TEK - Benzo pill/blotter preparation (Easy way to dose Phenazepam)

[Synesthesiac]

Swim has quite a lot of pure phenazepam powder (about as strong as xanax) but finds it hard to use due to the tiny dosage (0.5-2mg) needed. By the time swims measured up his dosage he's probably wasted 5mg on the knife, 10mg on the scales, and generally spilt it all over the place. Not the most productive way to use it each time.

Swims old 0.5mg accuracy scales are broken, and his current scales weigh down to 4mg minium.

So swim either needs an easy method to weigh it up more precisely and put it in pills, or dissolve it and use blotters of some sort. And swims not really up to scratch on how to make blotters or pills. Might need to upgrade to 0.1mg scales too.

So any advise on how best swim could use this stuff? Because eyeballing or continually wasting or guessing dosages is not a good idea with a chem this strong.

Cheers.

[Stimulants]

Please quantify "quite a lot".

Solubility profile of each benzodiazepine is different. There is little information available on phenazepam and SWIM doesn't know if the solubility profiles are comparable to that of alprazolam.


SWIM suspects for high dilution application, like 1mg/1ml. Drinking grade 90% alcohol is fine for direct consumption. isopropyl alcohol should not be harmful at 1ml to 2ml dosage.

Another direct consumption safe sovlent is propylene glycol.
DO NOT use ETHYLENE glycol.

Methanol(with no non-volatile additives) is fine for volumetric preparation, however it should be allowed to evaporate completely before use.

So, if it's 1,000mg of pure substance, the preferred preparation would be to add about 1/2 liter of 40-50C propylene glycol and allow to dissolve completely. Add propylene glycol to make about 1.0L.

For high concentration preparation (i.e. 1mg/0.05ml or one drop), the solute needs to be highly soluble in solvent. For alprazolam, an example of such a solvent is chloroform. SWIM has no idea about phenazepam.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good input of information, answered the OP well
	thank you stimulants a welth of knowledge as always

[Synesthesiac]

Thanks for the info. Swim will be trying to see what liquid phenazepam is best soluble in the in the coming days, I expect (like you said) either isopropyl alcohol or methanol could do the job, but will have a look into some others first to see what the industry uses.

Dissolving its only the first hurdle for swim really. When its dissolved he knows that you have x number of phenazpam per x ml's but where to go from here to create the pills or blotters? Are there blotter/pill making kits you can buy to make this step easier?

[Bajeda]

Why would swiy want to make pills or blotters (especially blotters) in such quantities? It would probably work better to measure out a few doses at a time and perhaps put the powder in gel caps, and store the rest together properly to limit degradation. If this is indeed a lifetime supply, swiy wouldn't want it to diminish in quality would he?

If swiy got the 0.1mg scale as he mentioned (plus one of those tiny spoons) and got more practice with weighing out the powder he should soon be able to measure out doses with little to no waste, plus he can be more flexible with dosing. This seems safer than making pills or blotter, where there is a risk of having varying amounts in each one which could be quite dangerous. Swiy has a supply that should last at least half a decade (assuming he uses it consistently without breaks), so why go to all this trouble when he can develop some useful measuring skills instead?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good advise for swiy and answers the questions in the OP

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

If swiy got the 0.1mg scale as he mentioned (plus one of those tiny spoons) and got more practice with weighing out the powder he should soon be able to measure out doses with little to no waste, plus he can be more flexible with dosing. This seems safer than making pills or blotter, where there is a risk of having varying amounts in each one which could be quite dangerous. Swiy has a supply that should last at least half a decade (assuming he uses it consistently without breaks), so why go to all this trouble when he can develop some useful measuring skills instead?

Yeah seems sensible. And swims not useing them continusouly, doesn't want ot get addicted to them, so he's gonna be saving them for special occasions after using stims to relax and avoid stimulant parnoia. Will have to upgrade swims scales, but 0.1mg's aren't cheap. But it will work out as good investment in the long run I suppose.

[Stimulants]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Why would swiy want to make pills or blotters (especially blotters) in such quantities?

Same thought, considering SWITS stated it was for his personal consumption. SWIM can't get why SWITS has FOUR GRAMS of the stuff and wants to make a batch of blotters or pills to the extent of wanting a pill making kit with no intent to distribute.

SWIM still thinks 0.25mg/ml to 1.0mg/ml propylene glycol preparation is still the best method as it could be dosed like a cough syrup using a simple measuring spoon or the like. 1 teaspoon x 0.25mg/ml preparation = 1.25mg. PG is a safe to consume and it's even a food additive. It's not meant to be drank like a beverage, but 1ml is fine. It's great for personal consumption, easy to dose accurately, yet makes it unattractive and unsuitable for distribution.

As for 100ug 0.1mg scale, there's no such thing as a good unit that isn't the size of a small laser printer. It absolutely needs the glass shielding enclosure to avoid air disturbance and the weight of the physical structure itself to avoid vibration errors.

Sartorius GD503/603 is good, and it is one of the cheaper ones, $1,000 to $1,200 with proper calibration weight.

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by Stimulants

SWIM still thinks 0.25mg/ml to 1.0mg/ml propylene glycol preparation is still the best method as it could be dosed like a cough syrup using a simple measuring spoon or the like. 1 teaspoon x 0.25mg/ml preparation = 1.25mg. PG is a safe to consume and it's even a food additive. It's not meant to be drank like a beverage, but 1ml is fine. It's great for personal consumption, easy to dose accurately, yet makes it unattractive and unsuitable for distribution.

Cool. Swims taken on the above advise and will be investing in some (bloody expensive!) scales instead for doing this. I think the tempataion of having so many benzo pills easily available would probably lead to trouble after a while. Plus the scales will be handy for weighing up other sub-milligram active research chems... but... swim is still curious about how the volumetric method works anyway.

Being a noob to most volumetric ways to measure chems, the one main issue that I can see is that even when the substance is dissolved, wouldn't the concentration of phenazepam vary for different areas of the solution? ie, it may concentrate at the bottom or top, or EM forces could hold clumps of it together on molecular levels. This could lead to some pills/blotters getting far times the amount of other areas (as Baeja pointed out is a concern) which could really spell major trouble. Theres a hell of a difference between taking a pill which has had 1mg in it and one which accidentally has 10mg.

The first being nice sedation, the second probably a coma.

Or are there ways to ensure this doesn't happen, or test if it has happened?

[Stimulants]

Originally Posted by Synesthesiac

Being a noob to most volumetric ways to measure chems, the one main issue that I can see is that even when the substance is dissolved, wouldn't the concentration of phenazepam vary for different areas of the solution? ie, it may concentrate at the bottom or top, or EM forces could hold clumps of it together on molecular levels.

It can happen if frozen. i.e. if sugar water is frozen, the core of ice will contain less concentration. This method is used in silicon purification. But propylene glycol won't freeze easily.

This could lead to some pills/blotters getting far times the amount of other areas (as Baeja pointed out is a concern) which could really spell major trouble. Theres a hell of a difference between taking a pill which has had 1mg in it and one which accidentally has 10mg.

The first being nice sedation, the second probably a coma.

Or are there ways to ensure this doesn't happen, or test if it has happened?

This is why the solution should not be made anywhere near saturation concentration. 1mg/1ml is close to 1:1000 dilution so, this shouldn't be an issue. If one prepares a solution of say 20mg/ml, as in the case of making one drop = one dose, then SWIY better make sure the solute is highly soluble in the solvent.

[farmpkm]

From personal experience -- in the last hour, actually -- phenazepam dissolves in 100proof vodka (%50 ethanol).

I dumped 100mg of phenazepam into 100ml of the vodka and stirred. Very little of it dissolved.

Threw it in the microwave for 30 seconds and stirred for several minutes. About half was now dissolved.

Gave it another 30 seconds in the microwave and another ~5 minutes of stirring and it was %100 dissolved.

Has been sitting for about an hour and none has precipitated; I don't expect that any of it will precipitate.

Very glad I didn't dump it into isopropyl like I was about to, as this mixture is much more palatable.

farmpkm added 2 Minutes and 41 Seconds later...

Oh, forgot to mention that after the ~1 minute in the microwave I only had about 80ml of liquid rather than 100ml. So this is 1.25mg/ml rather than 1.0mg/ml.... potentially a significant difference.

The moral of the story is to measure afterwards too.

farmpkm added 22 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

... unless of course I simply lost 20mg when the 20ml evaporated (a very real possibility). Either way, its between 1.00 and 1.25mg / ml, and with a ~1-2 mg dosage the uncertainty isn't a huge concert.

farmpkm added 5 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

ALSO... to the Rep'er.... "Self-incrimination is the act of accusing oneself of a crime for which a person can then be prosecuted." There is no crime under which I may be prosecuted, so either find a better term in your rules than self-incrimination or remove the note about me self-incriminating. I played by your rules.

farmpkm added 692 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Someone who is me thinks that you people are fucking morons.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Read the rules. Self incrimination is not allowed.
	Sorry but you are not allowed to say you used any substance in the first person whether legal or not as laws vary so muc...
	SWIY shouldn't have skipped through the rules presented when ze registere.

[Bajeda]

It may be less tempting to take phenazepam continuously (or start redosing when not necessary) if it isn't conveniently available in pill form, just as it is easier to smoke less tobacco when rolling one's own cigs rather than simply whipping them out of a packet.

[Synesthesiac]

Yeah good idea. Anyone recommend some 0.1mg scales with a good warranty? Are we allowed to link to them here?

[Bajeda]

Take a look 'round this thread.