Health - If tobacco contains so many toxins..

[Kamuix]

Quick wonder.

If tobacco contains so many other toxins that are associated with most of smokers health problems then wouldn't it make more sence for companies to have to extract the nicotine and put it in perhaps a non-psychoactive material that doesn't contain toxins & easier on lungs ect..

Reputation Comments on this post:

intersting question

[porchy]

To be honest it is probably because a lot of people enjoy the taste of tobacco. A nice Marlboro Red can taste very yummy. It is indeed an interesting topic and I look forward to hearing peoples opinions on this subject.

[sm0kie]

it's easy, nobody cares if you die.
big insurance companies are shareholders of big tobacco companies. sounds paradox but if you consider that youll have to pay an extra fee to your insurance as a smoker it does make sense. its a win-win for the companies.

Insurance-Industry Investments in Tobacco
To the Editor: The Obama administration is
proposing a major overhaul of the U.S. health care
system, and the insurance industry is poised to
play a major role in the process. Insurance firms,
like any business, are driven by profit, and this
fact compromises any health care plan that includes
them.
In case there is any doubt that insurers place
profit above health, consider their investments in
tobacco. The U.S.-based Prudential Financial provides
life insurance and long-term disability coverage
and is also a major owner of tobacco stocks,
with total tobacco holdings of $264.3 million
(Table 1). The U.K.-based Prudential offers life,
health, disability, and long-term care insurance.
Prudential’s stake in tobacco totals $1.38 billion.
Standard Life, which is also based in the United
Kingdom and offers both life and health insur
ance, owns nearly $950 million of tobacco stock.
Canada-based Sun Life, which offers life, health,
disability, and long-term care insurance, owns
just over $1 billion of tobacco stock. Northwestern
Mutual and Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance
Company (MassMutual) both offer life, disability,
and long-term care insurance. MassMutual
owns more than $585 million of tobacco stock,
and Northwestern Mutual’s stake exceeds $235
million. (These figures are accurate as of March
26, 2009, but given the current economic climate,
they are subject to change.)
Although investing in tobacco while selling life
or health insurance may seem self-defeating, insurance
firms have figured out ways to profit
from both. Insurers exclude smokers from coverage
or, more commonly, charge them higher premiums.
Insurers profit — and smokers lose —
twice over.
These facts should discomfit Canadian and
British readers as their countries consider further
privatization of health insurance. For those of us
in the United States, these data are a reminder of
the true priority of the insurance industry, which
is making money, not ensuring health and wellbeing.
These data raise a red flag about the
prospect of opening vast new markets for private
insurers at public expense, as has happened in
our state of Massachusetts, whose recent health
care reform is often cited as a model for national
reform.
Milton Friedman wrote, “Few trends could so
thoroughly undermine the very foundations of our
free society as the acceptance by corporate officials
of a social responsibility other than to make
as much money for their stockholders as possible.”
1 Market incentives favor pursuit of profit
over the public’s well-being. The insurance industry’s
investments in tobacco reinforce Friedman’s
message and mandate caution regarding insurance
firms’ participation in care.

also the tobacco companies add a lot of stuff (like suggar, ammonia or menthol) to make the the smoke taste better or easier to inhale. lots of these additives are also carcinogenic but the tobacco manufacturers dont care for your health.

This is the list of 599 additives in cigarettes submitted in April 1994. It applies, as documented, only to American manufactured cigarettes intended for distribution within the United States by the listed companies.

look for List of additives in cigarettes on wikipedia

[Piano_man]

SWIY is right. However, smoking any plant material is gonna be bad for you. Here in the EU such a product would hardly be made legal as it would be carcinogenic (despite it being less carcinogenic than tobacco). A typical example of irrational behaviour when it comes to drugs.

I suppose it's worth a try, but swim thinks smokeless tobacco products are the way forward.

The problem with nicotine is that it cannot be ingested. Swim has been investigating the various products available and has concluded that the nicotine nasal spray would be the best option for someone wishing to continue using nicotine for the forseeable future. Unfortunately it is only available on prescription as a cessation aid, not as a long term replacement (more irrational behaviour).

Sure, it would take some getting used to. But swim thinks after a short while most users could make the transition and feel comfortable not smoking. Swim knows a lot of users wouldn't want to make this transition, but that doesn't mean the option shouldn't be available to those who are.

[Politicalchalk]

It does lend itself to the "big bad corporation" schtick, but to Swim, a rouge company could really have an advertising edge, esp. with all the pro-green pro-health stuff out these days.

Interestingly, some of the additives to cigarettes are MAO-B inhibitors! Wacky! Does anyone know if adjusting MAO would increase physiological responses to nicotine?

[Greenport]

Do it! Be the first one to break the cycle of smoking this crap and put nicotine on another plant and sell it.

Get some marijuana buds that don't contain THC and drop a specific amount of nicotine on it, and get rich quick scheme

---

EDIT: SwiM did some more research on this topic (actually well swiM happened to just find this) - apparently nicotine isn't even very addicting in its own respect, rather the tobacco also contains MAOIs which alter its psychoactive effects. This effect is said to resemble that of amphetamine - which come to find out nicotine and amphetamine both happen to cause release of dopamine and norepinephrine (and serotonin, to a lesser extent.)

In fact the effect profile almost seems too similar. It's quite ironic if you think about it - that means while basic amphetamines are illegal, we have a completely legal herb that when smoked causes the release of many of the same chemicals that amphetamine does. Legal speed, persay (granted its speed that will give you lung cancer .)

So anyways, by that logic nicotine would not have quite the same effects if it were extracted from the plant - it is one of those natural psychoactive cocktails wherein the compounds themselves may not be that interesting, or less interesting, but put them together and you get a whole host of new effects.

Now I bet that if someone sold a 'herbal smoking product' containing nicotine and an MAOI, it would do very well

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by Greenport

apparently nicotine isn't even very addicting in its own respect, rather the tobacco also contains MAOIs which alter its psychoactive effects.

Could you provide some references for this, Greenport?

[Dr.Evil]

Greenport will not be able to find any references to this, because even though some aspects of nicotine (tobacco in general) pharmacology are right, but doesn't understand the consequences of MAO-Is and DA release in certain neurons.

Yes nicotine does increases several levels of neurotransmitters, but most importantly dopamine. Nicotine binds to the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR) in the CNS many of which are located on dopamine neuron cell bodies. When the DA neuron bodies are activated by nicotine in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) it causes an increase in dopamine in the nucleus accumbens (NAc) which has been repeatedly shown to be one of the major "reward" circuits within the brain and the biggest contributor to the biological side of nicotine addiction.

Also the mention of MAO-I's (enzymes which break down dopamine) just further reinforces nicotines addictive qualities. Monoamine oxidase inhibitors block the break down of DA in these reward circuits, which once again correlates with major addictive qualities. Amphetamines do inhibit MAO-A/B, but this is only 1 of their expected 5 different modes of pharmalogical action.

In fact some studies have shown that nicotine is so addictive, because of a decrease in nAChR sensitivity which in turn causes an up-regualtion of these receptors......Which in combo with the part about the reward circuit.........basically means that chronic nicotine exposure actually increases the sensitvity of the parts of the brain that help cause addiction.

This stuff is from a pharmacology class/textbook......but 60% of it is on wikipedia under nicotine.........do some reading before posting

[Alias: V]

Yes, I've always understood that it was nicotine that caused all pharmacological action in the body, from MAO inhibition to increased levels of endogenous, amphetamine-like chemicals.

That being ended and redirecting us back to the thread, I have seen fake cigarette that vaporize dissolved nicotine (complete with LED glowing tip!) and I personally love the idea, because it's specifically NOT meant to be a cessation tool, yet it is much healthier than breathing monoxide, vaporized ammonia, ect. into your lungs. I don't smoke often enough to really care, and I'm sure smokers wouldn't totally forgo the tasty pleasure stick, but I'm sure any health-conscious smoker would admit that their lungs could use a break.

Just type "electronic cigarette" into your favorite search browser and see what comes up.

[Greenport]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

Could you provide some references for this, Greenport?

Well this is what the wiki on nicotine states:

"Tobacco smoke contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman, norharman, anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. These compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin."

Alongside that, the wiki on amphetamine states:
"Amphetamine is related to drugs such as methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are a group of potent drugs that act by increasing levels of norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine in the brain, inducing euphoria."

It states that several more times in varying ways throughout the article, naturally...

Further down the nicotine page it says:
"Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties. However, only after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine."

They source these references, some of which swiM had access to, some not...

Human monoamine oxidase is inhibited by tobacco smoke: beta-carboline alkaloids act as potent and reversible inhibitors
"Neuropharmacological actions of cigarette smoke: brain monoamine oxidase B (MAO B) inhibition"
Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats
Transient behavioral sensitization to nicotine becomes long-lasting with monoamine oxidases inhibitors
Amphetamine-induced dopamine release in human ventral striatum correlates with euphoria
-----

It's generally a stimulant, which would almost have to have roots in either the norepinephrine or dopamine systems (the same ones amphetamine works upon) and it is extremely addictive like speed/meth is - swiM's always heard even as a kid that smoking is harder to quit than crack. So it seems at least to swiM (who's a non-smoker but has smoked before on rare occasions) that the effects are probably at least somewhat similar, if not just about the same.

Plus at least to swiM, it seems to make sense that the other compounds in tobacco smoke at least play some role in the actual effects.

[Jatelka]

Thanks, Greenport, for the references.

Please upload those papers that you do have full access to, to the archive (rather than linking to other sites), and request the others that you do not have access to here

(PS: I have done one for you )

[Greenport]

Kk

[Stefanman]

Yeah,interesting question,and a simple answer :
they do not care
it just shows how much people do not care,sad...