Effects - Getting off heroin, need help!!!

[tatidel87]

hi, im getting off junk and need some help. I heard that withdrawals are not as bad as ppl make it sound is like havin a cold or flu. So my concern is this: I have 5 8mg suboxone and 3 50mg seroquil, how should i take them? should i take the seroquil while im waiting to take the subox to help me sleep? im a regular user, but my dose is moderate (no more than 2 balloons a day sometimes 1 1/2) how bad would it be the first 24 hours w/out junk? i heard that after takin subox i ll b feelin like normal. One last question i work so would i b ok to work after taking the subox? thanks!!

[Donmeka]

first of all SWIM has to congratulate you on having the strength and will to make the decision to get clean and hopefully stay clean for good. SWIM has had bad experiences with seroquel but yes the majority of the time seroquel will help you get some snooze time, if SWIY can get a hold of some benzos like xanax (ONLY FOR SLEEP TIME don't want a new addiction) and once you feel the withdrawals coming try to stay with it a little bit if you can until you can't take it and give in to sticking that suboxone under ya tongue.

When it comes to the suboxone SWIM is not sure on how 2 bags (SWIM guesses that is .2???) converts into suboxone but SWIM would try just maybe half of one or a full 8mg to start and see how he feels and then judge how you will work your recovery from there.

SWIM did a pretty fast methadone detox recently over 10 days starting at 2 10mg methadones in the morning and 10mg at night the first 2 days and going down 5mg (1/2 a pill) everyday until he took 5mg for 2 days and was finished with his stash. extremely amazing to SWIM he had absolutely zero withdrawals and was fine and dandy, he was so happy that this method worked for him so well.

you can find SWIMs thread on his experience detoxing with methadone not to far down the line in this forum. and i wish you THE BEST of luck and SWIM prays for your well being and sobriety ^_^. and if you have any questions or SWIM can help in ANY way plz do not hesitate.

[tatidel87]

so how long should i wait? would it b ok 24 hours? and to start should i just take half of the subox (4mg)? are the 5 suboxones r going to b enough? i hope so...:S what i mean with 2 balloons a day is each balloon weights about .1 close to .15 rarely .2, but most of the time each ballon is .15

tatidel87 added 2 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

i inject

[phanzer]

just wait until you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms (dope sickness, headaches, chills, sweats, shits...you'll know). don't take it too soon or you will be sorry. it varies from person to person but 24 hours is a good estimate. getting off of those drugs is never going to be easy but you can do it with what you have. SWIM recommends taking the least amount of subox possible just to stay comfortable and get done what you need to get done so you can spread it out more. SWIM suggests starting with a half of a tablet.

also, as you come off of H, you can try going longer between your doses of subox as it does have a long half life.

SWIM actually just came back from the doctor today with suboxone and is looking forward to being clean from opiates very soon!

the best of luck to you! just stick with it, don't give up, and remember it is only a matter of time before you will be NATURALLY feeling better than ever before

[xxdan123xx]

Well wd intensity all depends on how big of a habit swiy has, wheter swiy inject sniff or smoke as well as swiy own body chemisty. Some people can do it some cant. Swim gets w.d.s on suboxin. Also if he takes nothing he pukes and cant sleep and is constantly shaking and pouring our sweat. So for some it is much worse than a cold but for some its really just mostly psycological.

[xxdan123xx]

Swiy want to wait as long as possible, Swim has never waited more than 6 hrs but try and go as long as possible before starting. Take half right away and wait an hour. If it doesnt help take the other half. Swim wants to taper down as quickly as possible b/c subox w/ds are worse than heroin w/d's, swiy would be in hell for weeks while H w/ds only last a couple days of hell maybe a week. Try to be off the subs in a week to two weeks tops.

[tatidel87]

OMG!!! thanks for all ur answers!!! so should i start w/ half a subox for day 1 (4mg suboxone for the first day), i think it will b enough too. so for the next days should i just take half a subox or a whole per day?? remember i only have 5 suboxs, if i can make them last n take the least amount the better.

tatidel87 added 1 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by tatidel87

hi, im getting off junk and need some help. I heard that withdrawals are not as bad as ppl make it sound is like havin a cold or flu. So my concern is this: I have 5 8mg suboxone and 3 50mg seroquil, how should i take them? should i take the seroquil while im waiting to take the subox to help me sleep? im a regular user, but my dose is moderate (no more than 2 balloons a day sometimes 1 1/2) how bad would it be the first 24 hours w/out junk? i heard that after takin subox i ll b feelin like normal. One last question i work so would i b ok to work after taking the subox? thanks!!

OMG!!! thanks for all ur answers!!! so should i start w/ half a subox for day 1 (4mg suboxone for the first day), i think it will b enough too. so for the next days should i just take half a subox or a whole per day?? remember i only have 5 suboxs, if i can make them last n take the least amount the better.

[chillinwill]

Start with taking 1/2 of the 8mg Suboxone pill (which would be 4mg) and that should be plenty. This theoretically should last SWIY ten days which will be more than enough to get through the majority of the physical withdrawals. The psychological withdrawals are another story as well as some lethargy and insomnia will more than likely still remain but hopefully this all goes well and will get SWIY through the first big hurdle. Let us know if SWIY has any more questions and keep us updated on SWIY's progress.

[tatidel87]

Great! So 4mg of subox each day will be enough to feel ok? Im so glad, i want to keep the subox intake low

[phanzer]

Originally Posted by tatidel87

Great! So 4mg of subox each day will be enough to feel ok? Im so glad, i want to keep the subox intake low

that's something only SWIY can figure out it depends on duration of SWIY's habit, SWIY's body chemistry, and purity of SWIY's gear. hope it is!

[ex-junkie]

Originally Posted by tatidel87

Great! So 4mg of subox each day will be enough to feel ok? Im so glad, i want to keep the subox intake low

you know what, if swiy "believes" it will work, then it will increase swiys chances of success. alot of the withdrawal on suboxone/bupe, swim believes is psychological. everybody has come to expect horrid withdrawals, after having experienced cold turkey withdrawals, and the mind goes a little overboard with it. if swiy can find something to keep them busy, then they will find that things arent at all that bad with said distraction, as opposed to lying around all day thinking about/expecting withdrawals.

minimal dosing is actually quite effective. swim managed a taper off of IV methadone with the subutex, and her taper was done and dusted in ten days. in hindsight, it was such a tiny amount of time in her life, and shes more than kicking herself that she didnt do it sooner.

so keep that in mind. it WILL work, swiy WONT need much, and most of all, swiy CAN do this.

after a bupe taper, its really a good idea to get a doctor to do a narcan challenge/or even better low dose naltrexone. its completely worth it, because then you can be sure there is nothing left in your system when youre done. narcan is short acting, so opiates tend to win out over the fight to bind on the receptors, but naltrexone is much stronger than opiates, and this is what swim opted for once her taper was up. she thinks this is the reason why she didnt suffer from PAWS afterwards, and didnt crave opiates anymore.

just a thought. dont know whats available to swiy in swiys area, so might be helpful to ring about and ask around to see whats on offer. here is oz, the narcan challenge is free as an incentive for detoxing addicts, though the naltrexone induction she was just lucky to be seeing an opiate specialist who went above and beyond his duty of care to patients.

[phanzer]

the best judge is SWIY and how SWIY is feeling. SWIM advises to wait as long as you can between suboxone doses (ie. once you've already started it) then take a half only if you feel really crappy from withdrawal symptoms and need it to continue. in SWIM's opinion, take that half on day one, give it an hour or two, and by then you will know if it helped or not.

for the following days try the same thing. if after an hour it hasn't helped, SWIM would say take another half or maybe even a quarter considering SWIY is trying to conserve pills.

be conscious of SWIY's pill supply and once SWIY has half left, try hard to cut back even if SWIY doesn't feel as comfortable! hang in there and good luck.

phanzer added 0 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by chillinwill

. Let us know if SWIY has any more questions and keep us updated on SWIY's progress.

exactly!

[m.swinehart81]

If swiy is going to get on suboxone then they need to be in full/intermediated withdrawls before siwy takes the subxone otherwise it will push you into precipitated withdrawls. Believe me, you dont want this to happen! It sucks. Swim been there done that and would never want to go through it again. Here is a link for swiy to look at. Swiy needs to score at least a 26 on this worksheet before taking the suboxone.

www.aoaam.org/clinicaltools/I.%20COWS%20worksheet.doc

Good luck!

[rokman nash]

Try taking 4,4,4 3,3,3 2,2,2 1,1,1 .05,.05 .05 this should work ok.

Despite what swim may have heard, you do not have to be in WDs to start Bupe in my friends opinion.

Dave has done this more than once with initial success.while taking major doses of opiates. If Dave can help PM, and he will do what he can.


Good Luck Good Thoughts

[dyingtomorrow]

If SWIY is doing 1.5 - 2 balloons a day you should be fine with 4 mgs, maybe even 2 mgs would get you right. With a relatively low tolerance such as that, you also might not have to wait until full blown withdrawals as Rokman said.

However a mitigating factor might lie in the fact that you say "balloons," which leads SWIM to assume you are using tar? I know there is something of a "cocktail" of opiates in black tar - 6-MAM, morphine, heroin, codeine, etc. Not really sure what the percentages are, or if any stay in your receptors longer than typical H4 (which the Bupe waiting period data/advice is geared towards, SWIM assumes). Might not make any difference, but SWIM is just speculating and it could be something worth looking into if no one here can answer right away because it could affect time. *shrugs*

[tatidel87]

Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow

if swiy is doing 1.5 - 2 balloons a day you should be fine with 4 mgs, maybe even 2 mgs would get you right. With a relatively low tolerance such as that, you also might not have to wait until full blown withdrawals as rokman said.

However a mitigating factor might lie in the fact that you say "balloons," which leads swim to assume you are using tar? I know there is something of a "cocktail" of opiates in black tar - 6-mam, morphine, heroin, codeine, etc. Not really sure what the percentages are, or if any stay in your receptors longer than typical h4 (which the bupe waiting period data/advice is geared towards, swim assumes). Might not make any difference, but swim is just speculating and it could be something worth looking into if no one here can answer right away because it could affect time. *shrugs*

yeah, yeah is black tar. On these last few days im trying to lower from 2 balloons to 1 1/2. U dont know how happy it made me to read ur post, it gave me so much hope and more will to do this!!! So u say start with 2mg?? Im planning on leaving to my moms house which is 4 hours away to start my detox so i'll b away from everything in 2 weeks if i get permission from my manager, hopefully it will b ok w/ him, im pretty sure it will.

tatidel87 added 193 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

another question: can u sleep normally after takin subox?

tatidel87 added 16 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

would anyone give an idea on how to take my doses of subox like:
example:
day 1: x mg
day 2: x mg
day 3: x mg
day 4: x mg
day 5: x mg
i want to do this in 5 days if possible, also would i be able to sleep after takin subox? i got 3 50mg seroquil pills too

[tatidel87]

hey!!!!!!!! so i asked my boss n got his permission! im so excited, but scared too. Im gettin ready, i got some sleeping pills (tylenol) besides the 3 5omg seraquil which im gonna divide in half for 6 days, ibuprofen of 800 mg, pills for sinus, nyquil gel caps, of course my 5 subix, n probably i ll get about 30 xanax pills (i dont want to used them as a sleepin aid just enough to make me feel better n relaxed), thats what i got i should probably get some stomach medicine, but i dunno if i will need it since im gonna have the subox probably my mom has some too. Im also planning on takin a colon, body cleanser, just to start as new. It probably sounds like im leaving for war but for me it is. I just want to be prepared and please help me with the subox chart to have an idea:
day 1: x mg
day 2: x mg
day 3: x mg
day 4: x mg
day 5: x mg
Thanx for all ur support! i ll keep u updated with my "journey" i know i ll make it! im gonna make itttttttttttt!!!

tatidel87 added 158 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

i found a whole bottle of trazodone my doctor prescribed me months ago, it put me to sleep 4 almost 14 hours n i drowsy 4 the rest of the day so i think it will help during the detox besides seraquil, what u think?

[ex-junkie]

swim thinks swiy should do some research into those drug combinations, just to be sure its safe to take them together.

[tatidel87]

hey!! im finally getting ready to go to my moms house next week. On monday night im planning on taking my last shoot of h at midnight so i can sleep. Then on tuesdAy while im waiting 4 wds i ll take some ibuprofen or cyclobenzaprine of 10mg that i have to reduce aches. At 8pm or 10pm (thats like 20 hours after my last shoot) i will take my first dose of subox (4mg), if i cant sleep ill take half a seroquil. I think that will make it, what u think?