Need Advice Please - Getting off and the WDs

[MissM87]

MAN! I just had a big ole thing written out and it somehow got deleted when I double clicked on the smiley face - don't you hate that?!? ARrrg!

Anywho... Major newb over here and looking for some advice - any and all is welcome!! I have been reading the advice and have seen a LOT of great words of wisdom offered to others... So hoping you all might have some more words for me?

My friend Goobie takes about 60-120mg Morphine (MS Contin) + 1500-3000mg Narco/Vicodin + some odd amount of Oxycodone every day, maybe more maybe less, depending on day. She mixes them all together to get the best euphoria/high possible.. Usually taking 2-4 doses per day. She only took one dose yesterday, though and couldn't believe the difference in her attitude! It was WONDERFUL!!! She's very proud of herself for only dosing ONCE!

She needs to stop all of these NOW - this has been going on for almost two years. She's very afraid of the withdrawals that come along with getting off though. She is slowly but surely cutting down on the amount that she takes but is still experiencing the WD symptoms!? What's the BEST way to get her off of these suckers!?! They've become a MAJOR part of her life and have made it a living hell - because she abuses them so badly! She's really, truly determined to end this before it gets even more out of control..!

Again, ANY and ALL words of wisdom are very much appreciated! Goobie has nowhere else to go and is extremely GRATEFUL for these FORUMS!

[Dickon]

I'm afraid I'm about to collapse as I'm really tired, but wanted to say I saw your post and wish you all the best.

You could have a quick look at A how-to guide to opiate detoxification. My cat managed to get off opiates about 7 months ago and used this forum for support. If you want to read his story, it's here: Screaming in the night air. The first few posts are hard to understand because my cat was a bit drunk and coming off a fair bit of methadone!

You really need to decide on whether you are going to do this cold turkey, or hit upon some kind of reduction. The alternative is getting onto methadone or buprenorphine (subutex, suboxone), but in my view it's far preferable to quit everything. Getting onto either methadone or buprenorphine will mean a really bad w.d. one day if you decide to quit.

There are lots of people here who've been where you are. I'll pop back tomorrow to see how you're getting on.

All good wishes and strength

Dickon

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Very helpful

[MissM87]

Thank you very much for you helpful links and advice, Dickon, they are very appreciated over here. I read through both of your suggested links and the Detoxing one is wonderful - great advice - and I have printed it out to make some notes and go over it more! Your other post was, as you said, a little difficult to follow and understand - being as you were drunk BUT, I did read further posts down and figured out what you were saying that way.. WTG on your pet (iguana is it?) quitting Methadone that is truly terrific! Goobie has tried it before (to stop opioids) and decided it was just TOO DARN GOOD (not to mention ADDICTING) so that's not a good option for her...

Goobie isn't sure if she wants to quit cold turkey or not, she's thinking that will be the best way for her. The reason being, she can't just take a pill and not have it do anything for her - she has to take enough to make it count, ya know? It's going to be tough going but she knows that there will be light at the end of the tunnel. She's trying to figure out which course of action is best and will be sleeping on this tonight - hopefully making a firm decision by tomorrow or the next day.

Again, today, she's only dosed ONCE and has only taken 60mg MS Contin, 1500mg Narco and 1 1/2 Oxycodone (not sure of mgs).. That's still A LOT though, isn't it? It's much less than her normal though, so it's making her feel very uneasy. She very much wants to go take another dose right now but is *somehow* able to keep herself from doing it..! so that's good..

Anyways, get some good sleep and thank you again for your response! Talk to you soon...

[rokman nash]

Your friends situation sounds eerily similar to my friend Daves.The first step is realizing that Goobie has a problem(done), congratulations.The second is to figure out how to deal with this in the manner best suitable for your friend.

A couple things to consider are, does your friend have to work or go to school daily?It would be very hard to commit to a CT while doing either of these regularly.A very quick bupe taper(subutex/suboxone) can be done with very little discomfort on your friends end.

Dave went 4 months CT before he relapsed, then did a 2 week bupe taper that so far has been successfull.If Dave can help in anyway please let me know.

Good thoughts

[MissM87]

Thank you very much Rokman for the advice/suggestions, I really do appreciate them! I'm really happy for your friend Dave for quitting this junk, that's just great!! Goobie isn't as far in as she could be, but that would only be a matter of time - she's been having thoughts about the harder drugs (cocaine, heroin) and knows the time to stop is NOW!

Goobie actually DOES have to work and go to school during the week, so you're probably right about the CT thing - unless she can take a week off or so and maybe go to the beach or something... She also has an amazing 3 1/2 year old son that she's raising on her own and doesn't want this to effect him anymore than it already has.. She's afraid of what he would see/hear during a CT comedown..

As for the Suboxone bupe taper, Goobie doesn't know how to talk to her family doctor about all that.. Is the doctor the only one that prescribe it - do you know? It's not like Methadone is it? She's tried that and liked the feeling/high too much, you know!? Really if she could go to the doc today and demand Suboxone then she probably would! She's been reading lots of good things about it!

But, the last time Doc dealt with her "problem" he referred her to a Detox Clinic and the Detox people told her that she'd be fine at home (since she was tapering down from Methadone slowly for about a week, after a week in the hospital). Doc said he couldn't prescribe medications for her to get off of drugs, or something to that effect, because it would be illegal!? But if it's Suboxone maybe he'd feel differently?

She just doesn't know how to go about getting it done! She knows that she DOES want to stop because she's got a MAJOR problem and it's making her life a living hell! But she has to keep taking otherwise her body and mind wigs out and she feels like she can't get out of bed all day! Having an energetic boy and full time work/school schedule does not allow for this type of behavior on her part.. Maybe she's just making too many damn excuses and needs to just try it and get it over with - the CT!?!

Sorry if the writing goes off to wherever, it's more for Goobie's own healing/dealing process, writing really helps her get it all out. She goes a little overboard sometimes though (on writing among many other things).. The idea that somebody else might be reading this and can actually understand and relate to her thoughts and feelings makes her feel really good inside, to be perfectly honest.. Maybe she needs a therapist instead of a computer room? This seems just as helpful as a group session though, from what I've seen..

Have a wonderful day Rokman, and thanks again..!

[rokman nash]

Google suboxone clinics in your area, call and make an appointment.There's a little paper,interview hassle, and she might have to attend a couple meetings, but its not that bad.

The important thing is make sure you do a very quick taper, as sub WDs suck almost as much as opiate WDs.It can be done comfortably in 2 weeks or so.If interested, when ready PM and Dave can give you an easy to follow taper schedule.


Good thoughts

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For offering your continued help and support.

[Dickon]

I think Rok may be right. A short taper on buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex) will be easier than going cold turkey. You could also try and get some clonidine or lofexidine for the end of the taper and/or after you quit.

Stay strong, and well done on cutting down

Dickon

[ex-junkie]

Originally Posted by Dickon

I think Rok may be right. A short taper on buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex) will be easier than going cold turkey. You could also try and get some clonidine or lofexidine for the end of the taper and/or after you quit.

Stay strong, and well done on cutting down

Dickon

this.

buprenorphine has a tendency to hype people up, so school could be continued. something to keep the mind occupied is always a good thing. dont be scared in the slightest, the fear can hold you back from something that can be accomplished in 1-2 weeks. also if swiy takes any blood pressure medication try not to stand up too quickly, or she could faint.

goodluck.



edit: hmmz, people will notice if swiys on buprenorphine, so maybe few days off would be good. from the outside looking in, swiy would look like shes consumed some amphetamines, which isnt a good look at school/work. :P

[MissM87]

So I know it's been about a month since Goobie and I have been on here.. Goobie couldn't seem to quit her pills until after school - she was deathly afraid of the detox part. Well, she finished school on Wednesday the 10th of June and that was also the last day that she's taken any pills! She's been clean for almost 1 1/2 weeks now and can't hardly believe how easy it was (easier than she was expecting)! FOR HER, anyways.

She went into the ER on Thursday (11th) and was give Clonodine, Promethazine and some Ativan (sp?) while in there. They sent her home with 10 Clonodine and 30 Promethazine scripts. She's finished with the Clonodine (as of Wednesday morning) and is doing soooooo incredibly well! It's so hard to even imagine her without the pills and herb - after years of constant use!! She's not a whole new person but she's definitely a better, more clear headed person It's amazing what life CAN turn out to be when you're not blazed and out of it all the time.
Goobie just wanted to say thanks to Dickon and Rokman and Ex-Junkie for their amazing words of encouragement and knowledge!! Goobie's moved to Alaska for a month to be away from all possible sources and to start her life over. Admittedly, she couldn't have done this on her own.. She met an awesome, (beyond) supportive man who has truly made a huge difference!
Just wanted to say THANKS to ALL and give an update.
I'll be popping up in here more now that I don't feel so "guilty" for not quitting.

MissM87 added 6 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

this.

buprenorphine has a tendency to hype people up, so school could be continued. something to keep the mind occupied is always a good thing. dont be scared in the slightest, the fear can you back from something that can be accomplished in 1-2 weeks. also if swiy takes any blood pressure medication try not to stand up too quickly, or she could faint.

goodluck.



edit: hmmz, people will notice if swiys on buprenorphine, so maybe few days off would be good. from the outside looking in, swiy would look like shes consumed some amphetamines, which isnt a good look at school/work. :P

You're exactly right Ex, fear was holding SWIM back! SWIM is so happy that she finally just did it! It was absolutely miserable the first 4 days or so, but she's since gotten over that! The Clonodine really knocked SWIM on her ass but it seemed to be what she needed to sleep and get through the roughest times.

SWIM is very glad that she waited until after school was finished - because she'd not have made it through finals if she quit beforehand.. It may have prolonged the process, but she was also tapering down at the same time (as school was ending). This seemed to really make a difference on the W/Ds that she experienced too

SWIM IS SO HAPPY SHE COULD SCREAM AND SHOUT! Lol

[MissM87]

Thank you both, Dickon and Rokman for your great words of wisdom. I think that Goobie is definitely leaning towards the taper off bupe, instead of the CT, wanting and needing to be able to to function still as she comes off.

She looked up the Suboxone Clinics (2) in her area is going to make the calls on Monday (tomorrow). Hopefully one of them will be able to help her out and keep her off for good - that's the hardest part, staying off, she's sure.. Now she really wishes that one week in the hospital and week's worth of Methadone would've kept her off like it could have! $12,000 later and she's going to be spending even more now because she's an idiot!! :eep Breaths:: She's still anticipating a price range on this whole thing. Luckily she has some extra money right now, so she should be able to finish out the whole 2 weeks.

She's been trying to psyche herself out by reminding herself that she's not going to be able to pop pills throughout the day anymore and have that instant fix - it's going to be much different sober. She probably should quit smoking marijuana as well, she's guessing, to get completely straight? Any thoughts on that would be helpful too..

Well, thanks again and again and again guys! Have a great day! Enjoy the sun, if you got it!

[rokman nash]

During the initial first week or so a little weed, and/or alcohol can help.Saying that its much easier for your friend to abstain from your DOC if your not under the influence of any mind altering substances.

We are sort of an extended family here in R & A, and if your friend has questions or just needs to vent, this is a great place to do it.

Good luck Good thoughts

[ex-junkie]

oooooooh. supportive men work wonders in recovery.

this is just what swiy needs tbh. also the trip to alaska will do swiy wonders. after that first couple of months, the desire to stay straight is larger. getting away is good for the soul.

sounds like swiy is doing so well. swiy should be proud.

[MissM87]

ex-junkie,

I have to agree, supportive men do work wonders! SWIM can't believe her luck that she found him. He's truly been the rock that SWIM needed. Doubt that SWIM'd be sober at the moment if not for him, honestly.

It has helped that SWIM moved up here to Alaska with him too, so SWIM doesn't have the same group of friends and hookups. It's been amazing. Was scared at first, because of the newness of everything. Now SWIM's LOVING it and doesn't want to leave.

Very proud and happy with SWIMself...! Waiting for the day that the cravings are gone though. They seem to be getting SWIM down.. It's all a matter of mind over matter, suppose. Thank goodness for DF, it's really been a huge help, full of support and words of encouragement.

Thanks for replying, Ex. Hope you're doing well! Good vibes.

[ex-junkie]

yah am out of coffee though. :P



when swim detoxed, her ex partner had a work accident, and was in VERY bad shape with all sorts of broken bones and fractures. she scored heroin for him 4 times, sat in the car with the dealer and spoke to him/did the transaction herself, then went further to mix up and administer it for him. she also had to dose him morphine tablets for the first week or so after he came home.

none of this bothered swim, because she didnt let it.

she did however talk to herself constantly, saying, "im bigger than this, the power is all in my hands, opiates aint got shit on me".


moral of this story, is if you fear the reaper, it will keep its hold on you. always stay one above it, and nothing can touch you. you only give in if you let yourself basically, so learn to distrust opiates, remember the pain it causes, and hate the beast. if you dont hate it, then it will always be your long lost lover that you pine for.

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Swims a tough broad, and should be proud of herself

[MissM87]

Ahhh... No coffee for this gal..! Coca-Cola is her downfall instead :P

It sounds like SWIY has some major willpower and strength above all of the influence that she encountered. SWIM wishes she could have a touch of that. It seems like as she gets more cleaned out she's gaining some more strenght/willpower each day. WOOT.

SWIM takes your words very much to heart, "learn to hate opiates.. hate the beast". Never thought of it that way but it makes PERFECT sense. That's the thing, is that it is like being in love and you DO pine for it. Unless you can hate it. Currently working on hating it - it's harder than expected, though. SWIM will stay above it and will be stronger than it. One day at a time, she's doing it, to her complete surprise..! Happily surprised everyday by herself, really.

Hope all is well in Bumsfuckville :P Have a great day, Ex, hope to talk to you soon. Your words, as I've said before, really do a lot for this SWIMmer!

[ex-junkie]

the high on heroin is so short lived, its reason enough to hate it. after all 4 hourly half life, followed by weeks of hell and inner torture. fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that.

not to mention the cost. could go on all day really.

isnt it nice though, when you start to "feel" again. start to yawn normal yawns, and not have that dreaded, "ah fuck im starting to hang out" feeling.

[MissM87]

LOL Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that indeed!

SWIM has never dabbled in Heroin and is grateful for that. Possibly she would have if she'd continued using the pills, but who knows really. Heroin sounds like a nasty drug of choice and even nastier to get off..! How long has SWIY-ex been sober? How are things going with your life - seen any drastic changes?

It's nice to "feel" again - for the most part. Still having problems keeping the emotions under control, as they seem to be all over the place. Also, it's been 17 days and SWIM is still having hot/cold flashes and sweats, which is quite embarassing and annoying! Any idea as to when that all ends?
It's kind of nice to feel the normal aches and pains that the body is supposed to have, though. It makes SWIM know that the crap is really out of her system, finally - for the most part...!

Hope you're having a great day, Ex! Talk at you laters.

[rokman nash]

@ missm87, Swim should feel some normality in a week or two. And the emotional rolercoaster will start to slow also.It took my friend Dave about a month to find some sort of balance in his life, and it seemed to improve from there on an almost daily basis.


Good Job Good Thoughts

[MissM87]

Originally Posted by rokman nash

@ missm87, Swim should feel some normality in a week or two. And the emotional rolercoaster will start to slow also.It took my friend Dave about a month to find some sort of balance in his life, and it seemed to improve from there on an almost daily basis.


Good Job Good Thoughts

Thank you Rokman for the good thoughts! Very much appreciated..! It's been 18 days today and SWIM can't wait to be done with the emotional and physical rollercoaster. Very much looking forward to the one month mark, for all sorts of reasons...! Mostly for the normal feeling(s) to start. Also SWIM wants the cravings to be over already! They seem to really get her down.

All in all doing good though. Have a good one!

[fuzelogic]

SWIM hopes that SWIY can continue with the success so far and can't even imagine what SWIY is going through!

SWIM noticed a friend had good success when switching up the routine and to quit being so consistant when taking the pills. For example, They switched the normal times from taking the pills and extending the amount of time between the dosage. SWIY should consider that a success and an accomplishment.

Then after sometime, my friend said that they also started to reduce the mg amount of the pill. He said that SWIY would need to be the judge of when the time is right to make the jump.

SWIY should understand the journey will never be the same as anothers or that the path will be clear cut. Heck they might even have a setback, but it's about building on the small successes and not falling back into the rut if temptations arise.