Desperately Need Help Before My Life Disapears

[needtostop]

SWIM asked me to pass on this letter that he wrote to me....

I am pleading for any support anyone out there can offer me. I am alone in my house with several weeks off of work to deal with a problem I am ashamed of and that is ripping apart my life and my marriage.

It all started several years ago where I got a taste of oxy and loved it. For the next two years I occassionaly dabeled with opiates, anything i could get my hands on, but never took anything for more than a few days in a row with usually several weeks or months between experiences.

Fast forward to 11 months ago...I began using poppy pod tea and within weeks it escalated from once every 4 days to every day. I started with 7 pods and by the end i was using 50 large pods per dose...consuming several liters of fluid. This happened once a day anad I found that if i stopped for two days I felt horrible withdrawals....so i continued. I had a medical problem about 3 months ago which resulted in me being presribed oxycodone. It started with medium doses (as I was already tolerant due to the pods)...my doctors didn't know why i required such high doses. Within a month I was taking 400 mg oxycontin daily with 25mg oxyir every 2-3 hours.

I hated my life at this point and was no longer experiencing pain so i tapered down and off the oxycontin within 2 weeks. That left me with the oxyir. I tapered that down to 80-100mg a day over the course of 1 month which is where i stand today. I have been given clonidine patch to help with my withdrawal. The dose is 0.2mg per day and i have 4 patches. I only have two weeks off of work and I am deadset on quitting. I stopped all oxycodone and waited. Everything seemed to be going well and then about 24 hrs later I felt like I could jump 30ft in the air it was so wired and fidgety. I felt like my brain was on fire and moving a million times a minute. It was so awful that 30 hrs after my last dose, i relapsed and took a dose of oxy. I am so disheartened at my failure and continued to take oxy thru the day today. I am still motivated and just took my last dose of oxy again and am even more motivated this time. I figure if i have the same problem again i will put two clonidine patches on to help deal with it.

I desperately need support from you guys on here. I've only been on oxy for 3 months so i hope i can kick it despite the high dose. I've tried to taper but failed. That's why i'm going cold turkey. I don't wish to use suboxone or methadone. I know about hte thomas recipe but can't get benzos. I'm stuck with what i have in the time frame i have. 14 days and i already quandered two of them.

I feel like such a failure and i feel as if i can't handle this on my own given my relapse only 30 hrs into detox. I need to be free of this med. My problem really isn't psychic addiction but more physical dependance. I have no compulsion to take the medicine. The only time i feel i have to take it is when i feel intense withdrawal symptoms. I could so easily kick it if it wasn't for withdrawal. Once I have withdrawan and been off oxy for at least 14 days, I plan on using it for lingering pain no more than one low dose every two days if needed. This will not result in becoming dependant again and i know i can control the use after going thru withdrawal. Thanks for anyones help.

[oxynomo]

If one plans on quitting then they should not have access to any more of the drug even though it'll make you feel better it just prolongs the inevitable.Swiy does know that cold turkey is no picnic.Plan on a very shitty first couple of days.Must really be determined that you do want to quit.Stay focused.Swim doesn't know about doubling the clonidine patches as you dont' want the blood pressure to drop too low.Maybe check with your doctor.Get some exercise-walk,run,swim whatever.Long very hot baths may help with some of the stress.Swim wishes he could help more as he knows first hand what swiy will encounter.Sucks.Good luck.o

[Dickon]

Hi NeestoStop,

Welcome to DF. Please take a moment before you next post to look at the rules here: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules . Please note the no self-incrimination rule: this goes for all drugs legal and illegal. Many people use SWIM - "someone who isn't me" or talk about dreams or hypothetical situations involving cats of flamingoes or such like! It will save me having to edit your posts, which I've done this time, or getting an infraction for breaking the rules.

Anyway, to more important things....I empathise. My cat has been in situations where he's been the wrong side of a withdrawal. Even though he once though it was simply a case of getting to the other side of the physical withdrawal symptoms, this really isn't how it works. Although I do believe, contrary to the received wisdom, that getting clean is the hardest part, the staying clean has got to be done for longer, a lot longer! Also, be aware that after the first few days/weeks of really bad w.d.s are over, the body and mind take a fair few months to settle. There is information about this in a thread on PAWS (post-accute withdrawal syndrome).

But, for now, I suggest you take a look at this thread:A how-to guide to opiate detoxification. 4 0.2mg/day clonidine patches will help, assuming the patches are supposed to work for 7 days, but quitting from 80mg-100mg of oxycodone is never going to be a walk in the park. The most important thing is to have a realistic appreciation of what you can and can't put up with. In the words of one of my favourite clichés, good intentions butter no parsnips. It's incredibly easy to have a good intention after a dose of a favourite opiate, but when the shit hits the fan, and withdrawals kick in, that's when the reality of any intention is put to the test.

If this was just a blip, by all means try again cold turkey. If you are just using 1 patch, it might be worth adding a second or a third or fourth. Even 0.8mg of clonidine a day is a perfectly acceptable dose for opiate withdrawal. If you do chose to do this, take a look at the advice/warning in the how to thread linked to above about clondine and blood pressure. Add the patches slowly if this is what you chose to do: maybe one every 12/24 hours. Please also know I am not a medical doctor, so treat my advice appropriately.

The good news is that this is achievable! Many of us on here have cats who have quit opiates. I found writing a journal on here really helpful, especially as you won't be getting much or any sleep for the first few days or weeks. There are, of course, NA meetings nearly everythwere which help many people get and stay clean, although these are not for everyone.

Do not underestimate the difficulty of the task at hand. You are not a failure if things didn't go according to plan. Use the experience to learn more about what you face. There is an awful lot of information and person tales on this site and for my cat DF was his primary support network when he was going through his opiate withdrawal. It's a great place with lots of friendly and experienced people who are here to help!

Best of luck but do not expect a quick fix of a solution here.

Dickon

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent post with detailed info to help the OP

[Spucky]

It sounds like that Swiny still have kind of control to his Habit!
This is a good ground to build something new.

How Swiny use his Oxy`s?
Oral?
Do swiny break the Tabs and destroy the Mechanism?

What Swiny think about a long-lasting Opioid like Buprenorphine/ Subutex-Suboxone?
Even if swiny not wish to take that it can be one Way,
because swiny need Time to developed new Strategies for his Life.

Just to Withdrawal do not work in 95% of all cases!

[ex-junkie]

closing the door on opiates is a very hard thing to do, but it can be done. swiys frame of mind sounds prepared to quit them, just not forever.

unfortunately if swiy wants to be free of withdrawals for life, then that door needs to be well and truly shut.

good thoughts.

[oxyc]

Swim knows how you are feeling as he is in the same boat with this drug and can totally sympathise with swiy, swim has run out of oxys before and gone through that hell but only for about 2-3 days and thinks there is worse to come, the burning and freezing seems to calm down after about 36 hrs but then the restless legs kick in and feels like swims mind is going to explode, dont feel as swiy has failed if swiy has to take something, swim tried really hard and ended up giving in its too much to take on at once especially if there is something there that will take the pain of w/d away.
When swim has had his operation and needs to stop oxys he is going to admit to his doctor he has a problem and see what he can do for him, if this draws a blank swim will go to a drugs councelor and a detox clinic, whatever it takes, the other day swim knew he was going to run out of oxy and wouldt be able to get some for around 7 days, he ended up scoring some h, he never had it before but the thought of facing 7 days of complete hell was too much, he now feels like he has failed in some way but on the other hand he has been able to function throughout the day instead of being doubled up in bed relying on swims wife to run around after him, pleae note swim is in no way condoning using this method, swim is just saying sometimes needs must and that was SWIMS way of dealing with the situation at the time, swim has now got his oxy medication but cant wait to be sober after the operation and realises that he will never be able to use opiates again without a high risk of addiction/dependance, Swim will do whatever it takes to get sober after surgery and this is where he has set his sights.
Good luck with whatever swiy decides, there is definatly light at the end of the tunnel

[rokman nash]

Please read my thread Descent, it could provide some insight into what you will deal with down the line.The initial quitting is easy if your mind and heart are in the right place.My friend Dave had four clean months before he relapsed, and is now clean again.It can be done CT if you really want it, but with a little Bupe it can be done virtually painless this way.

If Dave can help in any way please PM.


Good Thoughts

[thebige]

Hi needtostop,thebige here.....just wanted to say welcome,and to tell swineedtostop has found one of the better forums around,as this place has alot more concise info available then some of them and the bonus of good people too........
Try not to be ashamed of this problem,it can happen to anyone.....and does.
Also swim can see that swiy is trying to wrap this up in two weeks,and it is possible,but if for some reason things don't work out as planned,one can always regroup and attack this from another angle.Swiy should be able to gather 99% of the info needed through the posts,the people and the search engine.
Well good luck,and try to keep us all updated on how thing are going.And again welcome...........thebige

Reputation Comments on this post:

good response listing pros of site and motivating

[miggeth]

Swim doesn't want to sound like he's downgrading anyone's stuggles, but he's found physical withdrawals to be not that much of a problem. He just has to exercise. Endorphins fit right into opiate receptors, it's an almost miraculous, but often overlooked coincidence.

My parakeet has been taking opiates on and off for over three years, his problem with them is more pyscological. He can stop fairly easily, he just doesn't really want to.

He knows it's not what people want to hear, and it's the last thing people feel like doing in that situation. When people told him a year ago that exercise could be the key, He almost laughed at them. But over the last year he's built up his fitness until it really works.

The way my parakeet does it is, he exercises through the day, bike rides and weights, then takes just enough to get him through the night, tapering slowly. He's done this method once before but is now using codeine quite heavily again. He plans to write a journal on here in a week or two when his thumb heals.

[needtostop]

Well he is def. different. SWIM is no more than 20 hrs since his last dose and he's already climbing the walls. This is insane. He has to get thru it in two weeks. Thanks for everyone's support

[ex-junkie]

has swiy got some promethazine? OTC hayfever medicine.

at the very least, promethazine and clonidine (blood pressure meds), will make the experience that little bit more comfortable for swiy.

pm swim swiys aim addy if swiy likes. swim is always on there and swiy can vent what they want if swiy doesnt want to do this "alone".

[DopinDan]

Well I am def. different. I'm no more than 20 hrs since my last dose and i'm already climbing the walls. This is insane. I have to get thru it in two weeks. Thanks for everyone's support.

Bro, just a friendly suggestion...replace "I" with "SWIM" <---(Some One That Is Not Me) and "You" with SWIY <---(Some One That IS Not You) in your posts about using. It will help SWIY a lot on these forums, it's important to not self incriminate, and will help you greatly here.

Your post could read: "Well SWIM is def. different. It's no more than 20 hrs since SWIM's last dose and already SWIM is climbing the walls. This is insane. SWIM has to get thru it in two weeks. Thanks for SWIY's support" SWIDD<--(Someone That Is Not DopinDan) knows this kind of language is confusing at first, but its mandatory here.

SWIDD himself is on a LEGAL script for 50-70mgs norco for neck/arm pain for the last 3 years, and he knows what you mean about the withdrawals. Even though SWIDD's dose isnt super high, he feels uncomfortable when it wears off. After the doctors figure out what are SWIDD's alternatives for pain management, he is planning on trying to use suboxone to finally get off the norco.

There are many human beings here that are knowledgable and compassionate, and experienced. SWIDD is pulling for you and hopes you will achieve your goal.

[needtostop]

actually i shouldn't need to use swim because SWIM is prescribed this med legally from his doctor and wishes to stop taking it...which is also legal.

[Dickon]

You do need to use SWIM (or equivalent) even if the drugs are prescribed or legal. I will edit your posts this time, but in future please follow the forum rules.

Many thanks

Dickon

[needtostop]

well it's been 26 hrs and swim is about to kill himself. realizing swim may have been too ambitious in his cold turkey from 80-100mg daily dose, swim took 5 mg oxy this AM and will allow himself 5 mg oxy 2-3 times a day. Hell, if swim can be stabilized at that dose over the next few days....then dropping from there to 0 will prob. be much better tolerated. i love rationalization.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for using SWIM, you can reach your goal!

[Spucky]

Maybe for us, the Swim`s and Swinys,
it`s good to know what swiny already know about
"How to Withdrawal"?

This will help us to save Time!

[needtostop]

what swim knows about withdrawal? let me put it this way...swim may be a highly educated practicing medical type and is very familiar with what he's doing.

well to let everyone know, swim failed again in a big way. the 5 mg was no where near enough and he required 15 mg to halt withdrawal. but there was a big difference this time...

Swim learned some important things about himself. swim also thinks this latest "failure" isn't a failure at all. In fact swim was taking 80-100mg oxy just 4 days ago and through his two approx 27 hour cold turkey stops in just 3 days, it seems the withdrawal he did experience significantly dropped his tolerance and he is requiring less than 45 mg oxy a day now....HALF his prior dose.

SWIM is excited and now that it is this low, he feels 45 a day has been more than enough and he can easily drop to 30 a day tomorrow. Once he's there, he plans on dropping 10 mg every 4 days or so. This should make withdrawal much more bearable for swim's weak self.

It's funny that this only 27 hr cold turkey stop isn't viewed by SWIM as a failure this time...he's so happy his tolerance halfed itself and that he can now taper quickly and less painfully given he's on clonidine.

needtostop added 1 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Oh yeah, and in response to "what does swim know about withdrawal"...more importantly than being a medical type, he has read every post on this forum including other forums such as thomas recipe, etc.

Originally Posted by needtostop

what swim knows about withdrawal? let me put it this way...swim may be a highly educated practicing medical type and is very familiar with what he's doing.

well to let everyone know, swim failed again in a big way. the 5 mg was no where near enough and he required 15 mg to halt withdrawal. but there was a big difference this time...

Swim learned some important things about himself. swim also thinks this latest "failure" isn't a failure at all. In fact swim was taking 80-100mg oxy just 4 days ago and through his two approx 27 hour cold turkey stops in just 3 days, it seems the withdrawal he did experience significantly dropped his tolerance and he is requiring less than 45 mg oxy a day now....HALF his prior dose.

SWIM is excited and now that it is this low, he feels 45 a day has been more than enough and he can easily drop to 30 a day tomorrow. Once he's there, he plans on dropping 10 mg every 4 days or so. This should make withdrawal much more bearable for swim's weak self.

It's funny that this only 27 hr cold turkey stop isn't viewed by SWIM as a failure this time...he's so happy his tolerance halfed itself and that he can now taper quickly and less painfully given he's on clonidine.

[Dickon]

I have to say the 10mg reduction every 4 days seems to me a good plan. It smacks of common sense. You have not in any way failed as long as you are making forward progress.

My cat, though not a medical doctor, (he has been doctored as many cats have, but that's another story!) finds all this talk about "what do you know about withdrawals?" a bit odd. Withdrawals are experiential, and an ever changing source of wonder. Theoretical knowledge is about as useful as theoretical knowledge of juggling. It's not entirely useless, but without a bit of practice, it's fairly limited.

What practical advice? Warm baths. Cat once did a withdrawal having about 10 baths a day. It really helped warm him up, even if he couldn't stay in them. If the withdrawals are mild and access is available saunas can really help too.

Cat always found the nights were the killers, and spent a lot of time writing stuff on DF to pass the time when he last withdrew, which is one option. You really can write about anything and everything in the R&A section, if it will keep you moving forwards. I would imagine, based on Cat's experiences with morphine, that after a 10mg drop by the third, fourth or fifth day things will have settled, and that it will be a good time to plough forwards. By the time you get down to 20mg oxycodone a day, you might find a 5mg drop more sensible. The way to do this might be to drop to 10mg, but if you find this too much, take 5mg more. That way you give yourself a chance at dropping by 10mg.

The main thing is to stay strong, smack the monkey in the bollocks, and stand proud! We're here to give it the odd kick for you too!

All warm wishes

Dickon

[needtostop]

Tomorrow I will take 10mg x 3 doses every 8 hrs and will prob maintain that dose for 2-3 days. Then I will drop to 7.5 mg times 3 doses for 3-4 days, then 5 mg times three doses for 3-4 doses then 5 mg in two doses...then 2.5 in two doses and then stop. I am really curious what will happen after I stop from that dose because I have been steadily taking opiates for 9 months now. I wonder If I will still feel a moderate or worse withdrawal and how long it will last.

Originally Posted by Dickon

I have to say the 10mg reduction every 4 days seems to me a good plan. It smacks of common sense. You have not in any way failed as long as you are making forward progress.

My cat, though not a medical doctor, (he has been doctored as many cats have, but that's another story!) finds all this talk about "what do you know about withdrawals?" a bit odd. Withdrawals are experiential, and an ever changing source of wonder. Theoretical knowledge is about as useful as theoretical knowledge of juggling. It's not entirely useless, but without a bit of practice, it's fairly limited.

What practical advice? Warm baths. Cat once did a withdrawal having about 10 baths a day. It really helped warm him up, even if he couldn't stay in them. If the withdrawals are mild and access is available saunas can really help too.

Cat always found the nights were the killers, and spent a lot of time writing stuff on DF to pass the time when he last withdrew, which is one option. You really can write about anything and everything in the R&A section, if it will keep you moving forwards. I would imagine, based on Cat's experiences with morphine, that after a 10mg drop by the third, fourth or fifth day things will have settled, and that it will be a good time to plough forwards. By the time you get down to 20mg oxycodone a day, you might find a 5mg drop more sensible. The way to do this might be to drop to 10mg, but if you find this too much, take 5mg more. That way you give yourself a chance at dropping by 10mg.

The main thing is to stay strong, smack the monkey in the bollocks, and stand proud! We're here to give it the odd kick for you too!

All warm wishes

Dickon

needtostop added 50 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Just to add...SWIM was thinking...the most crucial step of this whole process to increase success will be to be on your last step down, say 2.5 mg twice a day and MAKE SURE that sWIM is stable with no withdrawal at this dose before stepping down. the key is making sure there is no withdrawal at this last step before jumping into the abyss...or rather back into life.

Originally Posted by needtostop

Tomorrow I will take 10mg x 3 doses every 8 hrs and will prob maintain that dose for 2-3 days. Then I will drop to 7.5 mg times 3 doses for 3-4 days, then 5 mg times three doses for 3-4 doses then 5 mg in two doses...then 2.5 in two doses and then stop. I am really curious what will happen after I stop from that dose because I have been steadily taking opiates for 9 months now. I wonder If I will still feel a moderate or worse withdrawal and how long it will last.

[Spucky]

My Cat thinks that Swiny give to much attention to the Stuff,
many People fight a lot with Reduction and suddenly, when they reach the Goal
they fall into a deep Hole!

My Cat thinks swiny have to go a Two-Way, one Side the Stuff and on the other Side
his personal Problems!
If he don`t have look to the psychological Side he can`t stay sober!
(My Cat thinks so, this means nothing)

[needtostop]

I heard from swim....

I can barely understand what you said but you have it wrong. The oxy i was prescribed was always for the pain...just that alone...i never have taken it to get high. I have attempted to quit twice at a fairly high dose and it isn't a craving or desire to get high that ruins me...it's the sheer pain of withdrawwal. This means that I am physically dependant but NOT addicted and therefore I don't need to address the psychological side. Many days when i don't have pain i'll go upwards of 20 hrs without taking any oxy and it's the withdrawal that forces me to take just enough to keeep it at bay. I'm lucky, once i'm thru the withdrawal i won't have to battle with addiction the rest of my life therefore the only barrier for my not using oxy is withdrawal or physical dependance. There is a big difference between that and psychic dependance or addiction. I recognize that fact puts me in the minority here. If you read my first post you will notice how i easily tapered from over 600 mg per day of oxy to just 80 mg per day of oxy in under two weeks. I was only limited by withdrawal that i felt and this governed the speed at which i came off of it. I haven't been on oxycontin since i tapered off. I could always get more but i don't because i don't need it to keep withdrawal at bay.

Originally Posted by Spucky

My Cat thinks that Swiny give to much attention to the Stuff,
many People fight a lot with Reduction and suddenly, when they reach the Goal
they fall into a deep Hole!

My Cat thinks swiny have to go a Two-Way, one Side the Stuff and on the other Side
his personal Problems!
If he don`t have look to the psychological Side he can`t stay sober!
(My Cat thinks so, this means nothing)

[psychotropicon]

My Cat thinks that Swiny give to much attention to the Stuff,
many People fight a lot with Reduction and suddenly, when they reach the Goal
they fall into a deep Hole!

Swim heard from AFOAF that other People can can help not just in reducing to the Goal, but in filling the Hole on the other side so Swiny won't fall in. It will still be damn hard after the primary WD stuff abates -- there's neuroreceptors that take a while to regrow, and a more permanent healthy balance of all sorts of brain chemicals need to restore to over time. The memory/reward system needs to (somewhat) forget -- and also to replace pleasant Stuff stimuli with healthier pleasant things (exercise, laughter, freinds, being part of a supportive group.) There was some football-star who turned to "golf therapy", so there are many paths.

My Cat thinks swiny have to go a Two-Way, one Side the Stuff and on the other Side
his personal Problems!
If he don`t have look to the psychological Side he can`t stay sober!

Totally agree. Swiny needs to prepare psychologically for the Life After, which will be scary, but with the support of others (pros & bro's) the scare will become anticipation, satisfaction, and a mental sense of accomplish and earned self-respect.

Obviously the AFOAF tends get smarmy, but swim thinks he got some wisdom...

[needtostop]

you need to read my last post as well...

Originally Posted by psychotropicon

Swim heard from AFOAF that other People can can help not just in reducing to the Goal, but in filling the Hole on the other side so Swiny won't fall in. It will still be damn hard after the primary WD stuff abates -- there's neuroreceptors that take a while to regrow, and a more permanent healthy balance of all sorts of brain chemicals need to restore to over time. The memory/reward system needs to (somewhat) forget -- and also to replace pleasant Stuff stimuli with healthier pleasant things (exercise, laughter, freinds, being part of a supportive group.) There was some football-star who turned to "golf therapy", so there are many paths.



Totally agree. Swiny needs to prepare psychologically for the Life After, which will be scary, but with the support of others (pros & bro's) the scare will become anticipation, satisfaction, and a mental sense of accomplish and earned self-respect.

Obviously the AFOAF tends get smarmy, but swim thinks he got some wisdom...

[Spucky]

Okay, my Cat is a Foreigner and don`t speak and read English so well,
but she feels a little bit unwell when she read stuff like that:

I am pleading for any support anyone out there can offer me. I am alone in my house with several weeks off of work to deal with a problem I am ashamed of and that is ripping apart my life and my marriage.

How swiny think this Problem is just related to the Oxy-addiction?
Because Oxy`s is just a Pill and for swiny "just Medicine"!

[psychotropicon]

Actually I did read the previous post, and the initial ones as well. Swim accepts that swimy has not been in the considerable pain of WDS at some times when he reduce dosage, but at other times the opposite seems to be the case.

I have a pretty smart dog as dogs go, and unless my dog is mistaken, you didn't have a severe chronic intractable pain situation. My dog has been in such a case of VERY severe pian for some months, was taking more than 130mg of IV morphine per day plus other stuff (IIRC that's roughly equivalent to 400-600mg of oral oxycodone per day.) The dog was in so much damn pain that the dosage didn't even make him feel groggy, and certainly not ashamed or upset, just thankful for it. If the morphine blood levels got too low, the dog would just as soon have had a knockout punch to the head as the morphine (well except for the increased pain from the concussion upon awakening). Physiologically the morphine was not overdriving the VTA's stimulus of it's nucleus accumbens a causing a dopamine flood, it was just mitigating the pain signals.

At least that's the limit of my dog's understanding of a very complex issue.

When the pain more or less subsided, his doc (vet?) only gave him 14 5mg/500mg Percocets TOTAL to completely get over whatever dependence had developed, as well as preventing him from pooping uncontrollably on the carpet. The dog was very apprehensive of the WDS awaiting him, but it never came! And this dog was no saint, he'd done all this stuff before and has since, for the euphoria of it. But his doggie friends made sure he kept it to a rare occurrence and it's never been a problem or made him desperate for help. (Other bad habits have taken there toll on him though, he gets by with a little help from, yada, yada...)

Legitimate drug use can become unhelpful dependency, and insidiously turn into an addiction. I've seen it, though it certainly has not happened to me.

Next parable up: "Goldilocks and the Three Bears"

Or perhaps, "The Little Train that Could" until it saw the end of he tracks and decided it "needed to stop".


Quote:
Originally Posted by neddtostopyou need to read my last post as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychotropicon
Swim heard from AFOAF that other People can can help not just in reducing to the Goal, but in filling the Hole on the other side so Swiny won't fall in. It will still be damn hard after the primary WD stuff abates -- there's neuroreceptors that take a while to regrow, and a more permanent healthy balance of all sorts of brain chemicals need to restore to over time. The memory/reward system needs to (somewhat) forget -- and also to replace pleasant Stuff stimuli with healthier pleasant things (exercise, laughter, freinds, being part of a supportive group.) There was some football-star who turned to "golf therapy", so there are many paths.

Totally agree. Swiny needs to prepare psychologically for the Life After, which will be scary, but with the support of others (pros & bro's) the scare will become anticipation, satisfaction, and a mental sense of accomplish and earned self-respect.

Obviously the AFOAF tends get smarmy, but swim thinks he got some wisdom...

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very decent rational post. Good use of SWIyour experiences. Good for keeping a cool head