Mind States 2005!

[gn2osis]

I thought it would be fun for those of us who went to Mind States to
compare notes and generally reminisce about a wonderful gathering of
some brilliant and fascinating people.



Due to other obligations, I was unable to attend the entire conference,
but naturally I did make sure to attend the Q+A with the Shulgins
(which was a last minute addition due to the unfortunate last-minute
cancellation of Paul Bach-y-Rita due to health problems). It was
very rewarding, and I wish I had access to a transcript of it, because
so much of what both Sasha and Ann have to share is truly valuabel and
inspiring.



After a brief introduction, the first questioner jumped right in with a pharmacology
question: "If indeed destruction by MAO enzymes is what causes
compounds like 2C-H to be inactive, then how can we explain the
activity of the other 2C compounds, since the 4-position is so remote
from the amino group and therefore highly unlikely to interfere
sterically with MAO's?" Sasha's reply was something to the effect
that first we need to find out what the active species is, and that it
may well be a metabolite. That same questioner followed up with a
more general question as to why the effects of structurally similar
psychedelics can be so different, e.g., 2C-B vs. 2C-I. Do humans
have a large variety of sub-sub-types of receptors, which when
tweaked together synergize to produce a subjective "symphony" of effects unique
to each? Again, Sasha pointed out our ignorance of exactly what
the active species are in vivo. It was either here or in response to
another question that he recounted the tale of making radioactive DOB
and following the course of the hot Br atom throughout the body.
That story is available online in one of his "Ask Dr Shulgin" columns
(link).



A number of questions followed, pretty much covering the territory of
design and synthesis of possible new psychedelics, as well as
some of
the medical and social implications of the use of known psychedelics
and entactogens. Would 2C-I show up on a standard urine test for
drugs? Probably not. A couple of questions and comments
were made
about the possibility that long-term use of MDMA affects memory.
Both Sasha and Ann opined that MDMA probably did not have an adverse
effect on memory, and that things like word-finding difficulty get
worse with .... with .... oh, what is it when time goes on and you
don't get any younger? Oh yeah, "age", that's right.



I was especially amused by some of the questions about drug design,
some more educated than others, some all but liberally sprinked with
exclamations like "dude!", and some simultaneously "stoned"-sounding and
well-informed. Sasha didn't bat an eye, and just offered his
thoughts on chemistry and pharmacology, freely scattering pearls before any
and all who might be able to use them. Not only is he a pioneer,
he is also a fierce civil libertarian and something of a fearless
anarchist, clearly inspiring the next generation to press forward with
this work, whose urgency he so well recounts in the "Why I Do What I
Do" chapter of TIHKAL. And he shows no signs of flagging himself in this quest.



A couple of tidbits stick out. Sasha was asked a question about
the "Fly" compounds, wherein 2C-type compounds are modified by using an
ethylene group to bridge the oxygens at the 2 and 5 positions back to
the 3 and 6 positions respectively. (Short on time now; someone
can add a link later.) Sasha clarified that the dihydrofuran
compounds were called the "Fly" compounds and the fully aromatic furan
compounds were referred to as "Dragonfly's". The Dragonflies are
extremely potent, active at the sub-milligram level, while 2C-B-Fly is
active around 10 mg. At this point Ann chimed in that the effects
of 2C-B fly were "heavenly".



The other thing that was really fascinating was Sasha's ongoing
research with isoquinolines, compounds that occur in cacti as a result
of biosynthetic cyclization reactions of phenethylamines. What
Sasha has found, so far, is that the isoquinolines are not
themselves active as psychedelics, but rather act as MAOI's, thereby potentiating
other phenethylamines (such as 2C-H? -- can't recall exactly) in
the cacti! A very interesting finding, and Sasha has coined the
term "cactohuasca" to refer to such synergy. And pursuit of this work actively continues, he concluded.



That's all I have time to post now, and also pretty much covers all I
can remember from the presentation. I hope others can fill in on
this and other talks. What a scintillating gathering of people,
together enjoying the insights of some genuine luminaries of our time!

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Edited by: gn2osis

[radiometer]

I thought she said "divine!" Damn, there goes my memory from so much
MDMA use!

I was there on Friday and will post more later.

[nanobrain]

thank you for the fascinating update. lokking forward to your feedback too, radiometer.

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by radiometer

I thought she said "divine!" Damn, there goes my memory from so much

MDMA use!

Actually, you're probably right. And I don't even have much of an
Ex-cuse of that nature! Nature's just not fair. I mean, if
my memory's gonna go, I wanna enjoy the ride down.

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Edited by: gn2osis

[Dexy Mcfukfuk]

what is this mind states conferance? And where is it? Is it just a
bunch of trippers going together and talking about drugs or are
there any insightful parts to it? I imageint aht if the Shulgins were
there it must have been somewhat serious. I will have to look into
this for next year.

[nanobrain]

MindstatesEdited by: nanobrain

[radiometer]

D McF has inspired me to start a new conference, where it's just a bunch
of trippers hanging out.

I'm still being too lazy to do a writup. Mine will balance gn2osis' report
nicely I hope, from a different perspective, as I was working at the
DanceSafe booth the whole day I was there.

[Eirias]

That's interesting, I talked with the DanceSafe people for quite some time on Fri.--What day did you work?

I had a fantastic time there-- although I liked the line-up of
speakers at MindStates in 2001 better somewhat, I had a much better
time at this event. Jon Hanna couldn't have picked a better venue
for the event either-- it was a beautiful building and the park grounds
were great for exploring in between talks.

I also liked how many of the speakers would hang around the
tables by where MAPS was set up so people could talk with them
informally after their lectures. The set-up of various vendors
was nice too-- much better than in 2001, although that year BPC had a
little table and Kat Harrison (Terrance McKenna's ex-wife and the
mother of his kids) was there.

Although there were various things happening at night after the
talks in 2001, the Alex Grey CoSM party was an excellent way to get to
know people that were at the conf. in a more informal setting.
Alex was so friendly and down-to-Earth, and the vibes were so nice
there with all the art. The lines for the potty were too long
though, but I made friends in line anyway, so that made up for having
to hold my pee for so long!

Unfortunately, I heard a rumour that Jon went substantially into
debt putting on this event, and that MindStates might be on hiatus for
awhile as a result. This is really too bad-- I know a lot of
people had issues with the ticket costs, but after talking with Jon and
hearing how the expenses broke down, it becaome clear that there was no
other way to go about it. Besides, with all the volunteer options
he made available, there really wasn't any way that someone could
complain that it was entirely too expensive to attend, unless perhaps
they were travelling from another continent/overseas.

I had a fantastic time, and made a number of good
friends/comrades there whom I'll be seeing at Burning Man and other
places in the near future. These events are a great way to
network with like-minded folks in the entheogenic community. See
you all at the next event (at least the next one in the US).

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[gn2osis]

^ If that rumor about Jon's losing money is true, I would kick in just
as I
bet a lot of people would. He shouldn't be shy about putting a
PayPal link on his site if this is so. It was a great event, and
I hope there are many more, without too much delay. To be really
honest, the presentations were something of a mixed bag IMO (e.g., I
can make up my own philosophy and would rather hear speakers on science
and anthropology, etc.), but I
expected that. And to each his/her own. Just the gathering
of
like minds and souls alone was a lovely thing.<!--
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Edited by: gn2osis

[jaguarangel]

What was truely inspiring to me was that Charles Grob is working with
terminally ill cancer patients using mushroom therapy and Ric Doblin is
using MDMA with post tramatic stress syndrome soldiers as they come back
from IRAQ.

[radiometer]

Eirias: I was there on Friday only, PM me and remind me what we talked
about!

It's too bad we didn't have an active thread on this beforehand, we
could've had a DF meet-up for dinner.

jaguarangel: Charles Grob's presentation was indeed inspiring! It was
the only one I saw besides the Shulgins'. I was also lucky enough to meet
and greet with him earlier in the day. He has directly picked up the lead
on this sort of research from Strassman, Grof, etc., and I wish him
great success. I was pissed that I forgot to bring my copy of his
anthology for signing.Edited by: radiometer

[jaguarangel]

I love the tribe meeting one another and networking in person. I help Jon
with Mind States so next time, I'll invite this tribe to meet one another!

[gn2osis]

edit -- whoops -- accidental post...



Instead I'll add a little about chatting with the Shulgins after their
Q+A. They were sitting at a table having coffee and were very
receptive to people coming up and asking questions, and were very at
ease giving autographs. I spent some time chatting with them
both, and they are really lovely people. It was also fun to watch
some of the more far-out people (including one guy who was a really
extreme, mystical alchemist type guy with lots of plus-4-ish anecdotes)
talk to them. I think they really get a kick out of hearing about
the explorations of the generations following in their footsteps.



At some point, the topic of Salvia D. came up and Sasha said that he
didn't really enjoy it (which I have to admit I don't either, really,
though it's certainly in its own class, powerful and weird and worthy
of respect). He then shared an amusing story about his earliest
experiment with Salvia. He acquired a cutting back in the '60's
and grew quite a bit of it, and since it was reportedly orally active
(Sibert wouldn't discover that it absorption was sublingual till many
years later), he harvested and ate as much as he could, threw up,
experienced no psychoactive effects whatsoever, and wrote it all off.



The funny thing is that he later discovered that his friend Albert
Hoffman had, around the same time and probably via the same source,
conducted the exact same experiment with the exact same results!



Ann also narrated an anecdote about the famous ethnobotanist Richard
Evans Schultes. If I remember it correctly, she said that
Schultes was a very formal kind of guy, always wearing a suit and
tie. At some point -- this was a little before Schultes began to
show the signs of Alzheimer's -- they visited him in a tropical
location. And he was clad in no shirt, but still had his tie on.



fun stuff ....

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Edited by: gn2osis

[Eirias]

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Speaking of Schultes, there's another funny story I
believe is in Tikhal in which he's at a conference, and Claudio Naranjo
is going up to everyone asking them about there experiences with
ayahuasca and Banisteriopsis caapi. He (Naranjo) had just done a
big "study" that he recently published about caapi and yaje producing
exclusively jungle-like motifs (jaguars, big snakes, vines, etc.) in
subjects from all over the world, regardless of their familiarity with
the traditioanl context of yaje/caapi usage, and attempts to confirm
the experiment by giving the substance to various people whom have
never been to the jungle or seen such things (such as Eskimo/Inuit
peoples, various No. American Indian tribes, Northern Europeans
unfamiliar with yaje, etc.). As he's going up to various folks at the
conference, and asking them, he comes up to R.E. Schultes and asks him...

Naranjo: "Have you taken the substance?"

Schultes: "Some 50-60 times"

N: "And did you get jungle motifs?"

S: "No. Nothing but wavy lines and blurred vision."

N: "And are you sure</span> that you are talking about the correct</span> species?"

S (straighening tie): "Sir, I am the one who named the
genus, species, and who first documented and photographed its
ethnographic use."

(Naranjo stopped asking people at that point...)



Furthermore, a friend of mine from MindStates who went to
several conferences with Schultes present in the 1980s said that he
described EVERY entheogen that he had ever taken in the same exact
way-- i.e. "I had blurry vision and saw some wavy lines"

[Toltec]

Are there any audio CD etc... available yet for this conference?