Drug info - THH hcl ?

[nEone]

There are scant reports around the net (many of which are repeats) that THH (Tetrahydroharmine) is active and interesting in its own right - not just as an ayhuasca component.

SWIM is particularly interested in THH hcl - and comparative effects from oral, sublingual, and insufflated assays.

Any experiences with this substance, independent of other chemicals?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for starting this thread. Very interesting compound as far as I can tell. Hopefull we get some responses out of t...

[nEone]

This was left under SWIM's door this evening:

Subject: Male - 190lbs
Method: Sublingual
Dose: 25mg - THH Hcl

Empty Stomach - powder is a greyish, tannish white - fluffy powder. Subject's first challenge is figuring out how to administer the sublingual dose. The powder is scraped onto a piece of paper and the paper is used to dump the powder under the tongue.

T+0:00 - Slight burn, but not much.
T+0:05 - Slight numbing where the powder landed - saliva building.
T+0:10 - Copious amounts of saliva - test subject has managed not to swallow - but it's getting gross. Whole area under tongue is slightly numb/tingly - no discomfort other than the tongue is getting tired from holding it in such a way that the subject doesn't swallow.

T+0:20 - OK - Subject thinks that enough is enough and swallows the built up saliva. No immediately noticeable effects other than slightly numb tongue.

T+0:25 - Strike that - upon standing, Subject notices a slight cloudy-headed feeling that extends into his hands. Nothing unsettling - but definitely a slight body load. Subject has a banana.

T+0:35 - Subject still feels full body...something. Not euphoric waves...but not unpleasant, more of a constant pressure slowly mounting - but again not unpleasant - Balance is off by a hair, but only just enough to note internally - not enough to exhibit any imbalance.

T+1:00 - Sensation of pressure has faded - but there's still a slight "fog". Mood is good, but mood wasn't bad to begin with. Maybe a little more free with expression - inclination to move around to music, etc.

T+2:00 - Mostly normal - with a little off-kilter. Feels similar to the last half-hour of coming down from a tryptamine or MDMA.

T+3:00 - Back to baseline.

Comments: Overall - THH hcl showed definite non-Placebo activity. Calling 25mg "pleasant" would be a stretch - it was more just "present". Further assay at higher dose will be worthwhile.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Thank you. Interesting and informative.
	Very valueable info about an exotic compound. Please add information about after effects, side effects in the conclusion...
	Very useful information.SWIM will be interested to see the results of higher a higher dose.

[Waste]

SWIM is quite interested in this one, tell SWIY to keep up the research

[nEone]

Another note was under the door this morning:

Note: No side-effects/hangover were noticed by subject following the previous 25mg, sublingual assay.

Subject: Male - 190lbs
Method: Sublingual (held under tongue/in mouth for 25 minutes, then swallowed.)
Dose: 50mg - THH hcl

T+0:00 - T+0:25 - almost identical to previous assay - numb/metallic tongue, more saliva build up this time...still just as gross - but not due to taste - it's just a lot of spit.

T+ 0:30 - definite body load, more floaty...some slight vision blur (we're talking SLIGHT here) - slight "stoning" akin to the body load from a low dose of Kratom, though more head-heavy.

T+ 0:45 - ok, stronger body sensations than before - some slight "rushing" sensations - but very localized in the head - the tactile response for the rest of the body seems slightly diminished. Feels like this would be a completely socially-controllable level - feels good (not great), Music is fun (but when isn't it?).

T+1:00 - Effects still going along nicely - maybe not as intense as 15 mins ago.

T+1:10 - Nope, strike that - still going well. Music really helps.

T+2:00 - Effects subsiding. There's something funny about this experience...it's not particularly pleasant or unpleasant. It's there - but that's about it. Yeah, balance and headspace are a tad wonky - but other than that, there's a kind of "meh" quality to the effects - not bad...not at all - not insignificant either - but besides the occasional head-rushy kind of body-load surge...it's pretty hard to pin down.

T+2:45 - Pretty much baseline.

Comments: So, this second time around, with double the dosage, the effects were much more pronounced (though the "pressure" sensation wasn't evident). But it's important to note that even in the peak of the effects, they'd rank up there with a medium to low dose of Kratom (or three cups of coffee, or half of a bong hit). There's nothing recreational or therapeutic that the subject has noticed - though there is a sense of calm that could be useful to someone prone to stress or anxiety - but the subject isn't really prone to that, so it's hard to tell.

THH seems to be best thought of as a supporting player - as its effects when combined with tryptamines is well documented. As a solo-player - it's simply not all that interesting at the dose-range experimented with in these two assays. There is every possibility that, like Kratom, there's a level of experience with the material required in order to know what to expect and evaluate and this researcher acknowledges that it would be proper scientific procedure to repeat these doses several times before making broad judgments. Unfortunately the supply available to the researchers at this time dictates a linear approach.

The subject will try one final experiment at 125mg sublingually.

After that this research team may consider experiments with THH in conjunction with Kratom, as there's a similarity (though not really, if that makes sense) that seems to indicate that they'd be complimentary.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great report...this is indeed a very interesting compound

[catchdog]

SWIY probably knows this already, but please be careful if considering combining THH with kratom. It's hard to find concrete information as to whether MAOI+kratom is safe or not but I do recall reading an anecdotal report about borderline hypertensive effects after combining syrian rue and kratom.

[nEone]

The researchers would absolutely revert back to low doses in any combination efforts.

THH is a RIMA, which is a subclass of MAOI that is not considered to be a high-threat for hypertensive effects - but as always, caution is the best approach to any new combination.

[catchdog]

True, but Harmine/Harmaline are also RIMAs, and while they are not likely to cause hypertensive effects from diet alone they can have some pretty nasty interactions with other drugs.

[nEone]

Absolutely true. All experimentation will be very closely monitored.

[nEone]

I got back to my office and found this note along with a bunch of junk-mail and delivery menus:

Subject: Male - 190lbs
Method: Sublingual (held under tongue/in mouth for 25 minutes, then swallowed.)
Dose: 125mg - THH hcl

T+0:00 - T+0:30 - Same build up, same intensity - oddly, less saliva - maybe due to simply not having as much room under the tongue, or more powder to absorb the spit - SWIM was expecting markedly more noticeable body load, etc. but the experience was not in any significant way different than 50mg.

T+ 0:30 - T+1:00 - Definitely not "sober" - probably just slightly outside of the range where it would be responsible to drive or work. Not out of it - just not "in it". Physical sensations are muted and not particularly more intense than 50mg. Just kind of floaty.

T+1:00-2:00 - effects sustained at a plateau of "huh - yeah, I'm not sober" but never really got into any state that could be described as "interesting".

T+3:00 - and done.

Even at 125mg - the manifestation of THH seems to be subtle at best. 1/2 dose of Kratom, maybe, or the tail end of a hit of schwag, or half a beer with lunch. Not nothing, but not much.

There's little reason for further research at higher doses - the cost-effectiveness of THH seems to be best used in conjunction with tryptamines, for those so-inclined.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good report and description of the drug's best use.

[flipdoubt]

Hello all!

I was wondering if anyone might perhaps have any input I could pass on to a friend of mine who lives overseas & has no internet access where he's located.

He recently came across some THH & told me he is interested in experimenting with it. Only thing is, he is a chronic pain patient and takes some pretty heavy duty prescribed meds. Here's the list:

Dextroamphetamin/Amphetamine (Adderall XR) 20mg - 1/day in the morn.

Oxycodone/APAP (Percocet) 10/325 - as many as 6x/day

Diazepam (Valium) 5mg - 2-4x/day

Carisoprodol (Soma) 350mg - 1-2/day

He tells me he also takes diphenhydramine, (Benadryl) & DXM gels (Tussin Cough Softgells) every few days or so.

He was hoping I could find out whether or not he would have to worry about any interactions between these meds and THH. I figured some of the experts on this board may be able to shed a little light on this subject, as I've hardly found any info on this in my own web & forum searches.

Any input that could be provided would be much appreciated, by both my buddy overseas, & myself.

Thanks in advance.

-flipdoubt

[bravedog]

THH is a MAOI though apparently not a powerful one, so could interact negatively with many things in a normal diet as well as meds. Web Search MAOI for specific contraindications. I don't think the specific meds you mention, except conceivably dxm and unsure about that and benadryl and soma, should be a problem, but no MAOI should ever be used without avoiding contraindicated substances as a potential for serious harm exists. Hope this helps.

[flipdoubt]

Thank you so much for your input on this. From what I've learned, THH is more than just your average MAOI, it's more specifically an RIMA, and has some SSRI action as well.

I'm hazarding a guess here, but I'm bettin that's why my buddy is interested in this one in particular, as it's a "lighter MAOI", & not as caustic as say, harmine or harmaline.

It would seem from further research that opiates, (with a few exceptions) don't have to much SSRI action that would interfere w/ an MAOIs actions. It would seem the same goes for valium & the rest of the benzo fam as well. (Sorry, no sources to cite).

I concur with your statement about DXM being a possible problem for my pal. I've read similar stuff about the "serotogenic"<sp?> activity that goes on with DXM use. Though from what he tells me, it's only something he uses infrequently & in low doses to temporarily lower his opiate tolerance.

If I was him, I'd be more concerned with the adderall xr, he should prob skip it that day... & maybe the day before that too.

Thanks again for the input, though. This is something I've already researched exhaustively, & continue to. The lengths one will go to for an old friend, ya know?

-fd

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for coming back with the information you've found.

[flipdoubt]

Just a quick update - I spoke with my buddy, (who's now living in Portugal) recently & I passed along what info I've learned on the boards & on the net in general. He's got no internet [?!] where he's currently located... not a bad trade off for having "cognitive liberty" in such a place.

Sounds like he's gonna stow it in the fridge for awhile for later experimentation. I told him that was prob a good idea... no need to rush such things, and agreed to continue researching it for him. He told me he's gonna try it by itself, and perhaps later use it in hopes it will orally activate DMT, w/o the drawbacks of the more harsh harmala alkaloids. [Damn, I gotta learn to speak Portuguese!]

I made him promise to call, or write me the next day with his findings. I'll be sure to pass the info along here, as I'm sure it can only be helpful.

I'm actually really glad he bugged me about this. It got me back in to posting on this board. I've been reading it for years & years, and have learned a lot of fantastic information from the community here. It's time I tried to give a lil' something back.

-fd