hunting the elusive amanitas / Fly agaric

[geordie]

what sort of areas should i be looking in if i want to find some fly agaric mushrooms. ive been picking the last two seasons but have never managed to find any. help please.

[limpet chicken]

Wooded areas are the sort of places.


Amanita muscaria is a mycorhizzal fungus, that forms an association with, most often, the silver birch tree (Betula sp.)


Most commonly, it will be within ten feet or so of a silver birch tree, although I have also known them to grow under conifers, usually larch and pine species, and in one instance, under a Rhododendron bush.


Just remember to heat them sufficiently, otherwise decarboxylation of ibotenic acid, which is toxic, yet still slightly psychoactive, to the desired compound, muscimol, which is 5-10 times more psychoactively potent and does not exhibit such toxic effects.

[OneDiaDem]

From Erowid:

Amanita Notes by Michael S. Smith

Preparation and Ingestion
The most important aspect of Amanita muscaria preparation lies in the drying and/or of heating of the mushroom. What these two processes do is convert the less powerful Ibotenic acid into the highly psychopharacologically chemical muscimol through decarboxylation. If this is not done then the potency as an inebrient is lessened. There are a number of ways to do this. The fresh mushroom can be roasted over an open flame via the Wasson technique discovered by a friend of his in Japan who roasted the mushroom over an open fire and then consumed it with euphoric effects. One technique that I have tried was over a fire as well, but was a little different. I had taken the unripened parasol caps and placed them upside down on a gas grill set on low. As the mushroom heated up liquid condensed in the cup and was drunk. This produced a strong sense of euphoria in which I could not help but dance around and sing to myself (both very common reports by Siberians of A. muscaria intoxication). A very pleasurable experience from a total of about 2 tablespoons of the liquid. One later thought was to take these same mushrooms after collecting the condensed liquid and to press out the remaining juices, but instead I swallowed them in large pieces and retched horribly. I’ve also noticed that as I’ve oven dried my Amanita’s a liquid would drain out of the mushrooms onto the cooking sheet. This liquid might be easily collected by taking the cooking sheet and attaching a screen of some sort a few centimeters above it and allow the liquid to drip into the sheet and dry for later removal. But I believe a dehydrator is the best at keeping their shape and color. One might even want to try expressing the juices from raw or rehydrated mushrooms and then heating the remaining liquid. This liquid may also be dehydrated and gel-capped.

If you have dried your mushrooms then one can simply eat them or else do the hot water method of preparation by bringing some water to the near simmer point, but not quite rolling point, at about 190 degrees, and add the ground mushrooms. Let this cook in the water for about a half hour to an hour and them consume, water, ground mushrooms and all. For those of you who can’t stand the taste of dried mushrooms or the tea (like myself who for some strange reason has the gag reflex the minute I try to swallow, and sometimes when I just smell) the gel-cap method may work best. Simply take the dried mushrooms, grind them up, and stuff into gel-caps. One might also take the tea, dehydrate it, and then gel-cap. I have never tried the tea method, but it may be possible that this method increases the muscimol levels even above drying, so this type of gel-cap method might be worth a try. Since the majority of the alkaloids reside within the caps skin it might also be worth a try either to peal off the skin from fresh mushrooms and dry, or else remove the gills from dried specimens, to reduce the amount needing to be consumed.

A few other less common methods may be worth mentioning, the first is the possibility that the juice of the mushroom could be absorbed through the skin. This method is described by Adrian Morgan in the wonderful and beautiful book Toads and Toadstools, and is the only place I’ve ever heard of such an avenue of ingestion. This method might work best with dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), a aprotic solvent. Another interesting method would be by enema or direct insertion of the mushroom into the vagina, the second method certainly not being condoned as it might easily produce infection, or worse. Clark Heinrich, in his excellent book Strange Fruit, makes suggestions that in Tantric texts and art there exists evidence pointing towards these routes of administration in highly symbolic rituals. Smoking the mushroom has also proven to produce mild effects. Since the skin contains the highest concentrations of muscimol it can be peeled off fresh mushrooms and dried or else the gills and stem can be discarded from dried specimens. I personally would be interested in seeing the effects of smoked concentrated extract or pure muscimol.

The last method I would like to mention is the most interesting and may produce the strongest effects. This is to combine any of the above methods with Peganum harmala seeds or extract to produce monoamine oxidase inhibition. I have never tried this method myself but am aware of one such experimentation which produced very strong effects. I’ve been awaiting a report from this acquaintance, but have yet to receive it. I first heard of this technique from an employee of an occult bookstore and herbal center which sells many uncontrolled entheogens. This employee, and practitioner of Wiccan magic, stated that if Peganum harmala is used with A. muscaria the A. muscaria dosage could be cut in half. I first thought she was confusing her mushrooms, as a dosage of Psilocybin mushrooms can be halved when taken with P. harmala. I mentioned this to her, and to my surprise she stated that she has tried the A. muscaria/P. harmala combination. I later talked with the owner of the store who stated that there is a history of this combination. I personally am unaware of this type of usage in the entheogen community, but it’s possible that it exists in Wiccan practices. Upon my mentioning of this combination on the old Visionary Plant List I received a response from JRH who had mentioned this to J. Ott as a way to clear up the linguistic controversy of Wasson’s and Flattery’s opposing theories. JRH stated that Ott didn’t have anything to say about this possibility.

Due to environmental factors and the possibility that the time of harvesting (see Amanita myths below) effects the alkaloid level and composition of each mushroom it is important to make an attempt to equalize the alkaloid content of the collection you have. This can be done by grinding up all the Amanita’s you have into a powder or else dicing them into small chunks and thoroughly mixing together. The powder is best used in the tea or gel cap method, while the diced mushrooms are good for eating dry or cooking with. If you have whole fresh mushrooms to be heated or dried caps each individual should get an equal portion of each mushroom so that everyone gets exactly the same amount and concentration of alkaloids. By this you can possibly avoid differences in effects among the individual participants.

A couple interesting myths have surrounded these mushrooms for a number or years of which I have difficulty accepting due to their lack of controlled scientific study. The first of these is that North American specimens lack the potency levels of Eurasian specimens. Personally I don’t see how a scientific control group could be produced with a mushroom that is reputed to contain highly variable alkaloid contents from mushroom to mushroom. Now if controlled experiments could be done in a lab environment with North American and Eurasian specimens grown in the same substrate and with identical environmental conditions and then tested for alkaloid concentrations the results might be more reliable. (Hell, it could be the tree which define the mushrooms alkaloids.) But until this is possible I will accept it as a drug enforcement lie produced to discourage experimentation. Also, don’t forget that mushrooms are not plants that have difficulty disseminating throughout the world. The spores are easily transported through the air by wind currents, so I doubt there is any distinctions between North American and Eurasian Amanita muscaria. Just a thought.

A second rumor is that A. muscaria collected in the beginning of the season are more potent, and less toxic to the system, than those collected towards the end of the season. I personally have not done any experimentation in this area, but I do believe that further scientific study is needed to verify this information. From what I understand this is myth has some support in the ethnobotanical lore of Siberian tribes.

Once you are ready to explore the realms of Amanita muscaria intoxication it is recommended that you start by equalizing the strength of the mushrooms by the above mentioned methods. A low dose trial is always in order to test the power of the material you have and to examine how ones body reacts to this particular collection of mushrooms. I believe 5 grams or less is a good starting point which can be gradually increased according to ones desires. Usually the first effects can be felt within the first half hour and vary according to each individuals constitution, but any augmentation of dosage should not be consumed until the effects are in full swing, about 2 hours after ingestion.

The Amanita Intoxication
The Amanita intoxication can be quite variable, from nausea, sweating, and salivation produced from a high level of muscarine in the mushroom, to the more desirous effects of euphoria, elevated mood, auditory and visual hallucinations, and increased strength and stamina produced by the muscimol, or the best of all, to feel the desire to dance and sing. But it must be understood that within this mushroom is heaven and hell. While with one experiment you can find bliss, within the next you may find terror. In one you may feel power and strength and in the next find the deepest somnambulance. This mushroom makes no guarantees, and I believe that it is just such a lack of predictability that has instilled this mushroom with such awe and mystery through Old and New World alike. These are not organisms that you want to carelessly ingest, therefore I suggest that someone care and supervise for you. And unless they are truly sick in body I would attempt to refrain from calling an ambulance, the sickness will pass in time. And remember to first identify Amanita muscaria from its more deadly relatives, A. phalloides, A. ocreata, A. virosa, and A. verna, before gathering on your own. Each of these potentially deadly species can be differentiated from A. muscaria by their saclike volva. If you have any doubt whatsoever about the mushroom you have then discard it.
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[pere0044]

Hello,



I recently went on a mushroom hunt in a forest full of Radiata
Pine trees and found what I believe to be Amanita Muscaria. Most of
them were found completely dried out. The cap was a bright orange
(slightly yellow) and had white spots and a white stem and gills. I
compared them to every photo and description I could find and I can't
find any differences. The photographs of dried Fly Agaric were exact in
every way to the fruits I had found. I was just wondering if there are
any other species of mushroom that resemble dried amanita muscaria?



- KP

</font></font>

[Stingray_313]

They do sound very similar... but taking them based on appearance is very risky.</span>
I would advise you to somehow do more research on them. Many other
mushrooms in the Amanita family are HIGHLY dangerous and can cause
death... and we REALLY dont want that to happen. If you could provide a
picture, im sure some of the mushroom experts here on drugs forum could
give their input.



Remember to keep it safe with mushrooms... its better to know what you
might be getting into then to be on the floor dead. Ya kno?



Peace

[pere0044]

Thanks for replying to my post. I have got a photo, although the
lighting wasn't really good, so the mushrooms don't look as brightly
coloured. I'm not sure of how to post a picture here. Do you have an
email address I could send it to? Thanks again.



KP

[Alfa]

Here are just some of the Amanita's:





Amanita excelsa





Amanita boudieri var. beillei





amanita-crocea





Amanita-franchetii





amanita pantherina





Amanita rubescens





Amanita velosaEdited by: Alfa

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent pictures

[prospero]

It's worth adding that Amanita Muscarias do yellow with age - particularly if it's been raining. Another identifying feature is to take a spore print (leave the cap gill down on a piece of paper overnight) and check that the spore colour matches that given in the textbooks. If you've got access to a microscope you can check the spore shape and size as well.

[graffixak]

Definitely make a spore print before guessing at all. Identification guides are a super great help as well. Usually, even the guide will classify mushrooms by growth pattern (clumps of mushrooms, circles, individuals, etc.), surrounding environment, size, coloring, spore print. When you take all these things together, you can relatively confidently identify a mushroom. But be warned: people across the world, even "experts" and PhD's in mushroomology improperly identify these puppies every year - and suffer (or die) because of it.

[polloloco001]

where and when do they grow?

[Phungushead]

Amanita muscaria grow in temperate (especially coastal) climates...
western US, Europe, parts of Asia. They fruit in the fall (season
is said to be from July to October). Oh yeah, and they ALWAYS
grow under trees - mainly pines, along with a few others... they
are reliant on them.

[jaguarangel]

Join a mycological society. They go out on forays where they will teach you
how to find them. (For collection purposes only of course)!

[Softrat]

A. muscaria, both yellow and red varieties, grow her in the PNW. A. pantherina also grows here. All of them can be found in the fall and A. pantherina is particularly common in the spring.

[GreyApple]

After a rain go out to the nearst cow farm and just look up and down the field under the cow pies and belive me if you dont find anyhting your not looking hard enough THEY ARE OUT THERE.

[polloloco001]

i thought it was cubensis that grow in cow shit

[cactus]

cubies do grow in cow shit.


Ive only ever seen aminitas under pine trees during autum.

[godismdma]

can someone please help me with this...I am wonderin ifextracting the muscimol out of fly agaric's would yeild a somewhat steady reliable effect. It seems like there is so many diferent storys of good and bad expiriences with amantia. I know that the ibonic acid is highly toxic and I am wonderin if extracting the muscimol out would be bennificial, also to perform the extraction would u just do a standerd alkaloid extraction method using a non-polar solvent. From what I have researched it seems like that should work fine, but I dont know if the ibonic acid will become extracted along with the muscimol. Help and opinions would be greatly appreciated PLEASE!!!!!

[Deckstruct 11]

hey people did you know amanita muscaria grows in chihuahua mexico. Thats the state right under texas. It snows in the pine forests and gets very frickin cold in city. One of my best girlfriends went on tourist trail let me ask her what time of year but she went to an indian like area called "el hongo" the only way there is by train. well there are these huge rocks that have big as rocks perfectly balanced on the rock underneath not to mention that the bottom rock is more vertical than horizontal and becomes a point at the tip the indians called this area the mushroom or el hongo but there they went a hiking trip where tourists go also and along the way she recorded these beautiful mushies and called me to tell me about them knowing that im a fanatic of shrooms. She told me the guides warned them that they were poisonous and she began to describe them as being intensered caps, huge shrooms the biggest out there, white stems, under pine trees, with white scabs, just tlike he mario bros. mushroombut the most beautiful mush she has ever seen they had to walk off the trail just to them but she said they also looked scary as hell in a weird type of way that she can't explain. I couldn't beleive it I doubted here and told her its probably another from the one im thinking then i explained the amanita and she assured me it was the one. Abut a month later i visited her and she popped the movie out sure enough amanita muscaria the famous fly agaric and also thought to be soma is growing just under texas.


Edited by: gandhi

[Ninja Master]

ok ok, everyone says pine. im here to say not so! their
primary tree is said to be oak. ive got enough spruce and pine to
play with to know the difrence between spruce and pine producing
them. i also have many fir to play with. oak sadly i do not
have. they say seasons
fall. i find them late spring in abundance. im finding tons
of amanita muscaria var formosa. im also finding verna and
phalloides. they grow under spruce, only you would never notice
because spruce branches grow low enough to the point of covering them
up/destroying them. simple gust of wind and a beautiful mushroom
is destroyed. the first muscaria i found i noticed that the low
branches destory the mushrooms. trim off the bottom 2 feet of all
the spruce trees you see, and you will find them. one day i was
trimming a spruce and found a egg i would of not noticed untill i
trimmed the tree. pine have long needles and do not go half as
low as the spruces do.

[Ninja Master]

the story of christmas. santas dressed in red and white.
its a gift under the "christmas tree." makes you fly around the
world in one night. only to prove my point that the archaic knew
it was the spruce. when you think of christmas tree you think of
a spruce, not exactly a pine. when you hunt amanita, think the
same. fir resembles a spruce, only that fir has branches that are
higher up on the tree. its said that amanita muscaria is the
ledgend of soma. and on to my braging rites.





Edited by: Ninja Master

[Softrat]

Psychoactive amanitas are very comon here in the PNW. I like to hunt A. Pantherina as it seems to be the least toxic, it never makes me sick. A. muscaria, at least the yellow varity, causes alot of nausia. Weed may help to relieve this.


Panthers are very fun, and are mind blowing in combination with weed.

[Ninja Master]

what your describing is amanita muscaria var. formosa. I find
them in bright stark white with warts. the yellow is the standard
var formosa color. during the spring they are mostly yellow with
a slight hint of red twards the center of the cap. during the
fall i find stark white, yellow like i just described, yellow with a
blood red patch in the center, and orange to the very bright red(least
common). they do not change color from drying out or being in the
sun as far as i can tell. the caps self digest and require high
humidity to grow in the first place. alfa, NICE! glad to
know thares another amanita junkie out thare

[Ninja Master]

thares also muscarine in thare. 3 chemicals that are getting you
high as a kite. if you have the pure extract it should be the
same thing every single time per dose. with the exception to how
you personaly take the individual trips psychologicly. i dont
know much about extractions.

[Ninja Master]

ok im back with pictures of 3 difrent conifers to give you an idea on
the kind of trees your looking for and what your NOT looking for.
i will start off with the PINE. these are the long needled guys
in the front. notice that thare are difrent types of pines, white
pine being the most robust, and scotch pine being the most
skanky. ive seen a white pine around 60 foot high and around
20-30 foot wide. BIG. ive seen a scotch pine around 30 foot
high, with only the top having a little bush smaller than this
pine. scotch pine used to be commonly used for telephone poles.



ok next we move on to another conifer known as FIR.



firs almost look like what your looking for but when they are full
sized you can walk, or almost walk, clean under them. they have
short needles but are about half as soft as spruce needles. the
next one is the golden mad man that spits out the amanitas here.
muscarias are said to come under all these trees, but i have enough of
these trees as i think i have said in other posts to know exactly what
they grow under. this is SPRUCE! if im gone for more than 3
hours DONT come find me.



imagine this as being a 500x500 to 800x800 foot block. ive got
like 10 of these, and later pictures will show what i picked 2 days
ago. i picked a batch a week ago, so the buttons formed around 2
weeks ago. glad that i could fix mr smiths "i call em pine" line
with my tree knowledge.
they form "pine cones" and i could see why everyone would call them
pines, but they are realy spruce and the only trees i find amanitas
under. i dont have oaks or birch trees that are also said to grow
these. ive talked to someone from the pacific north west that
says they grow under birch. unfortunately i only get to play with
conifers. merry christmas!!!!

[Softrat]

What you have sounds like A. muscaria, but as a general rule you should not attept to ID dried mushrooms, especially if you are not that familiar with the species. Also when a mushroom is dry you can no longer get a spore print.


In general however A. muscaria and A. pantherina are very easy to ID. Between the two I recomend eating A. pantherina as it does not cause the sickness that A. muscaria does.