Heroin withdrawal questions

[pokergod0588]

i've done heroin in the past, but was never addicted so i cant say from a personal stand point on how it is, but i know my cousin stopped cold-turkey and his dad (who was always totally against drugs) heard from a friend that pot and valium takes a big part of the edge off of withdrawal... so my uncle and cousin sat in his bedroom for about a week smoking grass, about 2 ounces, now dont get me wrong, he said it was the worst time of his life and that he was in pain the whole time, my uncle even almost went to buy him a bag to relieve the pain, he believes it woulda been much worse without the pot thought, just a suggestion

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[miffy]

Yeah, I've had mates tell me that if they've never had a habit and done
it once or twice, that it's just a comedown the next day or so. bowlingforcindy</span>'s
right, though - once you've had a habit, your body remembers it. You
can be clean for years, then have just a couple of hits and be right
back in the thick of it - habits come sneaking back in if you leave the
door open at all. </span><br style="font-weight: normal;">
<br style="font-weight: normal;">
Me, I'm hoping to start the subutex
on the 12th (fingers crossed) if the various services I have to go
through can get it together. Crazily, they don't seem to cater for
people who have jobs - I'll have to pick up the subutex daily, from a
specific pharmacy, which is open only 9-5. As I work out of town, the
earliest I can get back is 1845 - so it looks as though I'm going to
have to ask my doctor to sign me off for 3 weeks. All well and good, if
he agrees to, but my boss already isn't happy about the about of time
off I've been having - habits, when they get bad, tend to interfere
with work. And I've been taking time off to go to various medicals etc
for the subbie script. We'll have to see. . . hopefully, I come out of
this both clean & still having a job. Fingers crossed. . .</span></span>

[bowlingforcindy]

hows it goin anyway miffy, still trying i hope, remember everyone on this forum supports you, friends etc.

how longs it take to get addicted miffy, if you do it 3 days on end, are you in trouble then?

[bowlingforcindy]

whats your job miffy, do you work while high on h . does your boss know.

[shotgun]

Good luck miffy...



Dont give in to temptation, you sound like a smart guy and i would love to hear about your success when it happens...



Be strong, if you want to be clean you owe it to yourself to keep
trying. Dont go through all this pain for nothing... You may feel like
crap, but you have to remember that the more H you do, the longer you
will suffer. 1 small hit may make you feel better for a few hours, but
you'll be sick for an extra day or 3. Dont torture yourself.



And try to do some fun things (not drugs or anything/anywhere you may
find them) to get your mind off it... Maybe start a sport or something
(i'd recommend a martial art. will be good for your health and
discipline... karate helped me a lot). Make your life enjoyable without
the gear.





Kill the monkey.

[Ramm]

Hey Miffy,


Hope you are gettin past the bottom -I injected for almost 3 years off and on (chipped). It was hard to give up that buzz - you know like the first 30 seconds of it but I did it Cold Turkey. I fell off the wagon a cuple of dozen times but finally quit - it was destroying me and I hated the depression. I still love to get highwith alcohol and valium.


I layed in bed for approx 3 days, took flu medicine and that was my method. Everyone is different I think you must really want to quit and stay away from the junkies you hang with.When you stay in that environment its impossible to quit. You'll get there and tell all those pencil pushers they better stay outta your way!!

[miffy]

'Ello all. . .



Okay, an update :



I managed to stick out the 21-day subutex detox thing. . . wasn't as
painless as I'd remembered, but could have been worse. I could walk
about by day 4, which certainly wouldn't have happened without the
subutex.



However, I relapsed a bit at the end of the 21 days . . . don't
know why, really - I think I was just sick of feeling sick. Went back
on the brown for about 5 days, and realised I'd pretty much got a habit
again, and that I had to stop before I no longer could . . . so, got
out of town for a week, stayed in a van with some hippy mates and
discovered that ketamine makes the withdrawal easier (until the next
day, anyway).



Came back from that on Monday, and promptly scored. Hopeless, why do I do it!?



However, I managed to keep it as a one-off, and didn't do it again the
next day. Today, Friday, I can still feel it in my system - you know
that nasty sorta-rushing feeling, like you've taken a couple of bad
ecstasies? Yep, it's still going on, but I'm hoping it'll be a little
better each day. All I need to do now is stay off the gear!



I'm supposed to be starting naltrexone in about 10 days, so if I can stay off until then, that'll help.



In answer to bowlingforcindy</span>, it took me
about 2 months to get addicted, back when I was smoking. In fact, I'd
be on it for a month, not be able to score, and be surprised when I
never got sick. Then one day, after doing it every day for a couple of
months, I couldn't score and I did get sick. . . not a very nice
surprise.



Re. my job, I can't say exactly, 'cos I work for a website & it doesn't seem very smart to post it up here! But - my boss
is pretty understanding. About a month ago, I decided I'd had enough
making excuses, so I just told the truth - "Yup, I'm a junkie, and I'm
not going to be at work this month, 'cos I'll be really sick. Okay?".
Was interested to see if I'd get sacked or not - and so far, I haven't.




This has the additional advantage that if I come into work off my head, I'll lose me job - so I have to try not to. . .



Hope life's treatin y'all schweet!


Edited by: miffy

[miffy]

Another update : On methodone again(!). . . illicitly obtained, this
time, as there's no chance of treatment services seeing me within 3
months of my last relapse.



Have come down from about 45ml to 7.5 ml in about 2 weeks . . . which
was pretty brutal. But it's the last few ml that are really starting to
hurt.



Ho hum. Fingers crossed. . .

[Be-Bop]

Shit, i just lost a long post to ya Miffy (don't know how? It came up with 'reformat post'- i pressed cancel & poof, gone- oh well) But here is the bones of it (again)......I have kicked many, many times tho' i am currently an 'active' user, but i just wanted to give you some words of advice & encouragement..when i was younger i used to take the 'get as fucked up as possble to try & sleep' thing (not being able to sleep is the thing that always really fucks with me!)..alcohol (lots), benzos, pot, not eating, going out & picking up strange women, getting into weird situations etc etc..but i have realised that doing this just weakens you even more physically & (more importantly) mentally...there is NO way around the fact that you are going to have to suffer, & the more you can accept this fact, the easier it seems to be...the fact is that you have disrupted your brains production of endorphins & you are going to have to wait for them to come back 'on-line'. The best thing you can do is make sure that you are in a comfortable place with no extra pressures on you, make sure you eat (even if you don't want to..), try & go for a walk every day, & start excercising when you feel able (swimming..i've found the gym REALLY good in getting your endorphins pumping..), take care of yourself, shower etc. Most importantly, the longer you have ANY kind of opiate in your system the longer it will drag on for..this includes methadone, subutex, naltrexone (i know it is an antagonist, still..), any of the OTC suggestions..as isaid, you are going to feel like shit & not sleep & all of that but so much of the rationale of using is the avoidance of pain, but this time you have to stop running, turn around & face the the storm & let it wash over you& just wait for the rain to subside (if you know what i mean?)..there is no way around it, trying will only lead you down blind alleys..concentrate on what you want from your life when you are clean, every day that you don't use is a day closer to being ABSOLUTELY clean, but it's going to take time! Even tho' i think a lot of the 12 step shit is shit, that doesn't mean probably the best people to have around you are those that have been there but are now DOING good stuff that is denied to you when you are using...try & find a good meeting that is not too full of all the RIGHTEOUS 12 step people & 12 step speak, but it can be really inspiring to be reminded that it is possble!! & having people that UNDERSTAND! The last two things i wanted to say were, be careful with 'slipping up' if you have been clean even for just a week, i have known SOOO(well, probably 6-8)many people who have been clean a short time, get drunk, think "Fuck it.." go out & score & 10 minutes later are DEAD!!!! But more importantly, remember that there are people all over the world that are wishing you the best & that really want you to succeed, you will be suprised how quickly good things start to happen, & the support you will get from quarters that you didn't expect!...anyway..GOOD LUCK!!! Be-Bop, &gt; !!!!!

[Be-Bop]

Some stuff i forgot to add, looking through the thread again..shit so much that you say is so familiar..looking for that 'magic bullet', going away & then scoring as soon as you get back to that Dirty ol' Town..there's something about coming back into town..mmmmm, that excitement that you don't even dare admit to yourself....(i tell myself i will not go/ even as i arrive there- BIG BLACK) All this stuff about other drugs to take the edge off..IT WON'T WORK..think about it..if you are still stuck in your groove of 'taking' something to 'feel' better, in the end it is inevitable that you are going to use..why..coz gear is so much fucking better! .....Methodone is just plain fucking evil- i can't believe they prescribe it when it is so much worse than heroin! Same with the 'going away' thing (if it is only for a short time) i think it just reinforces the idea that away from the city is 'NO DRUGS', & conversely reurning to the city is 'DRUGS'. As much as this is a thing you mightn't want to hear- have you thought that you might really need to completely change your life? I mean i think it can be hard to not use when everything else in your life is the same..same flat, same job, same feelings to contend with etc etc But at the same time, you can look at this as a comforting thought, you are not stuck in your life..you could always go into a long term rehab, pack up& go overseas ( shit i knew a girl who got on a plane to Canada with a 180mg methadone habit, plus she was using two grammes+ of pure a day- i kid you not, & she made it, & stayed drug free!)..Don't feel trapped, you are not!! You DO have options..ones that you may never of thought of! The other thing i forgot to say is in reference to the comments you made re. 'Why do i go back when i have got off?" Two things, your addiction is clever & patient...when you are on methadone/subutex you might not be shooting up, but your body is still getting it's opiates, so as far as its concerned things might be a bit tight, but things are still 'normal', & when you finally take that last dose your brain will come up with every slippery reason to get you to take up that needle again, & it is very patient....the other thing is that i have often thought that 'getting off' is kinda the easy part coz you still have opiates as the main thing in your life (even tho' it is in a negative sense), the difficult part comes once the pain starts to lift & you don't have opiates to 'obsess' over anymore-What's going to fill that hole? This is where you have to think about WHAT YOU WANT? Just wanting the absence of heroin won't work- there has to be something that you want to replace it with! Not a different drug, not going out & getting fucked up drunk, but some passion that lies unexpressed within you- your obviously a smart guy, is working on a web site what you want to do? What's your dream? Fuck off the drugs & LIVE IT!!! Fucking go for it! I know every person here would love you to do it! love from me!

[apsaras6]

suboxone

[miffy]

Thanks to Be-Bop for the words of wisdom - I've found most of these
things by trial and error (shame I didn't have someone to tell me that
years ago!).



It's going okay at the moment - I've not used for about 10 days, and
that was the only time in the past 3 weeks. So that's not bad - for me,
certainly. I've been doing a detox (not thru a clinic, tho) using
Physeptone pills x5mg and DFs - have come down from about 60mg
Physeptone daily to about 5mg. The DFs I was doing by the handful, and
am now on one or two a day. And - most importantly - I'm feelling
pretty positive about staying off.



Trouble is, it's too easy to score, in the city in which I live.



Be-Bop's absolutely right in saying that it's crucial to make
everything as comfortable as possible for oneself during a detox. This
has been a bit tricky for me, as I live in a truck, and it's getting
pretty cold here. I'm going to indulge myself and get a room in a house
for the winter - I've used before just to keep myself warm (or feeling
warm, anyway) and I don't wanna be doing that.



The other point - about having to give up opiates sooner or later
anyway - is so true - I've been putting it off a bit with this rapid
detox. Trouble is - I've messed up so much this past year that I can't
just take a week off work and be sick - I've got to be well enough to
at least turn up every day - even if I don't do anything (crazy innit).
Anyway - I'm down to 5mg today, then it's 2.5 tomorrow. Then nothing -
and I'll see how it goes. I'm feeling okay with it, though - looking
forward.

[Be-Bop]

Fuck...so glad to hear from you Miffy!! Have been thinking of you regular during the last two weeks, & wondering how things were going for you?


It's SO TOUGH, all the stuff that you are attempting...& all your going through....but remember, failure is only sure when you give up!!! DON'T be down on yourself any time that you 'slip', if addiction wasn't a psychology CHARACTERIZED BY RELAPSE it wouldn't be such a problem for so many of us!!!! Just keep on heading in the right direction..even when it seems hard to see the 'logic', or 'goal' in your journey...don't castigate yourself for having an addiction..I know it has taken me a lot of years to get over seeing myself as a 'failure' for using. And i don't even mean consciously..i have always been a very loud advocate for USER'S RIGHTS etc...but i think that may have even been driven by a sneaking suspicion that i was 'weak'..a weakness demonstrated by my habit...i no longer think like this..


I don't know why some of us end up with this DEMON relationship, i don't understand why???...I can't offer any comprehensive explanation...but for no reason that i can verbalize...I KNOW IN MY SOUL THAT WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE, & NO LESS THAN ANYONE ELSE! (some junkies, i know, make an absolute lie of all of the above..but still...)


I just hope so much that you can be kind to youself Miffy...it's obvious that you are a smart & sensitive person,& i hope that you can find whatever the secret code is that will unlock that PASSION that can help you make sense of the journey that you are on...


FUCKING "GOOD LUCK BUDDY!!!", & feel free to PM me whenever you like...i like a chat..


Be-Bop.


PS. glad to hear that your ok....

[cavalera]

i think you just need a hug, and maybe a pint

[Be-Bop]

INDEED Cavalera...since your closer, give Miffy a hug from me too!!! & a pint..i'll have to post you the money..it's in the mail, honest!

[cavalera]

***HUG!***

[wovotom]

gud luk miffy,tho ive never used myself i've seen alot of the effects of a junk habit as a m8 of mine deals the shite!!!!DONT use other drugs to substitute,i had a bad(tho its not comparison)dope & alcohol problem,smoking between £50-100 of bud in a day.their are people who can help & no matter how bad you feel rememberin about a month you will have the money to get a place & treat yourslef & not have those painful bruises around ya veins.


anyway gud luk bud

[apsaras6]

I am on suboxone not subutex and I think along with many of my freinds that it is the wonder drug. I have no craving for dope at all. I am clear headed and suffer no depression. My Dr. said many people are on it indefianately, just like someone taking an antidepresant for depression or any other psychiatric condition. It is very new in the states I first tried it two years ago and it didn't help, I also started on the subutex which is a straight opiate. The suboxone is 8mg.5and a half mg of buprenorphine and 2 and a half of naltroxone (I am pretty sure). I am prescribed 2 8mg a day but usually only take 1 (sell the other ones) it is hard to get an appointment with the very few Drs. permitted to prescribe them they are only allowed a 30 person patient load. I think they need to change a few of the rules governing this. As for the withdrawl - none to moderate for a day maybe two everyone is different. Look into it, it has saved my life and my boyfriends.

[Be-Bop]

I don't want to burst anyone's 'bubble'...but if you re on any sort of 'substitute' therapy...whether it's Methadone, or Buprenorphine (which i agree is a lot more 'clear',& doesn't make you feel as if you are on any sort of Opiate), or even an Opiate antagonist, such as Naltrexone..you are still 'dealing' with the fact that you have disrupted your Endorphin system by continueing to alter it!! As far as your body is concerned your still 'getting it, & getting it steady' (thanks Uncle Bill)...if there truely is no withdrawal, or, 'none to moderate', WHY do some people stay on it indefinately? Coz they enjoy the daily trips to the Chemist? Try stopping, & see what happens? Most of the people i have known, & there has been A LOT, usually end up using again within a week-month of stopping whatever program they are on, Methadone, Buprenorphine, Naltrexone...the only way to really stop using Opiates..if that's what you really want to do..is to STOP USING OPIATES, & let your brain, & your endorphin system slowly recover it's equilibriam...& that takes TIME!!!


THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A QUICK 'FIX'


Be-Bop.

[miffy]

Thanks to all - it's really good to get some encouragement.



I came off the medication 5 days ago and relapsed - once - on Saturday,
2 days ago. I'm really feeling the results of that, today, though - I
don't seem to have the fortitude to go on being sick any longer. I'm
afraid I'm prolly going to finish work and try to borrow some money off
a friend, score. Short term solution, I know, but I hate feeling like
this. It probably won't happen anyway - I've already blown out most of
my mates. I just can't bear the idea of another few days sick in the
back of a damp van. Got to sort this out!



I'll get there. In the end.

[wovotom]

DONT score!!!!really just sit it out,if somebodies willing to lend you money im sure their willing to give you a place to stay to at least have a comfortable surrounding to deal with the withdrawal's. serious coming on & coming off are still using,you are back to sqaure one now buddy dont stay there,because nobody has said it yet but how much longer do you think your body can take your addiction!!!!if you dont stop you will die or end up a mere shadow of your former self & keep ypur job it gives you stability.


come on bud you wana qiut?????then do it,i've known heavy users who've managed to qiut after using copious amounts for years!!!dont give up when your sooo close bud

[miffy]

Just in case anyone's interested - the whole cycle's just going round
again. . . I've been off for about a week on Psyceptone, this time,
after reaching that point with the brown where I just hate everything
about it - it doesn't take me long to get there, these days. Still,
it's Friday night, and I'm pretty sure that, whether I want to or not,
I'll end up scoring after work. And then the guilt kicks in the next
day (or the next month, sometimes one hit leads to another) and I'm
back on the detox thing. . .



This may seem pretty boring - I've been on about my on / off detox
thing since June. . . but it's not as bad as living it - I've been
doing this for about 7 or 8 years now. . .



Ho hum.

[bonghed]

Well, i hope you manage it, but you (i think) have to want to quit 100% to avoid relapsing a 1 off every couple months, And i'm not sure if you do.

I don't think your 1 of "them" but somepeople miss the comfort of being sad, hard to explain what i mean, any way, if you'd like a chat pm me, although i got a few problems of my own, i'll try n sound positive

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by bonghed

Also their is another version of subutex which contains what you mentioned (nax) which stops subutex being abused

It's called Subuxone: Buprenorphine + Naloxone.

[miffy]

Hey guys. . . .

This may be the last post I write on this site for a while – cos it isn't really so relevant to me anymore.

You see. . . I did it!

I finally got clean. I've been off for about 6 months now, and am totally determined to stay that way. If anyone's interested, I'll tell you how it happened.

I reached a point around december where I knew things had to change – or I was going to die. I was living in a truck, in the winter, grim. . . I'd OD'd pretty badly, things were going downhill. . .and, as you see from this thread, my attempts to get clean had been working, then relapsing. . . around and round.

I'd been trying to quit my addiction and keep my life – but I couldn't seperate my addiction from my life. My addiction was my life. So I had to let go of my life.

I quit my job, gave my truck away to my ex-g/f, got rid of my mobile phone. I was lucky, in that I had my mum's place to go to. It wasn't easy. Who wants to have that conversation with their mother?
“Yes, I've been injecting up to £50 of heroin a day, and I've lied to you for years.”

I thought she might tell me to fuck off, but I'd underestimated her. She let me live in her house for 4 months – just getting clean. I treated her with the respect this deserves, and did no drugs in her house.

I did it the hard way – no meth, no subutex, nothing. I relapsed several times throughout January, and didn't use since. I started drinking loads. But I was clean. And content. Planning my future – realising I had a future now.

Still, I felt empty. You lose a habit, you feel that there's something missing. So, one day about a month ago, I got my giro. . . walked through town. . . and realised that there'd always been at the back of my mind a little voice saying - “Not right now matey. But I will be back again”. Heroin's always there when you look for it. I scored, and took my 1st hit in 4 months behind a dirty squat where dogs wouldn't piss. And I died there.

I'd thought 'I'm only going to do this once. . . so it might as well be a good one. I'm clean, so not too much.. . But enough that I can feel it. . . '

When the paramedics arrived, I'd been dead for 3 minutes.


Since then, I've moved away to a new city. It's pretty druggy – but so is every city. Actually, I'm quite into ketamine at the moment. But that's okay. It's not heroin.

And I know now – I really know – that I'm never going to use heroin again.


I came back here to post this to thank all the people who supported me, and to say to all the people who still need support that IT CAN BE DONE!

I don't really have any particular advice to give. Everyone's life is different, and every problem requires a special solution. If there were one thing I could say that I thought would really benefit people it would be : “Don't be afraid to ask for help.”

Thank you, everyone.

Keep it fluffy