Combinations - Antipsychotics and MDMA

[bryanbabylon]

SWIM recently took a couple illicit pills whilst on prescribed Geodon and Prolixin. This was the first time and swim noticed no effects. Is this due to the antipsychotics?

[Ilsa]

Psychopharmacology


Multiple 5-HT receptors are involved in the effects of acute MDMA treatment: studies on locomotor activity and responding for conditioned reinforcement. (here's a link to the first page, will try to upload the whole thing if i can access it later, gotta run atm)



Vol. 162, Issue No.3 pages 282-291


Paul J. Fletcher1, Karin M. Korth3, Shannon R. Robinson1 and Glen B. Baker4


Abstract

Rationale. Responding for conditioned reinforcement is increased by the dopamine releasing agent amphetamine, but reduced by drugs that enhance serotonin (5-HT) function. The amphetamine derivative 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstasy) releases both monoamines.


Objectives.

The primary purpose of this study was to examine the effects of MDMA on responding for conditioned reinforcement as well as on locomotor activity. The roles of several 5-HT receptor sub-types in mediating these behavioural effects of MDMA were also examined.


Methods.

Locomotion was measured in photocell activity monitors. For conditioned reinforcement experiments thirsty rats learned to associate a conditioned stimulus (CS) with water in operant chambers. Subsequently, two response levers were available; responding on one lever delivered the CS, while responding on the second lever had no consequences. Drug effects on this operant response were measured.


Results.

MDMA dose-dependently increased locomotion but reduced responding for conditioned reinforcement. This latter effect differs from that induced by amphetamine, which potentiates conditioned reinforcement responding. The stimulant effect of MDMA was attenuated by GR127935 and ketanserin, indicating facilitatory roles of 5-HT1B and 5-HT2A receptors in mediating this effect. The 5-HT2C antagonist SB242084 enhanced the stimulant effect of MDMA. Only SB242084 attenuated the suppressant effect of MDMA on responding for conditioned reinforcement.


Conclusions.

The results show that 5-HT2A and 5-HT1B/1D receptors play a facilitatory role in mediating the stimulant effect of MDMA, whereas 5-HT2C receptors are inhibitory. Activation of 5-HT2C receptors also contributes to the deficit in operant responding. Multiple 5-HT receptor sub-types appear to contribute to the behavioural effects of MDMA.


Serotonin 5-HT receptor Dopamine Conditioned reinforcement locomotor activity 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, Ecstasy)



fluphenazine (prolixin), if my cat remembers correctly, acts on dopamine

ziprasidone (geodon) is is much more complicate and could be the issue:

CNS Spect. 2005 Nov;10(11 Suppl 17):1-20.Links
From clinical research to clinical practice: a 4-year review of ziprasidone.


Nemeroff CB, Lieberman JA, Weiden PJ, Harvey PD, Nowcomer JW, Schatzberg AF, Kilts CD, Daniel DG
Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Emory University School of Medicine



Ziprasidone is a second-generation antipsychotic that received Food and Drug Administration approval in February 2001. It has a unique receptor profile that includes high-affinity antagonist activity at dopamine D2 receptors, inverse agonist activity at serotonin (5-HT)2A receptors, agonist activity at 5-HTlA receptors, and a relatively high affinity for the serotonin and norepinephrine transporters. The 5-HTIA affinity, together with the inhibitory effect on mono-amine reuptake, may underlie the hypothesized beneficial effects on comorbid affective and cognitive abnormalities in schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. The short-term efficacy of ziprasidone for core positive symptoms of schizophrenia appears to be comparable to other conventional and atypical antipsychotics. The short-term efficacy of ziprasidone in acute mania has been established based on two 3-week, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials.


basically, one on antidepressants, or other psych meds that act as serotonin and/or dopamine reuptake inhibitors (as swim can attest first-hand) feel very few if any effects from mdma, lsd, mushrooms, and other psychoactives htat act on the serotonergic pathways in the brain.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great reference!

[FROWN_UPON_YOU]

SWIM is no chemist, but it is common knowledge to SWIM that anti-psych's "mellow" SWIM out after binges of hard drugs. For example, if SWIY is attending a rave and has consumed a roll that could be diagnosed as a "meth bomb" and SWIY finds himself staring at the ceiling at noon the next day begging for sleep, SWIY could benefit from the effects of anti-psychs, and possibly halt the effects of the meth.

But to address the initial question, SWIM assumes that it is the same way with MDMA, though SWIM has consumed large amounts of pure MDMA and doesn't see the reason to want an anti-psych while rolling, when SWIY could just go to sleep. But, supposing SWIY is rolling too hard, then most likely Yes, SWIY most likely would benefit from consuming an anti-psych, resulting in a more mellow state of mind.

[Ilsa]

^^this is bad advice...it may be harmless to take an antipsychotic with mdma, but there is little research to say whether it is or isn't dangerous and should be assumed to be potentially so until more is known. don't do this.

[bryanbabylon]

Thank you Ilsa, Swim was specifically looking for research like that. Now if only Swim could find an article specifically about the effects of long term antipsychotic therapy on the pharmacodynamics of psychedelics...



Also, Swim does not advocate and strongly advises AGAINST using antipsychotics if you dont need them every day. Swim has seen a whole host of unpleasant and long lasting side effects from his medications. They can occur from as little as one dose, and everytime you take an antipsychotic you take a risk, even if you took the same chemical before. Antipsychotics are noty safe drugs. Swim can also attest from experience that antipsychotics do not put you to sleep whilst on meth. Swim did still stay awake all night from the mdma.

bryanbabylon added 27 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by FROWN_UPON_YOU

SWIM has consumed large amounts of pure MDMA and doesn't see the reason to want an anti-psych while rolling, when SWIY could just go to sleep.

Swim has to take antipsychotics, otherwise swim ends up in the mental hospital. This has been learned through trial and error. Swim just wont waste his money on mdma again.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good warning, thanks