Pharmacology - Extraction from APAP

[diddymal]

Is there a way to extract Codeine from the standard paracetemol containing pills in such a way as to get a more pure product? I'm talking >99% purity, I know this isin't feasible with water.

[skips]

Theoretically one could get over 99% purity using water, swims not sure if it has been done but it's theoretically possible, check out the CWE FAQ in drug related chemistry forum. (where swim got this table)

Type | Solubility (31C water)| Solubility (21C water)|
Aspirin 1g / 100 ml 1g / 300ml
Acetaminophen 1g / 70 ml 1g / 150 ml
Codeine 1g / 2.3 ml 1g / 0.7 ml

Says here codeine is more than 100x soluble than acetaminophen at 21C and probably even more so at lower temps, swims not sure exactly how feasible this would be but its worth checking out, it would also be important to take the other inactives/fillers present in pills into account.

PS: Its probably wise to get used to using the swim term even if you are not specifically doing anything illegal or some people will negative rep you.

[g666d]

swim dreamed she once tried extracting apap with acetone 1st, then codeine with water (codeine not soluble in acetone). The acetone worked really well for dissolving pills and even better for filtering, didn't clog filter paper at all.

Swim boiled off acetone afterwards to see huge crystal chunks of APAP form in boiling can.

Swim next tried to hurry the drying of pill dust, now apap free just codeine and filler, but was in too much of a hurry and added water too early. Even after heating water almost to boiling acetone was still present in the liquid.

Swim would like to inform the curious that acetone tastes like shit.

Swim still noticed effects from codeine, even after mistreatment.
Swim says probably about 20 10/500 generic codeine/apap and about 150ml acetone(well excess, afaik) were used.

Swim would think it quite possible to get a pure or close to pure product with only water, vacuum distillation equipment would be handy though. Repeat filtering or filtering with activated charcoal and pressure should yield a fairly clean water, or possibly dissolving in alcohol (swim doesn't know solubilities) before normal coffee filtering. Particulate seems to drop out of volatile solvents a shitload easier. If swiy can get crystals dry then swim imagines washing them with acetone would remove last traces of impurities.

Did you know apparently codeine's solubility goes up in colder water?

[diddymal]

Swim was unaware that codeine solubility increased as water temp dropped, very interesting. Thanks to swims easy access to acetone this seems like a perfect solution to swims problem, a bit more care taken with the acetone filter and a highly desirable product will be procured. Thanks a bunch!

[miggeth]

Is this just to satisfy curiosity or something, because swim can't really see the point. He knows there's a way, but swiy is only going to get a few more percent out of a lot more hassle. Pure product isn't any more effective than extracted product, swim knows this. In fact the extracted product from brand named, expensive tablets is usually more effective than the stuff he gets from his doctor.

[g666d]

swim thinks if one wants to convert cwe into something more interesting then pure product might be preferable. Otherwise swim agrees likely can very similar results with H2O.

swim did acetone experiment partly to see physically how much apap is in cwe and also to see if taste/effects were different when pure codeine.

swim was always worried ingesting cwe's worried about waking up with dead liver. For the ultra paranoid swiy can weigh the yield of apap and compare with original amount.

swiy says don't base tolerance of cwe when judging how much pure codeine to dose on, swim had 210mg of quick release codeine at some point and knocked swim on ass, literally*. On any other opiate inc. stronger ones, swim has been capable of walking. Swim would cwe 250-350mg codeine with only mild results, losses of codeine when cwe must be reasonably high.

*swim says was kinda interesting, swim was playing on computer for ~2hrs after dosing with only mildish effects, then swim stood up and promptly fell over. Swim tried to make it to bathroom to look in mirror but ended up bouncing off walls till she hit the floor. Swim crawled into bath, drank alot of water and kept reminding herself to breathe. After 10mins these extreme effects had subsided, and was back on plain ol codeine plateau.
Swim's personal theory is liver was stockpiling morphine till rush of blood moved it up brain area. Swim thinks light exercise would avoid this. Swim is most likely wrong though

g666d added 8 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

also swim says that bit about codeine solubility going up in cold water, swim just read it in forum on 'net, so probably good idea to double check somehow (chemical data pages all over the place)

[miggeth]

Originally Posted by g666d

swiy says don't base tolerance of cwe when judging how much pure codeine to dose on, swim had 210mg of quick release codeine at some point and knocked swim on ass, literally*. On any other opiate inc. stronger ones, swim has been capable of walking. Swim would cwe 250-350mg codeine with only mild results, losses of codeine when cwe must be reasonably high.

It all depends on technique, and types of tablets, and lots of other things. Personally, swim has perfected his CWE technique over three years and when he compares the effects of 256 mg codeine extracted from 32 tablets, he gets pretty much the same results as from taking 256 mg of pure codeine phosphate.

It's worrying to think opiate virgins are extracting 300 mg expecting a mild high. A successful extraction of that amount would do more than knock them on their ass. He hopes their incompetence will save them.

[g666d]

Originally Posted by miggeth

It all depends on technique, and types of tablets, and lots of other things. Personally, swim has perfected his CWE technique over three years and when he compares the effects of 256 mg codeine extracted from 32 tablets, he gets pretty much the same results as from taking 256 mg of pure codeine phosphate.

It's worrying to think opiate virgins are extracting 300 mg expecting a mild high. A successful extraction of that amount would do more than knock them on their ass. He hopes their incompetence will save them.

it puzzled swim much, especially the sudden onset/exit. Swim said it was not a nice rush like some other opiates give, but did bring slight taste of H/M. Swim is unimpressed with codeine.

Swim based his dose of codeine on previous CWE's which were always slightly lacking. Swim reasoned she was getting ~60% codeine from her cwe's and as she was extracting from 300mg codeine would be about 180mg dose. Swim now see's yeild's must have been worse and previous doses lower.

Swim read LD50 for codeine was as little as ~600mg, but some controversy over this. Quick search says 800mg. Liver is only capable of processing ~400mg/hr(or day?), from memory. Swim isn't sure if all of that turns to morph, either.

swim was always paranoid about apap when cwe-ing and usually let pill crap precipitate, then siphon water off top for filtering. swim usually left 10-30% water in with pill crud which went down toilet.

Swim thinks that with practise, yes one could get quite efficient at this process. Swim congratulates miggeth on gaining this skill.

Swim says it's interesting here it wasn't faulty dosing of CWE that caused minor od or whatever happened but falsly believing swim had any idea how many mgs were in CWE. Swim is glad of experience with prescribed codeine in terms of reference.

[diddymal]

Swim is very experienced in cwe extraction and was merely curious if there was a way to get a more pure product. Also swim normally starts with 450mg worth of codeine tablets to compensate for loss in extraction.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Yeah, you can get a much purer product using clorform.There's a thread on that, UTFSE.

[miggeth]

Yeah 60 % sounds about right for a single filteration.

My parakeet repeats the process three times though, gets around 60 % on the first pass, 80 % by the second, and 90 + % by the third. Each filtration has two stages, once through cotton, to get most of the APAP out quickly, and then again through a fine coffee filter. After all three solutions are combined, the final mix this then filtered yet again through a coffee filter. It takes him about 45 minutes to an hour.

He doesn't really bother with this any more though, just gets it pure from his doctor.

[nevelshaze]

migg does swiy use cotton, like reguler cotton one would use on their face. and this filters apap rlly good? swim has done his first "quick" filtration with paper towels and with cloth, and likes the paper towels more as they filter through alot more clearer. bu is cotton even better and faster? would swim just like kinda clog the end of his funnel with cottton and then pour the mixture over to filter through?

[miggeth]

Swim used a fine weave thin cotton, cut up some boxer shorts, it has to get most of the APAP out so it won't clog the coffee filter and take ages. Cotton is very strong also, so can be squeezed at this stage without breaking. It also has to be smooth so swim could scrape the APAP off after filtering, to dissolve again. Swim didn't use a funnel, just placed the cotton over a beaker. Poured into the cotton, then kind of pulled the sides up to make a ball, then squeeze the hell out of it.

DON'T squeeze the coffee filters, that has to drip through, which won't take long if the cotton stage is done correctly.