Effects - Which narcotic for migraine relief?

[SunnyHours]

SWIM suffers from debilitating migraines and he's looking for fun and relief...
SWIM was recently prescribed 30 pills of 50mg Demerol (meperidine/pethidine)
after about 5 migraines/5 50mg doses in 2 weeks SWIM had to up his Demerol dose for relief to 100mg. (350mg for fun...scared of those toxic metabolites)
SWIM is wondering what else he could take? He tried percocet but he seemed to have a really high tolerance to those...40mg with almost no effect.
SWIM is thinking morphine, maybe Dilaudid (hydromorphone). SWIM is wondering about ROA and dosages and the fun factor? Which would provide him with the best relief and the most "fun"?
Other suggestions are also appreciated...
By the way SWIM has tried anti-depressant, anti-seizures, anti-histamines. And he can't take Beta Blockers because of paast asthma problems...

[SullyGuy]

Originally Posted by SunnyHours

SWIM suffers from debilitating migraines and he's looking for fun and relief...

Psilocybin Mushrooms. They're fantastic for it. Cured SWIM's exercise headaches brought on by effexor withdrawal!

Check it out!
And again!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	useful answer, provided references
	Someone had to say it :) True too

[SunnyHours]

I don't think SWIMs doctor is gonna prescribe "shrooms"... Thanks though but SWIM is looking for legal substances. Opiates are usually his DOC...

[thebige]

swim sees many chronic migraine sufferers here in the US getting prescribed Vicodin for migrains...........
There are a few new non-narcotic medications being prescribed............guess it depends on the doctor........
In both coses try to hit the migraine with meds as soon as it stared coming on(so swim has heard )for the best effectiveness..........
Also make sure your doctors keeps looking for a possible cause for the migraines,swim has a friend that found her migraines were resolved with high blood pressure med Atenolol...............
In swim experience Oxycontin does not seem to help swim with headaches or a toothache,but swim has been given morphine IV (in a hospital setting....ER)...........to break a severe headache
I'm sure others here can help.....

[SunnyHours]

SWIM tried all Triptans and NSAIDs and a lot of blood pressure meds...
He's just desperate to find relief without having to up the dose, he doesn't want to get addicted.
Narcotics are his last chance to help him

[mickey_bee]

Swim too used to suffer from intense, 12-14hr vomitathon migraines.
They've mostly subsided now, but swim found naratriptan to be extremely effective if taken early enough-if taken when the migraine has properly taken hold it was of no use however.

As for during the migraine, you really need the strongest painkiller you can get, which for me was heroin. It certainly worked a charm, however it does have the downside-effect of addiction. Not really worth it on balance......

[Mikeymc]

I take oxycodone(percocet) for mine...but since you have a high tolerance have you tried hydrocodone at all?

[SunnyHours]

no SWIM is in Canada and we don't have vicodin and the like...
Sadly. SWIM tried:
IV Morphine (hospital) Great relief
Oxycodone (Percocet) No relief
Meperidine/pethidine (Demerol) Great relief but tolerance builds fast
Codeine (Tylenol 3,Tylenol 4) Mild relief

Wants to try:
Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)
Oxymorphone (Opana)
Hydrocodone (Vicodin)

What else could SWIM try?
SWIM needs feed back Thank SWIY

[Master_Khan]

Originally Posted by SunnyHours

no SWIM is in Canada and we don't have vicodin and the like...

Interesting...why no Hydrocodone? Oh well, you guys have all the BC bud so it works itself out I guess.

[Mikeymc]

In swims experience and in reading through many posts throughout this forum there seems to be a large amount of people who respond/or prefer either hydrocodone or oxycodone better. Swim personally always felt like hydrocodone took my pain away faster and felt stronger than oxycodone. Now a question I have for you, hydrocodone cant be gotten anywhere in Canada? That seems slightly bizarre. I wonder why?

[SunnyHours]

it can but it seems like it's not popular...there is no formulations with APAP or ASA. It's usually prescribed as an anti-tussive and available as cough syrup or in pill form with nothing else but hydrocodone...
SWIM will try to get a tester (whatever else he gives me to try out) with his normal Demerol prescription...

[Master_Khan]

Originally Posted by SunnyHours

it can but it seems like it's not popular......

Then it must be a well kept secret because hydrocodone very good ting mon.

[pinksox]

Which Triptans has SWIY tried? Any of the newer ones like Maxalt sublingual? Personally, SWIM loves Maxalt...and she'd been sworn off triptans for years after a bad reaction to Imitrex.

Failing triptans, ergots would be a possibility...(Wigraine, Ergomar,and Cafergot) or dihydroergotamine preparations (Migranal, DHE-45).

SWIY could also try Midrin--a combination of isometheptene (a blood vessel constrictor), acetaminophen (a pain reliever), and dichloralphenazone (a mild sedative).

As far as narcotics go. If SWIY really doesn't want to get "addicted" have they tried preparations like Stadol(butorphanol bitartrate). It comes in a nasal spray. Taste horrible, but works quickly and has both agonist and antagonistic properties.

Using short-acting opies frequently is a pretty common mode of becoming addicted.

[Greenport]

Heh well, it is well-known and documented that many of the active substituted indole/tryptamine structures (including ergolines) can cure cluster headaches. Sumatriptan (Imitrex) is one of the more common ones used, but it is also known that both LSD and psilocybin mushrooms can prevent cluster headaches from happening for months after even a single dose.

This is probably true as well with migraines. Unfortunately as swiY mentioned a doctor is not going to prescribe these things to swiY...they are illegal and in today's world if caught, swiY might have a bit of trouble explaining to the courts that it was for self-medicinal use (although it would be quite a good trial!)

As far as headaches in general go, excedrin works wonders. The caffeine helps to dilate blood vessels in the brain allowing for better blood-flow, while the acetaminophen/aspirin work to reduce the pain threshold. Whether this would help in a migraine, swiM's mermaid don't really know since she don't have em herself.

The problem with using opiates and other painkillers to lessen the pain though, is that they only work temporarily and they have health hazards of their own. Be careful before considering using an opiate (or any drug for that matter) in relation to swiY's migraines.

[helikophis]

Originally Posted by pinksox

Which Triptans has SWIY tried? Any of the newer ones like Maxalt sublingual? Personally, SWIM loves Maxalt...and she'd been sworn off triptans for years after a bad reaction to Imitrex.

Ugh, Imitrex. My friend who gets migraines insisted that Imitrex was "much worse than the headache" - and the friend had some pretty intense, long-lasting migraines. That stuff was discontinued very quickly!!

On the other hand, he has found eletriptan (Relpax) plus naproxen (or ibuprofen, if naproxen isn't available), taken at the onset of the incident, to be highly effective. Failing that, he just uses codeine. It doesn't really take away the pain, but it helps with sleep, which seems to generally make things easier.

He also suggests not rejecting the psilocybin suggestion out-of-hand. It may be currently illegal, but it is under investigation for migraine treatment, and it looks like it might be very effective. Compounds related to LSD are currently commonly prescribed for migraine, and LSD has been used as well. Some sources have suggested that psilocybin may prove to be significantly more effective than the ergotamines.

[pinksox]

Yeah. Swimmy HATED Imitrex. Every time she took it, she got this horrible tightness in her throat and felt like she was gonna die for the first 20 minutes or so. However, it was somewhat effect and she was an undergrad at the time and couldn't afford to be out of commission for day on end. Imitrex was finally stopped after a particularly horrible reaction.

Swimmy didn't take any triptans since she stopped Imitrex in '99. Upon the insistence of her current PCP, she agreed to try Maxalt. Somewhat suspicious--and being very occasionally prone to panic attacks--she split the dose into quarters and tried a bit at a time. It worked. So she uses that now and it's effective about 90% of the time IF she takes it before things get too ramped up.

The thing about ergotamines is they're faily tough on the circulatory system and not really safe for anyone with cardiac issues or even hypertension.

Swimmy doesn't know enough to make any intelligent, informed comments about psilocybins...but is interested to see what develops in that arena.

The problem with using opiates and other painkillers to lessen the pain though, is that they only work temporarily and they have health hazards of their own. Be careful before considering using an opiate (or any drug for that matter) in relation to swiY's migraines.

Not to mention the all-too-common occurance of rebound headaches secondary to short-acting opiate use.

Swimmy started her downward spiral into opiate addiction by using short-acting opies for migraines. Swimmy thinks a LOT of people have gotten themselves into trouble this way before they even knew what was going on.

[SunnyHours]

SWIM tried the following meds;

NSAIDs:
Acetaminophen/Paracetamol (Tylenol,COX inhibitor not NSAID)
Acetylsalicylic Acid (Aspirin)
Ibuprofen (Advil/Motrin)
Naproxyn (Aleve,Anaprox)
Ketarolac (Toradol)
Diclofenac (Voltaren)


Triptan:
Sumatriptan (Imitrex, the only effective without negative side-effects)
Rizatriptan (Maxalt)
Naratriptan (Amerge)
Zolmitriptan (Zomig)
Eletriptan (Relpax)
Almotriptan (Axert)
All triptan to the exception of Frovatriptan (Frova)

Other Meds:
Pizotifen (Sandomigran)
Amitriptyline (Elavil, reduced the number of migraines per week)
Citalopram (Celexa)
Mirtazepine (Remeron)
Trazodone (Desyrel)
Mixed Amphetamines Salts (Adderall)
Dextro Amphetamines (Dexedrine)
Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
Clonazepam (Klonopin,Rivotril)
Divalproex (Depakote)
Topiramate (Topamax)

Narcotics:
Codeine (Tylenol 3, Tylenol 4, third most effective)
Oxycodone (Percocet, didn't do anything)
Meperidine/Pethidine (Demerol, second most effective)
Morphine IV (in hospital,most effective)

That's what SWIM remembers from the top of his head...

[pinksox]

If Imitrex sorta works for SWIY, Swimmy thinks using that and giving Stadol nasal spray a go is worth a shot.

[SunnyHours]

SWIM wants to enjoy too...after all the pain he goes through he should be allowed to have a little fun...there would at least be an advantage to having migraines. This why SWIM is looking for Narcotics...something he can enjoy more than anything else is the narcs apart from sex

[pinksox]

Trust SWIM.

Stadol WILL mess one up, LOL. It works fast and hits like a ton of bricks. And, it's antagonistic properties may help SWIY in the long run.

The first time Swimmy used this med, she stared at a dot on the wall until she finally shook her head and herself out of it 45 minutes later.

Just be careful with the Vics..and short-acting opies in general. Many, many people, SWIM included, have started down the path to addiction looking for solutions for legitimate problems.

Problem here is, the more one ones opies for recreational purposes, the less effective they tend to be for the medical reasons SWIY needs them. Which results in larger doses, increased receptors, and then needing even larger doses to get that same rec "feel" and back to square one where pain is concerned. It's a vicous freakin' cycle.

There's a lot of study going on recently about low-dose antagonistic meds making opies more effective in the long run. Here, check this out:
http://www.prohealth.com/migraine/li...fm?libid=14502

[vapulas_ghost]

swim thinks that demerol is THE BEST narc EVER. swims dad has migraines and takes them when he has bad ones, but swim usually takes 100mg of dem to get messed up :P

[emptyjug]

hi, i have had chronic daily migraines since birth. i do not know what you have tried or if opiates are all that you are interested in. i see a pain management doctor after many years of inadequate and often upsetting treatment. demerol is only effective for migraines as im injectable. taking tablets is ineffective as when having a migraine attack you gi tack stops functioning. that is why it is so difficult to maintain hydration and often oral medication seems to not alleviate pain.
when i began i started with codeine, then fiornal (which worked quite well), then percocets, demerol, dilaudid, morphine, injections, fentanyl etc. i have finally found combo that works for me. you will have to attempt the same. i even get botox. it takes a long time to find meds that will give you adequate pain relief. you have to willing to try them all and not be afraid to admit when they dod and do not work. not every medication works 100% of the time.
try keeping a pain chart. it will help when you see the doctor to convice them to try other meds.
dont forget that with migraines you need to take meds for prevention, attack abortion and pain management. you cannot solely rely on narcotics.

[pixplzthx]

Can you get DLPA in Canada (at a health store or online)? It stands for D/L (think "Right/Left" ) Phenylalanine. It is an amino acid that provides a number of functions that I could bore you with (or you could look them up) that is pretty well known to assist with pain. It's an "Essential Acid" simply meaning your body doesn't make it for you and needs outside help.

I started taking it about a year ago when I had migraines (basilar with aura) every other week. Slowly, with no other treatment, the migraines went to monthly, then occasionally and then not at all.

Of course, if you're just looking for a reason to get narcotics, however....

(I jest, really).

Play with Google on the subject for thirty minutes or so. You might be surprised.

(HOWEVER, if you have PKU issues and if you do, you know you do, steer clear.)

[Lady Codone]

You can't really go wrong with most opiates, but some are obviously stronger than others.

SWIM would suggest something that effects the body first and the mind second, like poppy tea, morphine, and some of the other more heavy, sedating ones before things like oxycodone, which gives SWIM more of a mental/emotional effect than killing pain.

Outside of opiates, you could always try some potent marijuana, preferably of the indica variety. It's great for relieving pain and aiding sleep, and has been prescribed for migraines specifically. If I were SWIY, I'd try to figure out the CAUSE of your migraines, as they're not a normal state of being. Some foods--chocolate, caffeine, and several others--are known triggers, and food allergies/sensitivities can directly affect the brain, causing everything from headaches to depression and anxiety in many people. (About 92% of all people show sensitivities to at least one food item, and usually more).

You could also try a combo of an opiate, marijuana, and herbal remedies like ginger, cayenne pepper, or garlic, which improve circulation and open blood vessels. I can imagine that a benzo or muscle relaxer could also help relieve some of the pressure and tension, though it's not wise to mix them with opiates.

[SunnyHours]

SWIM actually has success with Demerol when the Imitrex fails...he's just looking for another opiate to alternate with so not to get accustomed to the Demerol (by the end of the month he needs 100mg instead of 50mg).

Candidates are:
Oxycodone w/ APAP (Percocet, Endocet, Oxycocet, PMS oxycodone/acetaminophen)
Oxycodone w/Ibuprofen (Combunox)
Oxycodone (Supeudol 10mg)
Morphine (MSIR, Statex, Doloral, Ratio-Morphine)
Hydrocodone (Hycodan) Canadian version is Hydrocodone ONLY
Hydromorphone (Dilaudid, PMS-Hydromorphone)

SWIM would love to dream and add Dilaudid HP and Morphine HP even if he never injected before, he's sure it's really effective .

Please post with your choice which brand SWIM should choose. Thanks SWIY!