Methadone Tolerance

[GutterPhenomenon69]

Hi, swim noticed that with methadone that tolerance would develop sufficiantly slower than with other opiates (oxy, H, ect). Swim's sure that this is one of the reasons that makes methadone so good for maint. Since one could be on one dose for any indefinite period of time, wherase with heroin, one would havta up the dose weekly if not daily. Swim is on MMT and has been for around 7 months. He has frequently upping the dose until about 1-2 months ago he stoped at 75mg and would LOVE to stay at that dose indef. The 75mg holds swim throught the whold day. swim is very concerned about having to go up since it will be hell to eventualy detox from a higher dose, though swim knows some ppl on mmt who are on 160mg up. So the 75mg is holding swim but he was wondering if anybody has stayed on a dose for at least 7 months and still had 0 withdrawals symotoms and still had that little 'high' that gets up through the day. even though one cant technicaly get "high", everybody on methadose still knows you get a glow. swim doesn't want to up his dose anymore but wondering 7 months down the road if his Tolerance will go up. anybody have experince in that relm??>? any help would be wonderful. thanks in advance

[ex-junkie]

methadone tolerance generally only goes up when you use other opiates on top of your daily dose, also when chasing that high that it gives you when you start it. swim advises to stop chasing the high all together. its pointless unless you really want to be stuck on a massive dose of methadone. remember what goes up, must come down.

[Dickon]

Gutter,

What ex-junkie has to say is to some extent right, but I think misses an important, if difficult to identify point. My cat has experienced methadone from a lowly 30mg/day script which seemed to hold him perfectly adequately for quite a few months (he had the same experience with low-dose morphine - 40-80/100mg/day orally) up to taking 200+mg daily regularly, with a highest dose of 700mg i.v. in one day.

The trouble with talking about tolerance is that it is not a simple phenomenon. I read somewhere that if you up your methadone dose significantly it increases the chances you will want to use on top. I've experienced this phenomenon, or should I say my cat has. In the days he used to regularly take 200mg+/day, he'd often take a 250mg shot of methadone (this was in the days when the 50mg/ml amps were available from private doctors. I'm not so sure if they are so widely available nowadays in England at least) and would often crave more than on days he'd take 200mg orally (cat had a mixed script in those days, but used to score a lot of amps too).

The closest my cat ever got to non-destructive euphoric opiate use was with low doses of morphine once daily. However, although quitting 40mg oral morphine a day is not like coming off 200mg+ of methadone a day, it is very, very far from a picnic.

All I'm saying is that although you might think euphoria is maximised by upping the dose, it's not what my cat has experienced. But, like most things, it's down to the individual, and no universal general rule applies. It seems that periods of fairly stable using can be alternated by more ragged using patterns and dose increment. But, I'm not a believer that it's a case of "finding the right amount of methadone" and all will be well. Somebody mentioned in the scientific literature was on a 2000mg/day script. He probably thought 3000mg a day would have been better!

Just in case anyone is naive enough to read this post wrongly, I will mention that a lethal dose of methadone can be as low as 40mg in a non-opiate-tolerant person.

Dickon

[nateup]

Originally Posted by Dickon

Gutter,

What ex-junkie has to say is to some extent right, but I think misses an important, if difficult to identify point. My cat has experienced methadone from a lowly 30mg/day script which seemed to hold him perfectly adequately for quite a few months (he had the same experience with low-dose morphine - 40-80/100mg/day orally) up to taking 200+mg daily regularly, with a highest dose of 700mg i.v. in one day.

The trouble with talking about tolerance is that it is not a simple phenomenon. I read somewhere that if you up your methadone dose significantly it increases the chances you will want to use on top. I've experienced this phenomenon, or should I say my cat has. In the days he used to regularly take 200mg+/day, he'd often take a 250mg shot of methadone (this was in the days when the 50mg/ml amps were available from private doctors. I'm not so sure if they are so widely available nowadays in England at least) and would often crave more than on days he'd take 200mg orally (cat had a mixed script in those days, but used to score a lot of amps too).

The closest my cat ever got to non-destructive euphoric opiate use was with low doses of morphine once daily. However, although quitting 40mg oral morphine a day is not like coming off 200mg+ of methadone a day, it is very, very far from a picnic.

All I'm saying is that although you might think euphoria is maximised by upping the dose, it's not what my cat has experienced. But, like most things, it's down to the individual, and no universal general rule applies. It seems that periods of fairly stable using can be alternated by more ragged using patterns and dose increment. But, I'm not a believer that it's a case of "finding the right amount of methadone" and all will be well. Somebody mentioned in the scientific literature was on a 2000mg/day script. He probably thought 3000mg a day would have been better!

Just in case anyone is naive enough to read this post wrongly, I will mention that a lethal dose of methadone can be as low as 40mg in a non-opiate-tolerant person.

Dickon

I think this is very true. Its like you have 2 diff tolerances going. When you cross over into the chase mode... its crazy how much is required without ever being fulfilled. It even seems to lower that wd threshold temporarily until crossing back over to maintainence

[ex-junkie]

^so true.

also, depending on your metabolism, and any extra physical activities you might start after commencing methadone will affect its effect. really a 5MG increase should be enough to cover you when this happens.

[streetfaerie5150]

my girlfriend was on methadone for 4 years. she's been off now for 2 almost. she started low because she was pregnant and gradually increased through the trimester. trying to find a safe dose for her and baby. she found that during the pregnancy she would take her dose and nodd a bit through out the day. but by night my girlfriend was restless and feeling itchy. this was mostly do to high sped metabolism due to baby. she stabilized at 120mg and had a healthy son with no withdrawal symptoms.
But once she was no longer carrying a dependent she started to lower her dose because it was to high. i also must add no other drugs were ever combined with treatment. my girlfriend did not double dose. anyway she maintained at 80mg for 1 year and seemed fine. after several years she began to lower the dose each month. by the end of it all she was down to 5mg and decided instead of going in for her daily dose shed just cold turkey it. BAD IDEA!
By then her kid was 3. and taking care of a toddler and being affected by withdrawal symptoms was more then she could handle. and because of other health issues my girlfriend ended up having to go to the emergency room. she had to use Valium and clonidine to function for a few weeks and didn't have a balanced sleep pattern for a month. all in all methadone saved my friends life and her babies but its no joke to get off of. even that last 5mgs fuct her up. but as long as you don't just decide to stop taking it you should have limited side effects when you get off. just my opinion. dont know if it helped but its fun for me to talk regardless if its affective.

[ex-junkie]

^very interesting that 120MG didnt give her babies withdrawals. usually only doses of 40MG and less avoid the newborn going into withdrawal.

swim was on 25MG when she was pregnant. her baby didnt have any withdrawals. she was split dosing 12.5MG day/night. after the baby was born she toddled up to 50MG, but by then she was injecting and was merely chasing a high.

edit: however, swim had been on naltrexone prior to falling pregnant, and a relapse led her to go back to the doctor seeking methadone. she found out she was pregnant on the same day. otherwise swim doesnt think it would have been possible to split dose such a low dose successfully without using heroin.

:/

[tyranny4u]

being on methadone for many years, tt would say that he would increase
his dosage from 110 mg up to 200 mg, but he won't, as he knows that
going up is done quickly, going down needs time and hurts.
tt sometimes would describe it like this: after long time using you don't feel
effect from your dosage. you only feel effect, when you miss the dosage.
after a certain period of time many people would need more and more. tt
is not talking about doing methadone for 2 or 3 years. tt was satisfied with
methadone for the first few years, today it is simply addiction to a substance
that gives no high anymore when consumed in moderate amounts...