the cocaine and self control thread

[Nicaine]

I'm trying to figure out if I can use some willpower and/or other methods (even NA meetings or whatever) to only use occasionally. Last 4 months I've been going fuckin' crazy to the moon, to the severe detriment of my body, mind & finances (the latter of which have been cremated and scattered... I've applied for welfare and figured out which food bank covers my zipcode).


Trying to see if I can stick to between 2 to 4g/month, which is about what I can afford at the moment. Doesn't matter when I use it, but that's all I'm gonna use, period.


Can you use controlled, or can you not help going crazy? If you can stay under control of the cola, what head talk or other methods do you use to do it, or do you just use willpower? Or is it just no big deal & you use at a party every once in awhile? Very curious what people typically do around here.



I know the whole party line about addiction and how people are "powerless" but I don't believe a chemical can take power over someone in a literal sense. The difference between animals and humans is that humans have a higher brain cortex that can override all impulses, even hunger and thirst. We can go to war and intentionally put ourselves in the line of fire knowing we'll probably die. In other words, we can even override survival instincts. We are not powerless.



Curious for responses, please elaborate in detail if you have the time. I'm excellent at disagreeing with people as long as they're civil and don't attack me, please be totally free to voice disagreements.

[dayslug24]

A friend of mine once said addictions are ways we intentionally hurt ourselves for a deep, unknown reason.

A change the chemical balance in our brains will force us to act a certain way with no control. People with mental illness cannot control how they act- this is because of a chemical imbalence. This is what programs our thoughts and actions. Depression is temp. curbed by changing saratonin levels in the brain. You cant make yourself better from clinical depression - you have to even the imbalence ( prozak, etc..) to feel normal.



Just my thoughts

[Nicaine]

But even someone with deep clinical depression *can curb their behavior*... can you see what I'm getting at? The higher cortex *inhibits* behavior, so what we do (re: complex actions like using a drug) is always a matter of choice at the pure thought level.



Of course I'm excluding serious brain disorders like schizophrenia and (maybe) severe depression too. But we always have a choice to refrain from an action on some level, don't you think so?

[Rifter]

I can control it, although i have only been doing it for a year off and on, i usualy do about 2 - 4 grams a month(Note i usualy dont pay for it, sell enough to cover my personal use). I stopped a couple of times over the last year for 1-2 months at a time and found it easy to do, no withdrawl or anything, no cravings either. I think it just takes willpower i mean the high is great but then again so is sex, and what do you do when you have no GF, you deal with it, same thing when you have no blow or no cash, just deal with it, it aint the end of the world. Just my thoughts.





Rifter

[tarbosh]

It's easy to stop if you're not in a crowd that's doing. I only have a couple friends that party like that, and it's easy for me to get into and out of it, doing a little every 3-6 weeks.

[Wizry]

Nicaine raises a good point for discussion


When contemplatedon a philosophical level, it sounds like the issue of whether or not we can control our drug impulses can be related to the general issue and debate over the existence of "free will." The proponents believe in the fact that we (our choices, ideas, and ambitions) are the motivations behind our desires and the determining factors behind the eventual outcome of our every action and would therefore by this definition be said to believe in free will. Moreover, cocaine is thought of as being associated with our underlying desires as well as the outcome of our actions. However, consider for a moment this a substance that can on a very real level be controlled: cocaine being a physical manifestation of something we take in this case as synonymous with its perceived ability to render us powerless. But let us first explore the second category:


Those inclined to believe the opposite, that drugs are an overwhelming substance of which we have physical proof of its neurological effects and its capability to cause physical addition – meaning our physical selves "needing" more cocaine, rely on the certainty of the withdrawal symptoms we all experience to some degree. This is what I like to all the "this is your brain on drugs" mentality. These individuals believe in the proven aspects of a substance and read into the understood and accepted literature and testimony of others. These, combined with their own reality and experiences, leads the to believe in the fact that if you crack two eggs over a stove, sooner or later they’ll be in the pan – and so will your life. No free will and cocaine will leave one powerless over it.


Now I’ not meaning to be cheezy by citing such a mundane and seemingly silly example, but I chose it for its simplicity. What you see is what you will get, eggs in pan = sizzle sizzle. In other words, dabble with coke, the realization that you are in a bit too deep sets in, then so finally does the belief that there is no getting out . . .


I personally believe in the fact that we are the most gifted beings on this planet. It has been documented that the average person can only use at most 14% of the brain, Einstein using like 17% – the rest has not even been tapped into and we are too complex for cocaine to rule us – we are capable of more than we give ourselves credit for and we are the masters of our existence. Whether you dig what I’ getting at, are confused out of your head, or are simply laughing right now at the "put yourself on a pedestal above ‘existence-driving substances’ that you THINK you have no control over" mindset, AKA for the above purposes the decision surrounding the concept of free-will, we were all put here for a reason and we were all given the power on some level to not succumb to cocaine if we truly wish not to. Cocaine and other drugs can change us chemically, true, but if we truly desire to - set a limit on desire? Cannot. To the struggling: Nicaine, myself and others you, we, all encompassing: can and will pull ourselves out – it’s the power of free will and the faith in that power the drives this certainty – (regarding faith: not of where it comes from - if you believe in a God you may have faith in him, her, or them - and if not, have faith in the incredible beings, like it or not, that we most certainly are) and that makes the reality of sheer uninhibited possibility an available and most certainly attainable resource. No drug has COMPLETE power over any of us – there is always a bit of us left, no adder how far we’ve fallen, and mind you this ever-present scrap of self is all we need, left to fight and get clean if that is the path we truly desire to take. Though in this day it may seem to be the path less traveled by others we know and love in the same situation – it will always remain available and clear, no matter the season.


Just a thought

[Nicaine]

I'd like to add an interesting real-world experience (well, imaginary, given that I don't use drugs and we don't talk about doing them here -- consider this a possible scenario worded as an event for the sake of discussion):



Awhile ago, I was looking at the vial and feeling a real sense of fear because it was running low (as it inevitably, invariably and always does). Terror, even. I was thinking My God, when I run out it's like the world comes to an end... the feeling was that powerful.



** This feeling was an illusion **



Why? Because it ran out (as it always does), and it felt so GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD to come down afterward. I slept for a long time, and woke up feeling great. Didn't even think about the stuff that day. Or the day after. Or the day after that.



The feeling of fear was an illusion brought on by a form of temporal distortion.



One of the effects of many drugs is to narrow horizons to "this moment." One temporarily loses the ability to see beyond the next minute, 5 minutes, maybe 24 hours max. I'm sure everyone here can relate to that, or to someone like that.



The interesting thing is that in recovery, people also talk about "one day at a time." One narrows their horizons yet again, but this time by choice rather than by illusion or compulsion.



Now here's the issue that I feel tends to drive addiction: Lack of a "life," I.E. a satisfactory life experience. Either such a state existed before a person starts using addictively, or it happens afterward as a result of drug use. Either way, one reaches the point where there's "nothing happening" but drug use. To quit sounds like an extreme bore, and a dead/dull life without pleasure. Again, an illusion in the purest sense but it feels real.



IMO this is exacerbated with people who naturally lack motivation. I feel that people who are lacking in drive and motivation tend to get addicted (not attracted to, but addicted) to cola. It does give you a false feeling that you can do anything, that anything is possible. For a person depressed, lacking motivation and/or bored to death with life the attraction may be too strong to resist. One has to get away from the stuff long enough to really "get a life" (and then the drugs look far less attractive). Easier said than done, of course.



Just some random thoughts (and off topic, too). Thought I'd post 'em anyway. Thanks Wizry, I enjoyed your post.

in a couple of weeks, i am getting 2 grams, and havin a good nite out
with my m8, i want to make the coke last all nite, but when i have 1
line i cant stop ding it, is there any way to stop the craving for
more, i will also have alcohol and a half ounze of weed, will that help
at all??

[uqlfy]

Yeah, leave half at home. Some people have self control, others dont. Me I dont.



r when you want to stop just smoke an drink till you pass out.( not recommended)

Or as hard as it may sound just stop when you dont want to use anymore.

As for cravings some people say xanax or wellbutrin are good for those.
Dont take wellbutrin with alchohol though and be carefull mixing xanax
with alchohol. The former increases risk of seizures and the latter can
serioulsy depress the central nervous system

[Nahbus]

self restraint, man. Maybe make a little schedule for yourself. like
split the 2 grams into a couple piles and do a pile every hour or
something like that. You will always want more, though. It's addictive
because it's hard to stop the cravings. You can't really get around it.

[Muirner]

If you are going out then take only what you want to do and leave what you want to save. Also why not split it up into like 2 maybe 3 baggies, and then that way you can say "this is for this night" this is for that. or what ever. ALso a little self restraint never hurt.

One more thing, after you do a rail, i know it's tempting to jump right back in for that "bump up" to try to achievethe original high. I would say try to avoid going back to the bag for a little bit, try to space out your blows. Because think about it, how do crackheads go through so much crack? Chasing the high, they always wanna get as high as they were when they hit the pipe the first time (either that day or whenever). So space shit out it'll last longer.


Muirner

[The Black Dahlia Murder]

Hello

Sorry to bother you but SWIM is keen on occasional use of cocaine, SWIM knows about how powerfully addictive the white rabbit is but SWIM wants advice from experienced users

So my question is: If SWIM were to take cocaine monthly (about 2-4 lines a time) would SWIM still be at risk to addiction? What time period would you suggest to not be at risk of addiction? Is there a risk of addiction after the first use?

Thanks

Reputation Comments on this post:

usefull

[KorSare]

It varies, from person to person, I would think.

My uncle's maid puts a limit at no more than once per week. But in reality, her usage is probably closer to once a month - but the limit is still there, and she will enforce it.

Forget knowing the substance. In my opinion, it's all about how well you know yourself. How much self control do you know you have? Do you know your strengths and your weaknesses? Are your personal morals set in concrete? Where do you draw the line? And do you know if you can trust yourself to hold it?

Self awareness is key.... and it also helps to have a few very close friends that you can confide. They'll usually be the first to tell you if your usage is negatively affecting the rest of your life.

My uncle's maid won't use more than once a week.

Anything more than that, in my uncle's opinion, would require a great deal of self control and discipline to keep from spiraling out of control.

But he doesn't know you. You're the one who has to decide whether you can handle more or less than that.

[robin_himself]

Originally Posted by KorSare

Forget knowing the substance. In my opinion, it's all about how well you know yourself.

Bad advise! knowing the substance is very very important. Its critical that you know exactly what drug you're dealing with and be 100% familiar with what it is about. When one accumulated all this knowleadge than one turns to himself and asks if he could meet that criteria of Health & Addiction.

You could be ever so self-confident but when you meet the wrong drug for YOU than it will get hard.

[KorSare]

Mmmmm perhaps "forget" was too harsh of a word to use. What I mean to get across, is that knowing your own body and mind should be a top priority, rather than knowing everything about a certain substance and being "100% familiar with what it is about"

Sure, you could know the chemical structure of cocaine, all of its effects, prime dosages, ways to beat the comedown, and have read up on a vast borage of user experiences.... you could also be so experienced, as to rate its addictive potential compared to other narcotics... but in the end, I think that only knowing your own limits, and knowing if the personality and mentality you possess can enforce those limits, can help you judge whether or not certain scenarios could prove to be addictively deadly.

But that's my opinion, as I clearly stated in my previous post. And of course, people are entitled to their own.

Mmmmm, and here's a friendly reminder that in the forum rules, the "how to use the reputation system" thread clearly states that negative feedback based on opinion differences alone, are not condoned.

Just a heads-up.

[Bladerunner]

The Black Dahlia Murder,

Don't wanna sound preachy but this person you know needs to be wise. Best stay clear all together if they are not too sure then that way they've nothing to worry about.....

[raven3davis]

It all depends on who you are. There is no safe zone for addiction. Some people get hooked the first time. Only you know how far your body can go. No SWIM on this board is going to be able to tell you how often you can use cocaine without getting addicted. It is all about self control. If you have it, you can use cocaine as much as you want without getting addicted (although this is unrecommended). If you do not have self control then you could very possibly get addicted after using cocaine one time. The only way to prevent addiction is to stay sober. If you cant stay sober, you are juggling fire.

[AceOvArts]

The more you do this drug the more you will want it (we all start with a line or two my friend). Even if you put a cap on it youll end up counting the days until you take it again.
I would be very careful with coke if I were you, cos though it may not happen now it has a nasty way of getting you in the end.
Of course, alot of people I know can stay away for along time before using again, but the more regular you are the more likely you are to increase youre useage.
Trouble with addictive substances is you dont think youre hooked until its too late,which is very annoying.
Even the most headstrong of people can succumb to this baby, SWIM knows as he has had his fair share (and probably a bit more than that) of the white stuff.
My advice is this, play with fire and you are more likely to get burnt than not. Saying that, if you are gonna do it, enjoy it, but not too much.

[oldman]

AceOvArts,

this is the best advice, that stuff is so sneaky too. if you've had some fun with it and don't feel too compelled to try it more, consider yourself lucky and leave it at that. I have seen the most self controlled people become so hollow and just piss their lives away without anyone even knowing for a lng time until it was too late. I'm all for decriminalization except for this little lady, if $ is not a problem you're gonna have a big problem quick. sorry to the people who praise this stuff but it has wrecked a lot of oldman's friend's lives and almost his own 15 years ago. luckily some people intervened before he pissed away everything.

[Nicaine]

SWIM has had a pattern of binge use (for a period of 2-3 months), followed by long periods of not using it. This too is a possible way, both to release control and to maintain it. You let the substance have its way for brief periods, and then don't touch the substance for long periods in between. This may work for some people, SWIM has found it effective in the past. It has its risks, of course. Harm reduction techniques are essential.

[fletch]

Nicaine,

i agree, this seems to work for me as well, however sometimes its really strange trying to stop i find, because some binges can be terribly long far more than 3-4 months everyday, trying to get in and out of habits like that takes its toll on ya.

[idr0p]

if you have already tried it... do you think about it alot? do you contemplate getting more? if you have some in front of you could you stop yourself from doing it?..... these are feelings/urges you are going to have to control... can you handle that? if you have any doubt dont because you need to be commited or you may end up ommited.. swim has 2 gs in his desk and he hasnt touched it for a week. thats control do you have that?

[markdahman]

do you think about it alot? Only when contemplating the financial situation
do you contemplate getting more? If money is not an issue, OF COURSE!
if you have some in front of you could you stop yourself from doing it? Depends how much i spent in ratio 2 how much money i have left!

Oh yeah just noticed my signature goes in nicely with this one!

[b16a]

The Black Dahlia Murder

The addiction is 100% mental, not physical. The difference between the habitual user and the recreational user is purely psychological. If you start to enjoy it too much, you are at risk of becoming mentally addicted. Depending on your state of mind, usage in people with addictive personalities, may become addicted to a point where cocaine becomes routine. In this case you will find yourself doing things (stealing, cheating, etc.) that you would have never done before your first line. SWIM's advice - QUIT NOW, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by The Black Dahlia Murder

So my question is: If SWIM were to take cocaine monthly (about 2-4 lines a time) would SWIM still be at risk to addiction? What time period would you suggest to not be at risk of addiction? Is there a risk of addiction after the first use?

The word "addiction" actually has many different definitions.

If you want to go by stats -- I read that approximately 10-15% of all cola users end up using it "addictively" (vs. social or occasional use). Not too bad a statistic at all, and that number actually sounds high to me. In contrast, nicotine has an 85% addiction rate.

So in closing -- the possibility is always there, and it has more to do with 'you' and less to do with the substance. IMO anyway. Opiates are probably more predictable, due to the documented 'physical' addiction and hard-to-miss withdrawal syndrome.

P.S. addictive use of cola is dumb... why? Because tolerance builds rapidly. So, SWIM tells me, do the severity of the comedowns. The pleasure decreases exponentially, the risks go up too. Avoid! Unless you are a maniac who actually likes the negatives involved (SWIM has known a few).