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  #1  
Old 01-05-2009, 21:39
baron samedi baron samedi is offline
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Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

For those who do not know the meaning of Anhedonia, it basically means a loss of the ability to feel pleasure. There are probably other terms that could also be used, like dysphoria or blunting of affect, but this is the term which most accurately describes what SWIM is on about. It is a very common symptom of both depression and schizophrenia (SWIM has had diagnosis of both so it's hard to tell from which angle this problem arises).
SWIM developed mental health problems from experimenting with LSD. It's a cliche, but he literally has never felt the same since. Within the myriad of different symptoms he's experienced, this is the one that has really dogged him since then (13 years and counting). Everything that he ever enjoyed or derived pleasure from has never felt the same since then, from reading a book to listening to music to smoking a cigarette to having a drink. This has lead him to self-medicate with a variety of illegal drugs without ever really finding a psychiatric drug that works for him in its own right.
Anti-psychotics can work for some people, but never have for him, if anything made things worse in this respect. The only AD which has shown real promise for him was Venlafaxine/Effexor, but he wasted that chance by continuing to smoke dope all day, every day. He now takes Paroxetine/Seroxat/Paxil but is unsure how affective it is, as he's been taking opiates/opioids pretty much every day while being on it.
His question is, does anyone know which anti-depressant(s) are most effective in combatting this symptom? He feels his only chance of leaving illegal drugs behind is if he can find a legal medication which allows him to feel the sort of natural pleasure he used to experience. He has read that SSRI's, atypical anti-depressants and tricyclics can all help in this regard. Wellbutrin seems to have potential because it increases levels of the "pleasure chemical", dopamine, in the brain. However given that there is a psychotic element to SWIM's problems as well, maybe it would have drawbacks for him. Can anyone be of help with this particular symptom?
  #2  
Old 01-05-2009, 21:47
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

SWIM considers himself anhedonic. He feels only superficial distraction as "entertainment" (or more like "alleviation"), and anything close to a nascent, genuinely positive emotion or appreciation of beauty is immediately cut off by residual horrible feelings. Without drugs he gets no pleasure from anything, not even sex really, and doesn't care about anything. He was this way since he attained consciousness. He's developed certain emotional/psychological coping skills that are a mess of complexity, and allow him to appear normal and function normal (if he wants, which he doesn't anymore), but these are completely superficial.

SWIM has tried every anti-depressant (anti-psychotic, and ADD drugs/amphetamines) that came out between 14 to 4 years ago. Nothing worked. Heroin is the only thing that made SWIM feel "normal" about life. Other solutions to feel pleasure which do not have the long term potential of heroin were ecstasy, and sometimes mushrooms, and to a tiny extant coke/crack.

Hopefully SWIY is different.
  #3  
Old 01-05-2009, 21:54
baron samedi baron samedi is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

SWIdyingtomorrow sounds very similar to SWIM in the way that he self-medicates with illegals to combat his anhedonia. Sad that no AD's have ever worked for SWIY.
Did this symptom develop over time with SWIY or has SWIY always felt like this? The first 19 or so years of SWIM's life seem like neverending bliss compared to the following 13. He hates it when he is told by health workers that everyone has ups and downs. What, for 13 years?
  #4  
Old 03-05-2009, 15:27
Abider Abider is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

SWIM has also a polytox past.
Now he has switched to natural substances.

He is trying now ST johns Wort day 3 .
Hyperforin the main ingredient of SJW increases almost all levels
of neurotransmitters (Serotonine, Dopamine, GABA ) and this makes it really
hot, because there is now other substance which does so.
But there (in Germany) is much rubbish on the market , SWIM buys pills which contain between 3-6 percent hyperforin. SWIM takes 3 a day of them, and this means about 80 mg hyperforin. SWIM is very curious how it will work (it takes 1-3 weeks to kick in ) , but he thinks that this is the righ for him, because it does not influence just one , or two neurotransmitter , but more than 4 (Ritalin for example influences 2 neurotransmitters , SSRI just one , Trizyklics 2 ) . And with the pills , he buys he can dose exactly.

Last edited by Jatelka; 04-05-2009 at 06:09.
  #5  
Old 03-05-2009, 17:04
baron samedi baron samedi is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

Quote:
SWIM has also a polytox past.
Could SWIY explain this phrase?
The one AD which SWIM has ever noticed a real improvement in his anhedonia was Venlafaxine/Effexor XR. He believes this also acts on 3 neurotransmitters (serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine). The higher the dose the more neurotransmitters it works on. He's been off it for 9 months or so now, and wonders if going back onto it is his only answer.
St John's Wort sounds interesting from SWIY's description though. SWIM has always assumed that it would only be affective in the treatment of mild/moderate depression, while a drug like effexor is used for treatment resistant depression. Maybe he should discuss it with his doc though.
  #6  
Old 03-05-2009, 22:52
Abider Abider is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

Quote:
Could SWIY explain this phrase?
It means that SWIM took a lot of synthetic-pharmaceutical stuff, how prescipted and often not how prescripted, for example , when he should take 2
30 mg XR Ritalin pills , he took sometimes 10 a day , or more
the same with amphetamines...(in Germany the chemistry`s must prodcuce them )

Now he is off the stuff and is switching to SJW ..now day 3 .. and he is thinking its starting, he must emphasize that he takes pills which are guaranted that they contain al least 3 percent of hyperforin .. and he takes 1800 mg , that means at least 54 mg hyperforin.

he is allowded to copy from wikipedia:

Hyperforin has been shown to be a potent reuptake inhibitor of serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, GABA and glutamate and exerts these effects by to and activating the transient receptor potential ion channel TRPC6


thanks

Abider added 5 Minutes and 40 Seconds later...

SWIM thinks that SWIY has a real dopamine problem more than a serotonin/GABA/Noradrenalin ...because of your prescription, and especially opiat consume, so SWIM thinks SWIY should work on dopamin ,

for example

(Adderall/Ritalin)
(Bupropion)
Tyrosin or /plus much protein
SJW
B-Vitamins..

Nature is an alternative!

Abider added 5 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

SWIM means :"means not because of your prescription, but "of your descirption"

and the chemistrys in germany doesnt produce the amphetamines, he has to order the single substances and mix them up to pills

Abider added 4 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

AND:

SWIM also thought " SJW is soft" but now he thinks that hyperforin is potent as and better (because of influence on all neurotransmitters) than the other pharmaceutical stuff.
The only problematic thing is that you cant buy hyperforin , you just can buy SJW .. and often dont know how much hyperforin is in the pill.

Last edited by Abider; 03-05-2009 at 22:52. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #7  
Old 04-05-2009, 18:49
baron samedi baron samedi is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

Thanks SWIAbider for the suggestions (especially as SWIM suspects English is not SWIY's mother tongue).
SWIM wonders if he's got a dopamine deficiency, especially as Venlafaxine was much more helpful to SWIM than anti-psychotics (Olanzapine in his case), although he was on AP's as well, when on Venlafaxine.
The fact that he's had psychotic problems makes him worry that Doctors may shy away from prescribing him things like Adderal/Ritalin or other Speedy drugs, maybe even Buproprion for fear of inducing psychosis. Personally, he'd try anything to make things feel more normal again. He's also heard that Tricyclics, MAOI's and even ECT treatment can have beneficial effects for depressive anhedonia.
TBH, SWIM wishes he'd never bothered with opiates and just stuck with cannabis (albeit in smaller quantities than he used to use). Certainly, methadone does not seem to be helping SWIM's mental state much. Maybe a higher dose would help him more but he knows it is not used in psychiatry to induce euphoria/feelings of pleasure, just to stop you becoming ill from withdrawls. His 50mg Paroxetine seems to be having very little benefit in releiving his depression and anhedonia. Mirtazapine has been suggested but SWIM hasn't been too convinced by the posts he's read about it on these forums.
  #8  
Old 04-05-2009, 23:02
Abider Abider is offline
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Re: Most effective AD for the treatment of Anhedonia

SWIM thinks that Opiates are very important in alleviating pain, , as far he know they stimulate dopamin receptors, which originally get stimulated by dopamine itself.
SWIM thinks if there is no physical pain, these cells should better get provided by what they really need (Dopamine) , so they can do their job :applause.

SWIM thinks that the best thing is to give the machine fuel.

SWIM thinks that even stimulants are not even better than opiates or opiods , but stimulants make just the brain addicted , and SWIM thinks that a doc who let some one get addicted to opiods or opiates is no good doc , or has not right learned his job.

Abider added 0 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

He read that mitrazipine works on dopamine.

Abider added 15 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Tyrosin with folic Acid plus ´´B12 ==> L-Dopa plus PLP ==>Dopamine plus Accorbic Acid ==> Noradrenalin.

taking precursors and cofactors of an neurotransmitter is called " precursor loading" , it works , but just for half an hour.

Last edited by Abider; 04-05-2009 at 23:02. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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