Health - Mephedrone: body turned blue with red and purple, limbs numb.

[Alfa]

This account of a mephedrone reaction was sent to me by a member, with a request for advise. This happened yesterday. Please give your response to it:

Hi guys. I did Mephedrone for the fourth time today with a cumulative dosage of around 600mg (somehow...) over around 6 hours from 2am to 8am this morning. I am still confused as to how I finished the gram off since I only remember taking a 100mg bomb and a couple of lines. This morning, at around 8am, maybe earlier, I started to notice my knees turning slightly purple. I had read about that teenager who overdosed and went blue in the face. Naturally, I start worrying a lot. It became worse and worse until my knees were completely blue and my feet were going really pale. It also happened to my arms, quite severely. I started getting confused and tired. I had developed two red rashes one on my shoulder and one on my thigh. I remember watching the blue spread across my arms until i was covering the majority of the "outsides" of my arms. I kept breathing really deeply to try and slow my heart down and get more oxygen to my body. My hands were really blotchy with red and purple. My limbs had lost temperature and were pretty numb and as I looked in the mirror my ears my pale and slightly tinted blue along with my face. I looked closely and my lips were becoming blue as well. I tried to get the energy to phone an ambulance at this point as I thought that was the end of me. However, Very VERY luckily the side effects peaked and started to subside. I lay in bed breathing deeply for around 2 more hours until my limbs were nearly the correct color. Even now, 12 hours since the first dose (and the majority) and 6 since the final dose of around 50mg, my limbs do not feel right, especially my knees. If I cross my legs now my knees start going blue.

This is the scariest experience I have ever had with drugs and it has put me off RCs for life that's for sure. I am confused as to why the problems started when the effects had pretty much gone, around the time I started coming down.

I have taken equivalent doses before and had no side effects what so ever. Does anyone know WHAT THE HELL happened to me? I'm scared that I have caused permanent damage to my cardiovascular system. I also still have poor motor skills and very slow cognition which hasn't changed since I was high.

I am left now with tachycardia, unwanted stimulation, anxiousness, depression, confusion, forgetfulness, half dead limbs, apathy and confirmation (for me at least) that Mephedrone is not worth the risk and it has serious toxic effects on the body.

Some related threads:
should swim be worried about cold on mephedrone
Mephedrone: Potential Neuropathy - PLEASE READ
4-Methylmethcathinone (2-Methylamino-1-p-tolylpropan-1-one) "mephedrone"

[NytShayd]

"I am left now with tachycardia, unwanted stimulation, anxiousness, depression, confusion, forgetfulness, half dead limbs, apathy and confirmation (for me at least) that Mephedrone is not worth the risk and it has serious toxic effects on the body."

I Googled Mephedrone because I had never heard of it and I found this: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/show...e1484_disp.jpg

I don't want to sound like someones mother, but WTF were you thinking?? That being said, the human body is a remarkable machine and has astounded even the most knowledgable experts in regards to healing itself. However, if it was me, I'd stay away from that shit. Probably ought to refrain from everything for a while and see if your condition improves. I hope for the best for you.

Reputation Comments on this post:

The dosage is not extreme, so your scrutiny is somewhat misplaced. Good that you tried to find more info. Next time sear...

[Alfa]

From the sources forum, on the same topic:

Originally Posted by Abrad

Not good, to say the least.

Originally Posted by turkeyphant

Get checked out by a doctor, dude. Also try and get the batch analysed.

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

There could be several reasons for this:

(a) the person is intolerant to 'mephedrone'
(b) this 'mephedrone' is impure (is this source related to other dubious UK sources?)
(c) the person took a very large dose at once (they don't remember their actions)
(d) 'mephedrone' is more dangerous than people assume

However, the dose, over several hours, does not seem extremely high.

Originally Posted by Cuberun

"I have taken equivalent doses before and had no side effects what so ever. "

He mentions no info on frequency.. did he do mephedrone every day 3 days before that perhaps?

I wonder if the above side effects are caused by pure mephedrone or if there is an indequate producer that is putting toxic product. Mephedrone has been widely available for some years now and has been an ingredient in many commercially available and popular products, like neorganics, etc. It's stricking that reports like this are all recent.

@NytShayd: basic information can be found in the threads linked above. Various photos can be found in the image gallery.

[Quantum Dude]

It can be speculated that the para substituted compound 4-methylmethcathinone may have reduced stimulant activity, but as said, its likely to have additional affect on serotonin via both monoamine reuptake/ SERT inhibition and direct agonist affects of the 5HT2b receptors. Concerns have been raised regarding the actions of 4-methylmethcathinone in relation to peripheral 5HT (serotonin) stimulation and how that, combined with other catecholamine activity, may be dangerous to the heart.

In a similar manner to which pulmonary hypertension is caused by peripheral 5HT produced by gastrointestinal carcinoid tumours (and some argue 5HTP), other 5HT2b agonists have been found to cause this effect, which would be exacerbated by increased DA/NE levels and their corresponding affect on the heart. Longer term, such stimulation has been shown to result in fibroblast mitosis of the mitral valve of the left atrium (specifically the Chordae Tendineae).


Analysis of Neorganics Products: 5 new drugs banned in Israel

2-Takafumi Nagatomo, Mamunur Rashid, Habib Abul Muntasir and Tadazumi Komiyama; Functions of 5-HT2A receptor and its antagonists in the cardiovascular system; Pharmacology & Therapeutics Volume 104, Issue 1, October 2004, Pages 59-81
+

Reputation Comments on this post:

	potentially valuable idea, provides references
	QD, as he often does, has broadened the scope of the discussion with his knowledge of pharmacology.

[Evil GIR]

Sounds like at the doses swim took the drug, it acted as a

vasoconstrictor taking all the blood away from his limbs.
I guess he is still lucky to have arms or legs that are still working or
haven't dropped off from gangrene.

I think if people notice any bluing of the limbs then urgent medical attention should be sought.

I do think that this person should go and see there doctor just to make sure no perminte damage has been done.
As there is no way of telling what cellular damage the lack of blood has done to his body/limbs etc.

[Zoidberg]

My pet ghost is certain that he's developed long-term circulation problems after a similar (but much less extreme) experience with Mephedrone.

My advice is to go and see SWIYs doctor or go to the hospital and lay off all stimulants for a while. I hope everything works out.

[Ilsa]

evil GIR has an interesting point regarding vasoconstriction, here's another thread i found on it:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72861


see post number 9 regarding dermatomyositis

[Gradient]

Originally Posted by Quantum Dude

It can be speculated that the para substituted compound 4-methylmethcathinone may have reduced stimulant activity, but as said, its likely to have additional affect on serotonin via both monoamine reuptake/ SERT inhibition and direct agonist affects of the 5HT2b receptors. Concerns have been raised regarding the actions of 4-methylmethcathinone in relation to peripheral 5HT (serotonin) stimulation and how that, combined with other catecholamine activity, may be dangerous to the heart.

In a similar manner to which pulmonary hypertension is caused by peripheral 5HT produced by gastrointestinal carcinoid tumours (and some argue 5HTP), other 5HT2b agonists have been found to cause this effect, which would be exacerbated by increased DA/NE levels and their corresponding affect on the heart. Longer term, such stimulation has been shown to result in fibroblast mitosis of the mitral valve of the left atrium (specifically the Chordae Tendineae).

In my opinion, this is likely the highest quality answer one will be able to receive from a member at DF. The peripheral 5-HT2b activity coupled with catecholamine activation likely accomodates for all of the above-mentioned peripheral side-effects - correctly (most likely) attributed to vasoconstriction. In addition, the persistent anxiety, confusion, and depression also support the idea that norepinephrine/dopaminergic activity exacerbated the likely peripheral serotonergic activity of mephedrone. Found a study characterizing the role of 5-HT2b/c on vasoconstriction, and they suggest a direct link. Here's a relevant quote:

Our data suggest that the vasoconstrictor serotonergic response induced in the in situ autoperfused rat mesenteric vascular bed is mainly mediated by activation of 5-HT2B and/or 5-HT2C receptors.

.

Taken from: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...ad2872c816c8e7

I find it to be interesting that the 'blue-limb' effect was attenuated by lying down flat, and also that the first part of the body to turn blue were the knees followed by the feet (lower body joints). This suggests to me that the vasoconstrictive activity was dependent upon postural orientation; it has been found that young individuals with mild diabetes exhibit an abnormality in blood-flow upon standing up straight:

Abnormalities in the normal reduction of blood flow on standing occurred in young postpubertal children with diabetes, most of whom were free of complications.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that the above-described individual has diabetes. Rather, that the role of postural disposition has a common effect on the expression of visibly-detectable vasoconstriction - from the lower-body on up. Therefore, whatever mechanism mediates the occurrence of vasoconstriction in standing children with mild diabetes may also be recruited by the activity of mephedrone. It's been damn-near impossible to find any study directly focusing on the physiological effects of mephedrone, so unfortunately we're left to speculation, aided by journal articles, investigating the underlying dynamics of the symptoms described.

Given the frequency of reported negative peripheral side-effects from the compound, my chimp has stayed far away from this one - and would urge other chimps to do the same. There are less dangerous, more harmelss compounds available. The prevalence of this 'blue-limb' phenomena, at the very least, indicates a physiologically toxic action of this drug. Accordingly, mephredone strikes me as more of a neuroscientific tool to probe receptors rather than a recreational research compound, and would likely best be used as such.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	relevant points, adds a lot to the discussion
	brings a new idea to the discussion, adds a reference
	Adds a lot of information to the discussion
	Provides a profound continuation of an already insightful and thorough post.
	Good info

[buzzman]

SWIM is finding it incredibly hard to believe all these side effect reports. SWIM and two friends have found Mephedrone to be the only drug they have done, that has no side effects.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	adds nothing to the conversation, denial of the problem rather than help
	what you think people are making it up?

[Alfa]

Well there is certainly something going on. The related deaths, as a result of people becoming blue are described in the papers and in threads here, so we are way beyond speculation if there is something going on. There definitely is. The question is what. Is this a risk that can be attributed to the drug or is this a risk that can be attributed to another factor, like an production error, impure product?

[Gradient]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Is this a risk that can be attributed to the drug or is this a risk that can be attributed to another factor, like an production error, impure product?

I think this is the central issue here. It could very well be a manufacturing impurity, given the irregular occurrence of these effects. Also, it just struck me that immune-system abnormalities or genetic polymorphisms may generate auto-immune responses to the presence of certain exogenous compounds that might interact with receptors on immune cells. This might cause a typical immune response; swelling, bruising, and behavioral abnormalities as well like depression and anxiety.

While I'm still convinced that Quantum Dude's suggestion of potentiated vasoconstriction is likely the primary culprit here - and different individuals are likely variably sensitive to this effect (why some don't feel any problems, while others are horrified to the brink of emergency-room intervention). However, there might be a genetic component here as well that might dictate whether an individual is susceptible to these negative side-effects. Alternatively, if an individual has a predisposition to vasoconstriction due to some physiological condition like diabetes, hypertension, etc - what would normally be negligible levels of vasoconstriction to a physiologically typical individual would be potentiated by the physiological predisposition.

This compound has inarguably atypical activity - the nature of this activity is still completely unknown. Given the lack of physiological information on it, it isn't likely the healthiest choice to ingest this compound. We wont come to an answer here, as the answer simply doesn't exist yet in the literature (at least I haven't been able to find any). I wouldn't be surprised if some studies popped up relatively soon, given the revived interest in psychedelic/RC research. I know I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for such a study.

A final idea - I'm not familiar with the degradation of mephedrone, but perhaps it degrades into a compound with a wider receptor activity than the original compound? This might lead to unanticipated effects as a function of whether or not the compound was handled/stored appropriately. Can anyone confirm or refute this possibility? Please forgive my unbridled speculation, but I feel that any idea is a good one here.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very thorough analysis of the situation. Gradient's science education and writings are invaluable to DF.

[Richard_smoker]

well, i guess the ultimate question of whether this person is currently alive or dead has been answered in the "still alive"... which is a good thing.

it's tough to say exactly what was going on. without any further medical history (sex, age, medical history, heart disease in familiy?, high blood pressure?, etc), it's difficult to say what the odds are of this being a real drug-toxicity.

what i mean is that frequently, this constellation of symptoms will occur in a "regular" panic attack. add the stimulant-intoxication to the picture and you get a FAR FAR intensified experience and a greater chance of this kind of thing occurring.

also, by reading the account, it sounds like the person was aware of the other mephedrone fatalaties and the fact that they included blueness of various extremities--lips, arms, legs, etc.

knowlege of these other fatalities could have DEFINITELY thrown this person from a state of being simply "pumped-up-too-far" from the stimulants into an all-out anxiety attack.

until we know more about this person, i'd have to say that this drug should be avoided in the future along with any other amphetamine or amphetamine-type stimulants... to be totally safe.

however, it should also be noted that 600mg over several hours is a pretty significant dose for someone with little to no previous experience/tolerance to the drug. for someone who has done their fair share of mephedrone and other stimulants, i'd have to say that 600mg over a night is probably not that substantial of a dose....but again, this all depends on purity, medical history, resting blood pressure & heart rate, sex, weight, and other such things.

in these situations, people frequently try and figure out which is to blame--the chicken or the egg? the stimulant or the anxiety? and frequently, i'm afraid it is a cumulative effect of both.
-DICK

Richard_smoker added 2 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

oh yes, and the blueness of lips and extremities on the toxic death stories was likely due to them being hypoxic aka "dead" or "on death's door."

yet, the blueness alone isn't enough to signify much by itself. what's more important are things like heartrate, chest-pain, breathing difficulties, lapses in consciousness, loss of vision, loss of feeling, uncoordination, things like that. -DICK

Reputation Comments on this post:

adds some ideas on the clinical situation

[enquirewithin]

It would be very interesting to know what drugs, if any, the person involved had been taking as well as mephedrone during the period in question. Deaths from 2-CT-7, for example, were all caused by combinations, it seems.

There is certainly cause to treat mepehdrone with caution in the light of this and other cases.

[Synesthesiac]

It is odd though that the first thing that gets discolored in these cases seems to be the knees. Thats what happened to my mate when he went crazy on it. Knees and elbows were blue/purple, hands were slightly too, but feet were fine, just pale. Which points to an auto-immune response rather than cardiovascular. A combination of both could be the cause too. This isn't the first time someone has reported these exact symptoms, which (as far as I know) seem completely unique to mephedrone. Be careful swimmers.

[Jasim]

I too have seen other threads stating similar observations. It doesn't seem to be linked with excessive doses or an overdose.

It's interesting that many reports note the knees as being one of the primary affected areas. Is this a clue perhaps?

Here's another related thread, though with noticeably different effects noted: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78512

I have to admit, this is beyond my pharmacology knowledge. But I'm very interested in learning more. I will report back if I find anything.

It might be worthwhile to begin looking at the pharmacological profiles of potential side-products of common mephedrone synthesis.

[Alfa]

There are several threads that together expose that there is a real danger with mephedrone:

1. Mephedrone: body turned blue with red and purple, limbs numb. URGENT RESPONSE NEEDED!
2. Mephedrone (2-Methylamino-1-p-tolylpropan-1-one) experiences
3. Should swim be worried about extreme cold/freezing on mephedrone?
4. mephedrone is not a toy: Heart problems
5. Mephedrone hospitalization: Purple knees, extremities
6. Mephedrone: Potential Neuropathy - Extreme side effects. PLEASE READ
7. 4-Methylmethcathinone (2-Methylamino-1-p-tolylpropan-1-one) "mephedrone"
8. Mephedrone violent convulsions: hospitalisation
9. mephedrone: felt like his heart was going smash through his rib cage
10. Mephedrone fatigue: heart & breathing problems
11. Help Feeling Mephedrone effects 48+hrs after last dose
12. Teenager dies of mephedrone overdose
13. Possible mephedrone death
14. Research Chemicals (Methylone and Mephedrone) and amnesia
15. If you have experienced side effects with Mephedrone, then read this.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Nice work compiling all these threads into a single list
	A prime example of Alfa's dedication to harm reduction and to DF in general.
	an important post, vital inforanmtion, please make a sticky out of this!

[enquirewithin]

The blue/ purple limbs/ extremities symptoms which some users get are very worrying. This drug seems to have very damaging effects on some people.

A newspaper report quoted this:

A Danish teenager died in last May and was in possession of mephedrone but toxicology reports were inconclusive. One effect of mephedrone can be that it causes compulsive redosing, known as "fiending", where users intend to take only a small amount, but end up consuming their entire supply. "I did eight grams of meph over the weekend," reported one user. "My heart is still beating strangely and my mouth has all the skin peeled off on the inside."

[lineartransform]

I would be very helpful if we could begin to trace where these batches came from. I realize there is a need to protect vendors, but I have a feeling these strong vasoconstriction cases are not a result of mephedrone in general, but a result of a contaminant or similiar.

My rationale for this is admittedly weak - that these vasoconstriction cases appear to have popped up very recently and mephedrone has been around for far longer.

Tracing things in this manner would allow us to determine if it is a risk of mephedrone in general or a result of a shady lab.

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by lineartransform

My rationale for this is admittedly weak - that these vasoconstriction cases appear to have popped up very recently and mephedrone has been around for far longer.

Mephedrone hasn't been around for that long and has become much more popular recently.

[Richard_smoker]

yeah, i'd dare say that mephedrone IS by far the most popular currently available rc, with the jwh's a very distant 2nd, perhaps.

i must admit, after having a day to think this over, there's definitely something weird that COULD be going on outside the usual stimulant overdose &/or anxiety attack &/or serotonin-syndrome (meph is thought to have a significant serotonin component).

I understand that there have been a couple of cases where people have done mephedrone and other new beta-ketone analogues that have resulted in a severe, sudden vasculitis-type picture resulting from blood cells being "attacked" or more-likely, attacking each other.

There are a few possibilities for this, but it definitely borders on subject materials that i'm NOT an expert and i urge anyone else to add, subtract, or alter my thoughts here...

1. First of all, by definition, if these people required emergency vein-reopening surgeries with impairment of walking and possible loss of ability to walk, this means that for THESE PEOPLE, the END RESULT of this drug (or possibly another rc or combo) has been distal vasculitis. Essentially, it sounds like there has been some kind of obstruction taking place in the distal-most (smallest caliber) blood vessels...either impeding arterial flow (most likely) or venous return.
2. Since 'blood cells attacking each other' has been mentioned by the patients' physicians, this further clarifies the disease process as being autoimmune in origin. This means that the body's natural defense organs (white blood cells, lymph nodes, etc.) have been "triggered" for whatever reason and the activated white blood cells are attacking some other component of the body. possible targets include: other white blood cells, red blood cells, dissolved proteins in the blood including "serum" or "complement" proteins, and/or any other tissues in the body, although from the sounds of it, the target tissues are some kind of blood component (WBC, RBC, or dissolved "serum" protein).
3. Autoimmune vasculitis can be caused by a few different things...
   1. antibodies to white blood cells (WBC vs WBC)
   2. antibodies to red blood cells (WBC vs RBC)
   3. complement activation (the body's "second defense"--basically proteins that accumulate on target cells to punch holes in the cells, resulting in dead cells without requiring white blood cells to kill). aka "serum sickness"
4. Any of these three things lead to a "thickening" of the blood...
   1. just think of what would happen if all the sugars, coloring agents, and flavors that are dissolved in a can of cola were to all suddenly become "magnetized" and the dissolved particles became suddenly attracted to each other! you'd end up with a glass of clear water with a giant "rock" or crystal made up of all the ingredients in the cola....
   2. this is what happens in autoimmune vasculitis. the blood gets thick & sludgy & eventually it cannot flow into the small-diameter vessels that feed the calves, feet, fingers, toes, nose, penis, elbows, for example.

There are MANY drugs that are known to cause complement activation and serum sickness which could lead to a similar picture of autoimmune vasculitis. In fact, there are so many accepted drugs that are used on a daily basis (by doctors, not recreational users), that listing them would be exhausting... but suffice it to say that i can't think of any recreational drugs that fit this description.

Many times, people get upset that a physician's prescription is even necessary to get antibiotics and other drugs. These kinds of side-effects immediately come to mind.

For these drugs in particular (mephedrone, other beta-ketones), common sense tells you that IF someone were predisposed to having this sort of reaction, it would be worsened by the fact that these drugs are all stimulants and therefore, vasoconstrictive---meaning that not only is the blood thick and sludgy, but now the vessels are even smaller...

I really hate going out on a limb like this over something so serious, but if this diagnosis/theory is correct, then only a certain percentage of the population would even be succeptable to this kind of problem...usually that percentage is very small.

Reputation Comments on this post:

An interesting and well explained theory

[old hippie 56]

Autoimmune issues are related to Parkinson disease, MS, ALS also. Since this is a concern to many here, would it be feasible to link it with the manufacturing process where potassium permanganate is used. No chemist here, just a question.

[Benga]

to add to the list ( post isn't up to date anymore)

mephedrone side effect list
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...&postcount=242

requote

suspicion that "High doses of mephedrone probably trigger some sort of compliment or other immune system activation, creating a temporary vasculitis. A vasculitis would be more consistent than vasoconstriction given the symptoms since it is thin areas of skin rather than distal extremities which show changes."
greenish grey black colored veins after use in combination with popper's / amyl nitrite. User's lips, gums and around the eyes went black / green in colour- possible methemoglobinemia
turning "blue in the face"

[Alfa]

Some more info about & medical history of the person experiencing this:

Sex: Male
Age: 17
Medical History: nothing really to note aside from the meph scare.
Other Drugs within a 12hr period: GBL, cannabis

Originally Posted by Cuberun

"I have taken equivalent doses before and had no side effects what so ever. "

He mentions no info on frequency.. did he do mephedrone every day 3 days before that perhaps?

I asked the person about this and got this response:

It also looks like the dose schedule went like this:

Saturday 1:
- 10am : small line (50mg-ish) in the morning
- 9pm : 500mg (lines)
Sunday 1:
- 11am : 100mg (lines)

Saturday 2 (One week later)
- 1pm till 9pm : small lines
- 9pm till 5am : 1000mg (150 orally, the rest nasally)

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by keeyn

ALPHA
I think its very important on this occasion, to name the source where this mephedrone came from.
This could be an impure batch, I have used it extensively and never came close to these symptoms, only a raised heartbeat

Not sure about naming sources, but I agree that many people seem to not get any side effects at all, but some seem to get really bad ones instantly. I've spoken to people on other forums that have used a gram of meph once every week for a year now (some saying even more than that), people who have done ten grams in ten days, people who have gone on 4-5 gram binges in a couple of days, and they reported no side effects. BUT, and its a very big BUT, there are a few people that DO seem to get these severe side effects even with low and infrequent use which to me indicates that: 1) Some people for whatever reason cant manage meph at all, whereas some lucky people seem fine on it and 2) there are numerous bad batches going around and the few people who use large amounts of the bad ones are the ones showing the bad symptoms. One or the other, or both.

From swims previous personal experience there have been three main batches of meph that he has seen. The first one was really fluffy and smelt of fish and urine really badly. This one seemed to be okay for side effects. Then there was a large batch from europe which was more powdery, and still had a slight fishy smell to it but not as strong as the other one and tasted more chemically when snorted. This is the one my friend had the discolored joints on. And there is the much newer batches that seem to be coming en mass from china, these are in pure crystal form and resemble pure crytal MDMA in appearance. From what I've read, most people prefer the crystally batch from china. But there could also probably be a few bad batches in any of the previous types of batch. Made by people oft referred to as the scum of the earth for selling contaminated drugs to people just because they cant be bothered to do a couple of tests on the purity of the product, thus putting peoples lives at risk for personal profit. These people should be hunted down and tortured.

But my vote goes with the white powdery european one that swims friend brought from an austrian vendor, but this is purely on the anecdotal experience my friend had. Many others used it without issue apparently.

One thing is for sure, with so many different batches going around that are so different in texture, color, smell, taste, effects, side effects and appearance, swim ain't touching the stuff for a good while until we know a bit more.

We need someone with access to each different batch to run some tests on the batches. Ideally someone with access to full blown gas chromatography-mass spectrometry analysis equiptment

Synesthesiac added 4 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Saturday 2 (One week later)
- 1pm till 9pm : small lines
- 9pm till 5am : 1000mg (150 orally, the rest nasally)

Worth noting that swims mate who got the weird purpling of the knees effect too snorted about a gram that night, and didn't bomb any. He pretty much was snorting it the whole week. I wonder if it could be related to some bad chem that can only get into your system via the nasal passage and is broken down by the stomach and so doesn't effect people this way? Pure guess. Me'sa no expert. Just looking for a common link here.

[Richi]

How has no one mentioned going strait to the hospital?

This is what I would do it my limbs were purple and numb.