoms.

However, during the peak of swim's w/d (about days 2-4) he was lucky enough to be able to ELIMINATE his w/d for an hour or so. This was done with the help of some ketamine. Not only did it take away swim's aches and pains, but also allowed him to fall asleep and took away the dreaded restless feeling. It was the only time swim felt normal during his first 10 days of w/d. That ketamine was swims miracle drug for his detox.

[Dickon]

vox,

That's an interesting story, and would merit a thread. There definitely was one limited study showing Ketamine might have some kind of anti-addictive effect.

As for diazepam (valium), it might have some limited use in withdrawal, but my cat's experience is somewhat like Benniboi's. It will only help with sleep in very mild withdrawal. Doses of 50mg,80mg and even 150mg diazepam are very high doses (as I remember the usual recommended maximum daily dose is 40mg daily in divided doses. I just remember cat staggering around, feeling like shit, completely zombified.

The one thing I think it might be quite useful for in smaller doses is withdrawal anxiety. That said, benzodiazepines (the drug class to which diazepam/Valium belongs) have marginal utility in a withdrawal, and as people have mentioned above, can lead to a serious addiction which can be for some harder to relinquish than opiates and potentially dangerous and even fatal.

One final caveat: DO NOT inject diazepam. The injectable preparations of this stuff all contain a pretty odd vehicle for the diazepam: it is practically insoluble in water. So, unless you have access to diazepam ampoules, don't inject. It probably won't even work, and might be damaging.

Better detox drugs are clonidine or lofexidine. If you look at the "how to guide" sticky at the top of the main page of this subforum there is more information on these and other things that might help.

All the best

Dickon