Health - GBL problems

[artovey]

I know you will chastise me Mr.G.

Swim has been using GBL for about 8months now... as has swim's fiancé. Swim takes gbl in capsules so it is easy to know what the dosage is - rarely is over 1.5ml at a time, and doesn't have any effects of drinking and doing GBL. Swim and his fiancé both suffer from anxiety when out of our comfort zone - ie home... Swim is going into their 3rd year of university. While swim has tried everything under the sun, alcohol was swim's anxiety reliever of choice and of course it worked with mixed results. GBL was/is a blessing but an evil one at that. Swim can do all the things he could never do - go out any day/night and by this swim means the supermarket, socialize, a gig, a class, a presentation... and be able to deal with it calmly. The evil part is that swim has to quit at a certain time at night and drink in order to sleep properly after maybe one week of use, swim endure twitches and severe irritability/anxiety when swim quits (in order to stop 24/7 dosing) Swim has tried and doesn't believe in tapering as your body craves and tapers only so much before you get the same effects of cold turkey. Its a shit night and a load of wine but stopping cold works for swim. Trouble is swim's anxiety is and has been a life long problem and this is what works best. Swim has tried the GHB synth 3 times - each time makes a substance that doesn't ease anxiety and makes them both puke. Swim followed it to the T - Mr.G with toxic feeling results. At this moment swim is doing cold turkey and it feels like hell but as long as swim drinks and sleeps he is fine in the morning.

Swim's fiancé on the other hand has been having episodes. They usually consist of her tossing and turning on the bed for hours mumbling and passing in and out of sleep acting very weird and scary. They have been coming at about once a week. Swim is trying to get her to stop taking but she is too scared to do cold turkey and knows she will just start again... so she withdraws slowly.... then never quits. Swim and his fiancé are in a foreign country on exchange so a NA program is not really possible. Swim is worried about these almost/actual fits... she takes 2ml every 2hrs... has anyone else seen this and/or has any advice?

[runitsthepolice]

Using G to combat social anxiety seems to be the number one cause of addiction. If swiy and fiance wish to stop (and they should) there are a bunch of threads on detox methods that have proven to work. Look them up. If swiy abstains from G for a week the withdrawal symptoms will subside.

[MrG]

*sigh*, ok I guess yet another rant about the dangers of GBL is not going to help much here.

As for the synth, I cannot accept that it was followed "to the T" and yet still ended up wrong. Feel free to pm me about the "theoretical" results SWIY experienced.

Going on from another post from SystemDoll where Neurontin (Gabapentin) is discussed as a good sleep aid, I can confirm that this is, indeed, true.

It is usually dosed at 3/400mg 3/4 times a day for a number of conditions but it would appear that a single 1200mg dose, taken an hour before bedtime, will give a solid night of sleep where, if one needs to attend to anything during the night (toilet, kids, etc.) it can be dealt with although there is still a degree of "foggy" thinking during this time.

Many people report very vivid/strange dreams, yet during these dreams, no matter what their content, there is no fear or anxiety which normally accompanies upsetting imagery. This means that the user in then able to experience the proper sleep cycle, especially the deep, reparative, stages.

One point to note is that a *very* "mellow" sensation is usually felt the next day, particularly upon waking and may take a number of hours to clear fully.

It isn't likely to be available OTC unfortunately, but I would be very interested to hear if any users who are suffering from GBL withdrawal issues (i.e. addiction) and who have taken a 1200mg sleep dose of Gabapentin in order to avoid dosing with GBL for sleep, could report on their experiences.

As for SWIY and his significant other, Neurontin (Gabapentin) is an anti-seizure medication and would likely help considerably in their desire to quit their GBL habit.

If they are in a properly foreign country (not UK or US) it may be that a friendly pharmacist could be convinced that SWIY's S.O. has mislaid her anti-seizure meds and a request for a pack of Neurontin 400mg might be acceptable on the basis that it is not viewed as a recreational drug of abuse and has been demonstrated to be particularly safe at even stupid doses.

I would not recommend its use as 24/7, as it is normally prescribed, as this can quickly lead to tolerance. Plus it is jokingly referred to as "morontin" due to the fact that people who are dosing it repeatedly during the day can appear to be very "slow".

One shot sleep aid fine, chronic use definitely not!

[runitsthepolice]

Isn't gabapentin unscheduled in the united states, and therefore legal to order over the internet or whatnot without a prescription?

[artovey]

Thanks for the help Mr.G, I know you have heard this story a thousand times. Swim was not unaware of the crap swim was getting himself into and has lurked this forum for a while. Minus the 24/7 use this could be a perfect anti-anxiety for swim. Swim just found Neurontin online and is going to give that a try for both swim and his fiancé's withdrawals... then decide on what to do next.

[MrG]

Well, what comes next is trying to figure out exactly why SWIY and his S.O. have such crushing social anxiety.

[artovey]

Originally Posted by MrG

Well, what comes next is trying to figure out exactly why SWIY and his S.O. have such crushing social anxiety.

to fix it at the root would of course be the best thing. the better half is in therapy and has been for almost a decade. while swim does not deny the benefits of this there are many reasons why this is not viable.

artovey added 1 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by malsat

Alternatively, pregabalin (which has a similar MoA to gabapentin but is quite a bit stronger) is licensed for the treatment of Generalised Anxiety Disorder and/or Social Anxiety Disorder in some countries so it may be possible to get it scripted from a doc.

swim has found a cheap source of pregabalin online and has used it to help with withdrawal before... swim has never really tried it as a anti-anxiety regularly though so will give it a try.

[malsat]

Alternatively, pregabalin (which has a similar MoA to gabapentin but is quite a bit stronger) is licensed for the treatment of Generalised Anxiety Disorder and/or Social Anxiety Disorder in some countries so it may be possible to get it scripted from a doc.

[malsat]

Just beware that it can cause withdrawals, just like gabapentin. I believe I've read that the WD syndrome is very similar to G so I wouldn't make a daily regimen of it were I to use it for anxiety.

[MrG]

Absolutely, the suggestion is that it be used solely in one 1200mg dose at bedtime.

*not* as a maintenance dose during the day.

As for the origins of anxiety, experience is most often pointing to Toxic Stress in Childhood. Don't think your childhood qualifies for it? How about the fact that, according to psychiatric reference books of the seventies and eighties, Incest was not only harmless, but it was, in fact, beneficial to a young child! I shit you not.

This type of "justified" child rape has led to generations of dysfunctional and damaged minds suffering from CPTSD (Complex PTSD). Look it up.

[runitsthepolice]

Correction to my earlier post: Gabapentin is unscheduled in the united states so it is legal to possess for anyone. Its sales are regulated by the FDA however so a pharmacy won't just sell it to people without a prescription. It can be 'had' in the grey market.

[artovey]

Thanks for all of your help.... so here is the 'plan':

swim is drinking tonight with some nice Czech 'Becherovka' taking only 1-2 pills over the next 12+hrs in order to do a shitty overnight withdrawal, swim also has an ambien. So far after 5hrs he feels like his skin is a chalk board being scraped by razorblades... but swim can cope... just watched 'dragged me to hell' and watching a horror film during a withdraw is like going on a rollercoaster strapped to the front train. almost fun but not really... at all... but it builds balls.

swim has ordered some Pregabalin and Neurontin, both should arrive beginning of next week to help the SO withdraw and help swim stay off the GBL. swim knows that this isn't a good permanent solution - from all of your helpful posts - and swim also realises that this isn't really going to keep him off of some form of anxiety control for good... so swim is going to give the GHB synthesis another good go. swim has got brand new tools and has read and reread all the synthesis posts. from what swim hears GHB is a little more manageable.

Mr. G., swim's trauma wasn't experienced until the age of 15... and while he thinks he should have been old enough to deal with that crap - some choices of his over the years have led him to believe that has not been the case. Although swim has to say... it wasn't child rape (thank fuck)... but it was the family unit where it all went pear shaped.

The SO on the other hand has a pretty classic case of daddy being gone at an early age and a (maybe) not so classic case of mother being obsessive, destructive and controlling in every aspect of her life. she is scared when alone and hates being outside of the house.

swim totally believes the hypothesis that toxic stress disorder is a huge source to many adult life disorders which in turn results in inflicting similar harm on their children - the vicious circle of trauma. almost every fucked friend or girlfriend has been a testament to that i.e. most addicts swim has known. Mr G should download some MP3's of Loveline... the callers are very sadly repetitive.

[Systemdoll]

Originally Posted by artovey

swim totally believes the hypothesis that toxic stress disorder is a huge source to many adult life disorders which in turn results in inflicting similar harm on their children - the vicious circle of trauma. almost every fucked friend or girlfriend has been a testament to that i.e. most addicts swim has known. Mr G should download some MP3's of Loveline... the callers are very sadly repetitive.

Swim don't believe in that. Swim think that if someone is able to talk and take a little distance (and humour) with his trauma, that one had very poor causes in the way that you are living your life has an adult.

[artovey]

Originally Posted by Systemdoll

Swim don't believe in that. Swim think that if someone is able to talk and take a little distance (and humour) with his trauma, that one had very poor causes in the way that you are living your life has an adult.

ok as long as the person is somewhat self aware I agree. but it is silly to discount this totally as it does seem to be the rule

[Synesthesiac]

I found large doses of vitamin C (1 gram, or about five big oranges) helped with the dopamine rebound in the morning from GBL, and I was able to get through it without that uncomfortable feeling sometimes felt. But for actual withdrawlas... I couldn't say. It might help and little though, and you've got nothing to loose by stocking up on all the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

As a last resort a breif but high impact benzo regimen (diazepam) could be used, but you'd likely have to go to the doctor explain your situation and get them from him. And then you'd have to be extremely careful you dont just get addicted to them instead; they would have to be just very short term treatment to get you through the withdrawals and nothing more.

[Codehead]

If you want to take drugs for social anxiety then take weed if that helps, or just benzos they will help for sure. But you should try some psychedelics to see if you can work your way out of your twisted thought pattern that causes your anxiety. Good luck.

[artovey]

Day 2.
swim woke up feeling not tooooo bad - actually got 7hrs of good sleep. after being awake an hour things get a little worse.. shakes, brain foggy, no will or energy and a bit scared of people in general. swim had a beer and OD'd on some Vit C then went out to pay the rent now back home with another bottle of liquor.

Codehead - weed has always made swim more anxious. psychedelics on the other hand swim believes may help him deal with shit.

[Synesthesiac]

How much vit C u take? Also bear in mind that a lot of the vitamin supplements add in fillers and extra things with the vits, so you shouldn't do too many of them. Nothing too serious, just not the best idea to do them in ridiulous amounts every day of the week. Thats why I find it better to gullup down large amounts of pure squeezed high vitamin C content orange juice with no added things, or just eat loads of oranges. Some supplement pills are better than other, some only contain extra sugar, but some others add sweeteners and flavorings which aren't ideal if used in excess for large periods of time.

Synesthesiac added 1 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

And yeah, weed makes me paranoid too. Low dosages (100mg) of pure MDMA would be the only thing that helped my social anxiety for the better, as it helped me bond and open up to people like I never had been able to before, which stayed with me forever.

[artovey]

400mg. swim cooks and eats plenty of fresh foods so he is not too worried about being vit deficient.
at the moment swim feels almost ok. not up to the task of doing anything but less anxious and definitely less uncomfortable.

swimette is the one swim is worried about. this will take a while.

[Synesthesiac]

cool that'll be fine. I just find that lots vit C helps for some reason. And send my best wishes to swimette

Dont forget that there are other ways, getting some benzo's to help relax on the withdrawal, or slowly tapering off would be another option.