How does a meth addiction differ from an opioid addiction?

[kailey_elise]

To start off with, duh, I know they are entirely different drugs.

My question comes up because SIK's wife (who SIK is currently not living with, as she's working on the other side of the country) is a methamphetamine addict. SIK is an opioid addict (mainly heroin and methadone these days).

SIK understand what it's like to not have opioids (dopesickness, etc), but not really what it's like to not have stimulants. SIK had a stimulant problem as a youth (cocaine, adderall and methlyphenidate), but it was never a big deal if she didn't have them - perhaps a day or two of sleeping, that's about it. Ah, the ignorance of youth!

Anyway, SIK's wife has tried a few times to kick her habit. She even came back over to this side of the country to try to do it and just slept for a few days (of course, she was only here for a few days, so that sucked). She went to detox once and left the next day.

She's only recently coming to terms with the fact that her meth use is a "problem", so this is all par for the course as far as SIK is concerned.

As stated, SIK understands opioid withdrawal (all too well!); the sweating, the vomiting, the diarrhea, the hot and cold flashes, wanting to jump out of your skin, not sleeping and most of all, the horrible boredom and depression and bleakness of life without opioids.

How does this differ in a methamphetamine withdrawal? How long does it usually last and is there anything those around you can do to help? SIK would just like to be better prepared the next time her wife tries to kick, especially since she might actually be at her house at the time...

Thanks in advance for any help and advice...

~Kailey

Reputation Comments on this post:

SWIM has always wondered this too, good subject

[ex-junkie]

swim has been addicted to both opiates and methamphetamine. when you compare the two, methamphetamine addiction is a walk in the park. its more of a psychological addiction, and the only withdrawals are fatigue, extremely low energy levels that can last for months, feeling like youre not getting enough air when you breathe, and hunger. the most part is the "needing" to take methamphetamine just to get out of bed and get shit done- in the same sense that opiate addicts need opiates to sleep, but of course the exact flipside.

when you quit methamphetamines, youd expect to sleep alot for one-two weeks, eat a lot/put on lots of weight, be easily agitated, extremely depressed, most likely extremely paranoid, and have zero motivation to get anything done.

swim thinks some of the physical withdrawal is directly related to dehydration, low blood pressure caused from dehydration, and nutritional undernourishment.

swiys friend will just eat and sleep, then when shes over the tiredness, she will find herself extremely bored, unmotivated, very depressed. to help someone in her situation is hit and miss, but if you make meals for them and dont burden them with housework, then for that first couple of weeks they will eat and then go back to sleep.

its a hard one because its all inside your head, but swim supposes swiy could be encouraging, and be prepared for some crabby mood swings. just dont react when shes in a foul mood, because it will do more harm than good. unless of course she does something bad enough to warrant a bad reaction from swiy.

goodluck.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good, informative response.
	good description, informative
	Good Response! -- Accurate!

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

methamphetamine addiction is a walk in the park.

While SWIM agrees that (meth)amphetamine addictions easier to "beat" than opioid addiction, SWIM would NOT say it is a walk in the park. SWIM struggles everyday about amphetamine, dreaming about it, thinking about it, wanting it, etc. once you get past the physical withdrawal of an opioid it feels like it is over, with amphetamines, IMHO, you think about it everyday.

[Moonage Daydream]

Could not agree more but then swim has a hell of a lot more experience with amphetamine addiction than opiates. Absolutely ages ago when she was 20 (ok so that was 13 years ago but seems like a different person doing it, frankly) she had a 6 month situation she calls the Chinese Takeaway Experiment (there was a Chinese takeaway near her friend's place called Chasing Dragon, groan;-(
Anyway with hindsight she pulled herself out before she was properly hooked...this was cheap heroin with a number of free additions cheap and nasty downers kindly furnished by dealer... So swim is not sure if she is really qualified to talk about this from experience but she is much more attached to speed in that she associates positive things/activities with it. Downers to her are depression drugs but that is just her opnion. So therefore it was relatively easy to detach herself from them psychologically as she sort of hated herself more for doing them, rightly or wrongly.

Nevertheless, the image of walking outside her flat in Manchester in minus 8C in a minidress whilst withdrawing does stick in the memory...

Think what the cat is trying to say in her long way is that the difference can lie in how much importance you attach to that particular drug, regardless of whether it is psychologically addictive or physically

Hope some of this babble makes sense! One annoying thing is that while swim has learned to curb the urge to chat incessantly to people "in real life" the same is sadly not the case when typing oh dear! Well that manic hyperbrain has to flow out somewhere

[xxdan123xx]

Swim has heavy experience with heroin being current addict. He also has fairly extensive experience with amph. The amph is pure and injected. Any way as far as addiction heroin is king. The first thing he must do every morning is shoot heroin. Amph is an afterthough and he can go weeks without. The thing about amph is once swiy get going its hard to stop.. meaning staying awake for days constantly redosing to hold off the crash. While with heroin swiy can go on forever fighing off that crash meaning withdrawls. With uppers the crash must come at somepoint.

[Hollow Hippie]

SWIM thinks different types of individuals will have different severity of addictions to either opioids or amphetamines, SWIM likes to be full of energy and perform tasks like an efficient machine, SWIM does not really like being numbed from reality.

[Moonage Daydream]

My cheetah agrees with hollow hippie. It is a matter of your "core personality" as I believe trick cyclists would call it (slang for shrink in England). For example, both my friend the lion and the cheetah have naturally "speedy" personalities with high levels of mental energy. The lion likes to smoke so he can slow down, whereas the cheetah likes to enhance an already energetic personality. Also the cheetah likes to make collages and paint with her paws, and she found that amphetamine suited her better where sustained creativity is concerned. Yeah she made things on downers too but not as often and not in a good mood.
So weirdly, the cat purrs that, while she acknowledges that opiates are way more addictive, she finds that uppers mesh more with her personality, and she is happier and more fulfilled. So therefore she has a much harder time giving them up.
This is because she was depressed when she was on downers, and she got way too skinny (6 and a half stone which is 91 pounds - horrific considering that the smallest she has been on speed is 125.
It takes a lot to put the cat off her food, which again demonstrates that she wanted to escape from life instead of enhance it.
Yeah it is far from ideal to have a controlled, but none the less habitual, amphetamine situation but it is the better by far of the two.
Having said that, she has known a few people who managed to be productive, go to work, etc etc on various downers so really one can't generalise.
After all human beings are bloody complicated as it is, chemically altered or otherwise!

Moonage Daydream added 4 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...

Also she feels *normal* on speed and she didn't on heroin and has to confess that she doesn't on non speed days... but that is the nature of the beast of course

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by Moonage Daydream

This is because she was depressed when she was on downers, and she got way too skinny (6 and a half stone which is 91 pounds - horrific considering that the smallest she has been on speed is 125.

Here is an email message SWIM has received from his good pal Bob Dole regarding weight with uppers and downers.

Dear SWIY,

I have also noticed similar things regarding weight with speed and such that you described in your earlier emails SWIY. On downers I lost weight, felt crappy about myself and did not bother much to eat a decent meal, as I would become horrifically lethargic along with that oh so fun full blown amnesia with certain downers. On amphetamine I have noticed a somewhat paradoxical reaction, I have gained weight (which I really did need badly, I have a hyper metabolism so I was always underweight now I am normal weight), I gained 20 or so pounds of healthy weight on amphetamine. Also, I feel more calm on a moderate dose of good speed than on some sort of benzo, which causes me to feel dulled inside along with dsyphoria, or a drink or two of alcohol. I know addiction is not a good thing with any drug, but I feel that at least with an amphetamine addiction I have some capability to be somewhat productive (at least while I am on, there is always a down side), at least more so than the food junkie or run of the mill alcoholic, well you have a good day SWIY!

Signed Your Friend,
Bob Dole

P.S. Got wood? Cause I think I have some extra Viagra.

[beentheredonethatagain]

they are two completly different types of addiction at work here.
Meth as addicting as it seems to be , is only mental addiction.

Opiates are in the class of physical addiction.


by no way are they the same, no matter your values or moral fiber.

meth is a stop anytime and not go thru actual physical withdraw sickness ( malise )

try that with opiates and you will have to be prepared for a fight of your life, the grip the drug has on you physically , made you a dependant to the point of its importance for oxygen, and substance like food.

meth addicts can be out of dope and if they go and get busy or distracted from the usual routine , they never notice those hours or days as pain, or even discomfort.

[ex-junkie]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

meth is a stop anytime and not go thru actual physical withdraw sickness ( malise )


meth addicts can be out of dope and if they go and get busy or distracted from the usual routine , they never notice those hours or days as pain, or even discomfort.

swim disagrees. there is a physical withdrawal. albeit it nowhere near as severe as opiate withdrawal, there is still one nonetheless. its pretty much the exact opposite of an opiate withdrawal. massive amounts of sleep- school, work and everyday life is affected by this because they cant stay awake for long periods of time for a couple of weeks, constipation that can last up to ten days or even more in some cases, (now imagine all the food you just cant stop cramming into your gut, and you cant shit. it makes you feel pretty crap), extreme hunger, depression, etc. theres simply no energy.

also, meth addicts do notice the discomfort. no amount of distraction will detract from that for the first couple of weeks. afterwards yes, but for that first couple of weeks youre pretty much fucked.

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

swim disagrees. there is a physical withdrawal. albeit it nowhere near as severe as opiate withdrawal, there is still one nonetheless. its pretty much the exact opposite of an opiate withdrawal. massive amounts of sleep- school, work and everyday life is affected by this because they cant stay awake for long periods of time for a couple of weeks, constipation that can last up to ten days or even more in some cases, (now imagine all the food you just cant stop cramming into your gut, and you cant shit. it makes you feel pretty crap), extreme hunger, depression, etc. theres simply no energy.

also, meth addicts do notice the discomfort. no amount of distraction will detract from that for the first couple of weeks. afterwards yes, but for that first couple of weeks youre pretty much fucked.

In SWIM's opioin, the fact that their is so little physical addiction risk, makes it even harder to quit because you often lead yourself into denial and say "well my body is not complaining, so it is not really a problem" or it can make it so much easier to binge on then something that has rough withdrawal, SWIM just gets sleepy, fatigued (physically and mentally), irritable, hungry and a little delusion, not too much different then being out of shape and lazy, which many have expeirence with.

Reputation Comments on this post:

okay now this is a valid statement, it is easier to justify , no big deal thou, as far the actual withdrawing , we ar...

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by ex-junkie

swim disagrees. there is a physical withdrawal. albeit it nowhere near as severe as opiate withdrawal, there is still one nonetheless. its pretty much the exact opposite of an opiate withdrawal. massive amounts of sleep- school, work and everyday life is affected by this because they cant stay awake for long periods of time for a couple of weeks, constipation that can last up to ten days or even more in some cases, (now imagine all the food you just cant stop cramming into your gut, and you cant shit. it makes you feel pretty crap), extreme hunger, depression, etc. theres simply no energy.

also, meth addicts do notice the discomfort. no amount of distraction will detract from that for the first couple of weeks. afterwards yes, but for that first couple of weeks youre pretty much fucked.

the cold sweats, joint , nerve, muscles, burning pains, extreme amount of vomit, shakes like a paint mixer, screaming from a place that is wall to wall padding and straps on your bed.

can meth do that?

[VashYsk]

Originally Posted by beentheredonethatagain

they are two completly different types of addiction at work here.
Meth as addicting as it seems to be , is only mental addiction.

It is both, yeah it is in your head but what is causing that is because of what's in your head(physically). Amphetamines force dopamine onto the dopamine receptors in your brain, dopamine is the reward/pleasure neurotransmitter in the brain, so things like sex, chocolate, other fatty but sweet foods, anything you can do that is good will use dopamine so you can feel pleasure from it. At first it sounds awesome until you realize that the dopamine receptors aren't Superman and can only take so much so you keep damaging them more and more and finally for someone who has been doing it a long time and doing a lot it becomes impossible for them to feel pleasure anymore without meth.

A purely psychological addiction is more like a crack head chasing the high trying to get the same feeling they got off their first really good crack rock. Just because you don't get sick doesn't mean that something inside your body is thrown off because of the drug and the body is trying to readjust itself. Its like saying radio waves don't exist because I can't see them. And depression is a serious medical condition(a.k.a. sickness) as well as fatigue.

Also I've never heard of mental addictions causing withdrawals(things that happen when you stop taking the drug like getting sick, getting really hungry, getting depressed for a reason besides just not having the drug, fatigue, ect.) We get it that your drug is really hardcore and can be really bad, in the short term at least. Meth addiction sets in longer because you need the regular damage to the dopamine receptors but once it starts it can get worse fast and repairing things always takes much much longer than it did to break them. Meth addicts who stop after 6 months can take up to a year after they last stopped using it to start having the dopamine receptors in your brain repaired and just think that whole time if you cave once to the cravings you just fucked yourself over. And I said up to a year to start seeing improvements, it could take another year to return to normal before they did amphetamines. I'd much rather deal with the withdrawals of heroin for the short period of time rather than something like that.

But still I'd have to agree with Hollow Hippie, this all depends on a million different factors, everyone's body reacts differently to things, their diet, their lifestyle, the thought processes, background, environment, everything basically. SWIM for example has been doing amphetamines for well over a year, regularly, and notices nothing besides being hungry more often when he doesn't take them for a day or even up to more than a month, or the fact SWIM can easily fall asleep after smoking meth(within 5 minutes of it, not on purpose it just made SWIM sleepy like it normally does and SWIM couldn't fight it) or has been eating food while smoking meth. A lot of the effects SWIM gets from amphetamines are very different from a normal person which just goes to show you drugs affect everyone differently in a noticeable or unnoticeable way and the way you react to not having them is no exception to that. So its useless trying to compare them

But if you must you could say

Meth Addiction
Long term recovery
Little to no pleasure or happiness during recovery
High chance of relapse throughout recovery and a good chance of it even afterwards

Heroin Addiction
Short term recovery
Horrible withdrawal sickness
High chance of relapse until withdrawal symptoms subside

Other people who have experienced one or the other since SWIM never experienced meth addiction and if SWIM could have it it would have happened during the first year of chronic use which SWIM is past and SWIM has never done heroin

[Moonage Daydream]

Originally Posted by VashYsk

But if you must you could say

Meth Addiction
Long term recovery
Little to no pleasure or happiness during recovery
High chance of relapse throughout recovery and a good chance of it even afterwards

Heroin Addiction
Short term recovery
Horrible withdrawal sickness
High chance of relapse until withdrawal symptoms subside

Other people who have experienced one or the other since SWIM never experienced meth addiction and if SWIM could have it it would have happened during the first year of chronic use which SWIM is past and SWIM has never done heroin

This is very well summarised, makes a whole lot of sense.
SWIM also eats on speed (your "English" speed which is to say Amphetamine without the meth)
She could not eat to save her life when first she tried it nine years back. But through very regular use (not daily but at least three times per week) she has started to override the appetite suppression feature. It's still true she eats less than when not on speed, but oddly she is sensitive to the stimulant effects still but not the anorexic ones... Although she moans about it internally SWIM is glad she is morbidly obese by speed freak standards ie 135 pounds... looks convincingly healthy for deceit purposes...went from 148 to 98 in 6 months on downers, rather odd considering that she did very little exercise during this time and now has to exercise to avoid jitters...
Kitty has tried meth but it is hard to get in the UK, she is glad as she liked it to an alarming degree when she tried it in America a couple of times when staying with other cats (swiy can take that in Keith Richards or feline sense)
In March the cheetah *celebrated* her fourth anniversary of speeding...

[yaba]

Only had a quick look at this tread.. Swim been addicted to both (not at the same time) And found his yaba addiction the hardest to kick psychological and heroine more physical.

But over all swim thinks yaba is the worse ! Also with meth (yaba) he kept on being motivated to make money ! Followed by 3/4 days of sleep and eat then sleep again eat again, over and over again... (so not spending a lot of money) While on heroine it was just getting money for the next smoke (fix) and that was it ! And it was done by all means necessary including stealing of family and shoplifting burglaries, etc..

Think the meth heads got more of a drive to make money, while heroine addicts loose the motivation.

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by yaba

Think the meth heads got more of a drive to make money, while heroine addicts loose the motivation.

Kind of goes back to what SWIM was saying, everyone is different and everyone becomes addicted to different drugs for very varied reasons.

[ex-junkie]

it was very hard to come to terms with the putting on of weight and low self esteem. if it werent for those aspects, then she would have found it easier to quit. when she came off opiates, she lost ten kilos and looked great.

[Moonage Daydream]

the total absence of motivation to do anything at all was very upsetting for the cat when she gave up speed (only tod do it again later ho hum) Also in both cases the terrible debilitating depression after the initial withdrawal is not to be underestimated.
Though kitty must stress that she has a total of six years of amphetamine addiction (nine years with a total of three years off) and only half a year on downers.
So arguably she was not fully hooked so was able to kick it with large amounts of willpower. It was physically unpleasant but not unbearable. As William Burroughs wrote (and lets face it, he ought to have known) it takes a surprisingly long time to get properly addicted to heroin and other downers... she would concur from her very limited experience. The notion of one try and you're instantly addicted is just media hysteria of course. (And Prof M Daydream is off again lecturing to the already knowledgeable converted oh dear!;-)
She was also more disgusted with herself for doing it in a way she just isn't with speed.
She actually worked really hard on her studies on h but everything else went to hell, whereas on speed she is totally functional though prone to anxiety. Trouble is when not on speed (a few days later, not instantly) she behaves sulkily and anxiously in a way which is more noticeable than when she is quite wired but oddly calm... but then that's fake calm caused by satisfaction of a perceived need...

[Moonage Daydream]

the total absence of motivation to do anything at all was very upsetting for the cat when she gave up speed (only tod do it again later ho hum) Also in both cases the terrible debilitating depression after the initial withdrawal is not to be underestimated.
Though kitty must stress that she has a total of six years of amphetamine addiction (nine years with a total of three years off) and only half a year on downers.
So arguably she was not fully hooked so was able to kick it with large amounts of willpower. It was physically unpleasant but not unbearable. As William Burroughs wrote (and lets face it, he ought to have known) it takes a surprisingly long time to get properly addicted to heroin and other downers... she would concur from her very limited experience. The notion of one try and you're instantly addicted is just media hysteria of course. (And Prof M Daydream is off again lecturing to the already knowledgeable converted oh dear!;-)
She was also more disgusted with herself for doing it in a way she just isn't with speed.
She actually worked really hard on her studies on h but everything else went to hell, whereas on speed she is totally functional though prone to anxiety. Trouble is when not on speed (a few days later, not instantly) she behaves sulkily and anxiously in a way which is more noticeable than when she is quite wired but oddly calm... but then that's fake calm caused by satisfaction of a perceived need...

Moonage Daydream added 3 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

sorry for repetition computer is so slow don't know how to delete post>?

[Moonage Daydream]

yeah swim is now dropping to bmi 23 on the abject stress diet (external non speed related worry)0

[kailey_elise]

Originally Posted by Moonage Daydream

yeah swim is now dropping to bmi 23 on the abject stress diet (external non speed related worry)0

Ah, the old standby diet!

Everyone asked how my eldeest cat lost weight; I explained she wasn't living at home for a while and didn't eat hella lot and was constantly under extreme stress during that time period. *rolls eyes*

However, she hasn't really put much on since being back home and living a much lower stress lifestyle. Hmm. She's normally a reasonably curvy feline, but currently is still very trim, though her teats are now the same size and fullness/heaviness they usually are at her normal, (slightly over-)weight. Go figure. Good thing I never got her those implants she's always wanted, since she now doesn't need them! Heh.

~Kailey

[ex-junkie]

^lmao. swim had no tits when she was on meth either- or heroin at that. she also had eyes on implants.

its so nice to have the one defining that "makes" a womans appearance(!)


*well it doesnt "define" it as such, but it definitely made swim feel less of a woman without them if that makes sense.

[Moonage Daydream]

makes total sense. The cheetah had hips which could be used as spare coathangers on traditional *English* speed ie amphetamine not true now tho as more *sensible* about it though still dependent as is evidenced by current withdrawal bad temper can't concentrate mode...

[ex-junkie]

true that. swim remembers thinking she was fat whenever she got to 54kg. or whenever the hip bones got covered by flesh. :/

swim doesnt know what she weighs now tbh. she would estimate 56-57kg, with a 165cm height. quite a reasonable weight, especially considering shes turning 30 this year.

;semi-cringe:

[Moonage Daydream]

at 67 kilos this cat really is somewhat plump, though really only a fraction. This makes the prospect of quitting just that bit scarier, as if she is that size (english size 12, 7-8 in usa, god knows what in oz) when she does speed she hates to think how big she could become without...
of course given that she has given up three times, and put on shedloads each time, there was a higher number to come back from each time. Last time she went all the way up to 74kg, horrific.
She feels churlish for caring as her body works (other than anaemia which means its spinach and greens for tea again)
But having said all that she would rather be paradoxically mildly chubby (but actually still medically alright) and have an active, varied life than be skinny but have only one focus - as was the case when briefly ensnared in downers and at the worst point of speed addiction.
So swim is in an odd position of having a tightly controlled, but still habitual use of speed, with some occasional bad eating habits (that is after use of speed of course, not at the same time!) So she is being quite sensible within the limits of irresponsible behaviour, a strange and contradictory place to be at times