Drug info - 2c-t-21

[ibbjamin]

What do people know about this RC? I recently was able to purchase this on the internet, and from what I have read, it is a powerful psychedelic, but was wondering if anyone knew more. Visuals? Doseages? Mind f%@$? Introspection? I hear it is great to do with one other close friend or lover to clear up any problems, but not to do it more that 1or2x/year. Any comments?

[Alfa]

#49 2C-T-21


2,5-DIMETHOXY-4-(2-FLUOROETHYLTHIO)PHENETHYLAMINE


DOSAGE 8 - 12 mg.

DURATION: 7 - 10 h.

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS: (with 6 mg) I noticed something undefined within five minutes which went away. Within 15 minutes I noticed a definite awareness of activity. There was a progressive increase in awareness of something happening over the next two hours with a plateau of perhaps an hour then occurring. The nature of the happening, as usual, was not clear. During the experience I was more talkative than I usually am. I seemed to be interacting with all others. There was no euphoria but, then, there was no body load or nausea, nor was there any nystagmus. I found a little mental confusion at the peak and there was some searching in my memory bank for the right chips at times. I lost the entire line of one of my conversations at one point during the plateau and had to ask what I was talking about. I tested my visual field on a painting and with sufficient concentration I could get the center part to wiggle a little. I didn't try to observe anything with my eyes closed. I feel that there was something physical about the eyes. In the evening, after-images were quite intense, and the next day my eyes seemed tired or bothered. What can I say? The material was pleasant and I certainly got the feeling of being high but not getting too much out of it. There were no insights or "ah-hahs." I wonder if periodic and frequent use (say twice a day) at the one or two milligram level would be a positive mood enhancer?

(with 8 mg) Comes on very gradually and slowly. Takes about an hour to feel. Reasonably intense in two hours, ++. Very pleasant material, enhancing communication, clear thinking, good feeling. There is a feeling of closeness; the bondedness with the group grows steadily during the day, reaching a highly rewarding level. For me a couple of firsts regarding food. I was hungry only two hours into it. I usually don't want food 'til well down as I usually feel that it interferes with the experience. And, also, I nibbled constantly as I felt that there was nothing in my body. And I enjoyed it thoroughly, feeling only the warmth and energy, with no contrary developments. There was a nice feeling of inner strength and peace.

(with 8 mg) It was very difficult to fix the times of ascent or descent. Some chilling during onset but not later. And there was some yawning and ear-popping. It is easy on the body, in no way threatening. This time I am very relaxed and somewhat lethargic; the visuals are not too pronounced. Excellent sleep.

(with 10 mg) I find I can use it if I set my energy in a direction I really want to go in. Otherwise I can just be stoned and self-indulgent. Not out-of-body cosmic at all. But it's good material, an ally, not presenting hidden negatives.

(with 12 mg) Well ... 12 milligrams is quite enough for a +3, which was established within the first hour and plateau'd by the end of the second. Body felt quite safe, again, but there was considerable push of energy. I did not feel par-ticularly interested in doing anything like writing and in fact preferred to watch television while rocking a bit on the couch, to ease the push. Mood was faintly grim, but not more than faintly. I noted something that I hadn't seen before with this material: time slowing. The first two hours seemed to last a very long time. There was no anorexia. It wasn't until 10 PM [fifth hour] that the idea of writing had any appeal at all. By then, I was still +3 but a lot more at ease. I wrote two letters and enjoyed the process. Sleep was fine. My mood next day was slightly introverted, not very spontaneous for a while. Late in the afternoon, it was a lot better.

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: This is about as potent a phenethylamine as they come. There are a couple in the 2C-G family that are similar in potency, but they are much longer lived. The motivation for the use of the beta-fluoroethyl group can be seen under the discussion of DOEF, where there was an amalgamation of two lines of reasoning: the imitation of potent serotonin agonists with a need of including an atom (the fluorine) that is potentially labelable with a positron emitter. And the mass-18 isotope of fluorine, with a half-life of just under 2 hours, is ideal for many biological studies. In fact, much of the research work being carried out by the Nuclear Medicine group in Berkeley is based on the analogy between a halogen atom and a beta-fluoroethyl group. There are some similarities in pharmacology so that if there is a bromine or an iodo atom present in a drug, it is a fair guess that the corresponding beta-fluoroethyl would also be active. In a sense, the cute (and chemically impossible) idea of putting a bromo atom on the sulfur of the 2C-T family is nicely satisfied by using the beta-fluoroethyl group instead (which is chemically completely possible).

A logical extension of 2C-T-21 is the three carbon amphetamine analogue which should be, by comparing structures and activities, a very potent and in-teresting material in its own rights. This would be 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(2-fluoroethylthio)amphetamine or, following the nomenclature used with the earlier members of this series, ALEPH-21. A solution of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(2-fluoroethylthio)benzaldehyde (see earlier in this recipe) in nitroethane with ammonium acetate gave 1-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-(2-fluoroethylthio)phenyl)-2-nitropropene as yellow-orange crystals from MeOH with a melting point of 102-104 °C. And that is where the project now stands. It has not yet been reduced to the amine.

This phenethylamine, 2C-T-21, was the last of the 2C-T's to be completed. A couple of other sulfur analogues have been given numbers, and have been started, but the syntheses are still at some intermediate state.

The (n)-butyl compound, named 2C-T-19, has been taken to the nitrostyrene stage. Reaction between 2,5-dimethoxythiophenol and (n)-butylbromide with KOH gave 2,5-dimethoxyphenyl (n)-butyl sulfide as a colorless oil. This, with phosphorus oxychloride and N-methylformanilide, provided 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(n-butylthio)benzaldehyde as pale orange solids from MeOH, with a melting point of 78-79 °C. This, with nitromethane and ammonium acetate, gave 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(n-butylthio)-beta-nitrostyrene, with a melting point of 133-134 °C from either IPA or acetonitrile.

The 2,2,2-trifluoroethyl compound, which I have named 2C-T-22, has been taken to the benzaldehyde stage. Reaction between 2,5-dimethoxythiophenol and 2,2,2-trifluoroethyliodide with KOH gives 2,5-dimethoxyphenyl 2,2,2-trifluoroethyl sulfide as a very pale amber oil. This, with phosphorus oxychloride and N-methylformanilide provided 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(2,2,2-trifluoroethyl)benzaldehyde as crystals that proved to be exceedingly difficult to purify. Yellow solids can be obtained from several solvents, and they melt in the 70 °C area. The initially isolated fraction melted at 69-72 °C and showed three major spots by both TLC and GCMS. The largest GC peak was the correct product with a parent peak of 280 m/e, and cracking fragments at 154 and 234 m/e. A small sample was finally obtained from hexane with a melting point of 78-79 °C but I am not sure that even it is particularly pure. Not surprisingly, the reaction of this crude benz-aldehyde with nitromethane and ammonium acetate gave a nitrostyrene product that was a complex mixture. And there that project also rests.

A couple of additional efforts warrant comment. The reaction between trifluoromethyliodide and 2,5-dimethoxythiophenol should have produced 2,5-dimethoxyphenyl trifluoromethyl sulfide, but it didn't produce anything. And one more. What about a bare thio group at the 4-position in this 2C-T-family? Maybe this can be protected through everything as the disulfide, and be reduced at the last step! The disulfide, 2,5-dimethoxyphenyl disulfide (see under 2C-T-15) was aimed towards the needed bis-aldehyde with phosphorus oxychloride and N-methylformanilide, but all that came out of this were black oils and tars. This has also been abandoned for now.

And it has just occurred to me that there is yet another effort that is certain-ly worth making, inspired by the observation that 2,2-difluoroethyl iodide is commercially available and not prohibitively expensive. It, with 2,5-dimethoxythiophenol, and following the obvious steps to the aldehyde, the nitrostyrene, and the final amine, would produce 2,5-dimethoxy-4-(2,2-difluoroethylthio)phenethylamine hydrochloride. It lies exactly half way between the highly potent 2C-T-21 (the mono-fluoro), and the yet to be finished 2C-T-22 (the trifluoro). Let's be weird, and call it 2C-T-21.5. I will wager mucho that it will be very potent.

[ibbjamin]

My friend said it gave him a headache and lack of mental clairity at the 8mg level, and that he is not interested in trying it again. Does anyone else have any experiences with this RC besides Shulgin?

[kitchkinet]

I just tried 20mg on monday. When you're coming up there is some head pain but it's on the ourside of your skull, like in the muscles surrounding it. The experience was beyond description, the core of spirituality. It was also euphoric as hell, better than dope. Did you know we're all gods?

[ThaNewJimJones]

Wouldyou guysrecommend it?

[ibbjamin]

Finally tried 8mg. Reached a modest +1, but nothing extrodinary. Probably won't try again. Did not even seem like it had much potential at higher doses.

[mariecurie]

I know three people who have tried this compound and they all took it
together. Not sure of dosage, although I'll try to remember to ask
them, but they all hated it. They said it seemed very negative and the
body load was apparently quite uncomfortable. I would recommend 2C-T-7
(although it seems many people have a stigma against it) or 2C-T-4, as
I know a lot of people who love both of those substances.

[dmax]

21 is trash. Well, maybe not trash, but really, it doesn't do it
for me. I'd prefer to be sober. If something isn't powerful
enough to blast me out of my skull, but has all the associated
annoyances of RC's, (nausea, body load, headache, etc.) I don't care
for it. Better to go for a nice walk, or exercise or
something. It feels better and is more rewarding. I'd say
don't bother with this one.

[fastandbulbous]

It is not a powerful compound in terms of pure psychedelic activity, but has an empathy component that is more noticable than other 2C compounds. People seem disappointed as they're expecting to be smeared all over reality with it, but it's not that sort of compound. Horses for courses - it's a bit like an underpowered MDMA without the stimulation, so it's good for close personal situations, just don't expect it to be like any of the other 2C-T's


Also, I've never experienced any body load from it at doses up to 12mg, and I've got a really sensetive gut

[allyourbase]

its extremely powerful at relevant dosages, and it doesnt work on everybody. I can definately say it doesnt work on everybody. A kid I knew, had around 300 milligrams of this compound broken up into 8 milligram doses, took two and didnt feel it, so the moron started snorting them, ended up snorting about 150 milligrams altogether. He was very lucky to be one of the few this compound has no apparent effect on, had he not been, he would have surely died or at very least freaked out.Edited by: allyourbase

[nanobrain]

very powerful, subtle, non-debilitating psychedelic which, unlike most others, is not anorectic.

one of my personal favorites.

not for everyone. works on the bioenergetic systems, really cranks the Kundalini, better be fairly clear of any major energy blockages or you're liable to blow some circuitry (remember that wheelchair victim meltdown).

on this one, i could go to work, teach martial arts, paraglide and SCUBA dive.

my views on 2CT-21 tend to go along Myron Stolaroff's lines, for anyone who has not read it yet, From Thanatos to Eros, 35 Years of Psychedelic Exploration is now online.Edited by: nanobrain

[allyourbase]

a FoFoF snorted 20 milligrams. said it was +4.

[akcom]

I found the body load to be too much to deal with to make the
experience worth it (I don't tolerate body load very well). Also,
a lack of mental clarity really ruined it for me; I use
psychedelics to enhance my clarity and perception, not fog them.

[nanobrain]

^^insufflating very powerful phens in heroic doses is not the way to go, imnsho.

as far as the body load, i'm guessing it must only manifest at high doses as in the Shulgin range, there was none noted, which made it a great allaround tool as i also cannot handle physical side effects very well.

for me, any mental cloudiness was also a sign of too high a dose. that said, i found less is much more with 2C-T-21...Edited by: nanobrain

[allyourbase]

he did so against the better judgement of those around him. hes still alive. although he did have to spend an hour in the tub.

[nanobrain]

^was this an ice / cold water tub, perchance?

at lower doses, ~250 to 500 micrograms, the answer to Shulgin's last question in the first paragraph of Pihkal's "Qualitative Comments" on 2C-T-21 would seem to be yes, in the short term...

[allyourbase]

no, hot shower, this material in some has the odd quality of making them drowsy, while to others its a very strong stimulant, still others seem to feel no effects whatsoever (even at "heroic" dosages =P). in short, the chemical is consistent, but its effects are not. only a few people who I know have taken this substance would seek the chance to do so again. all who do feel it (whether they claim a stimulant or depressant effect) say that 10 mg is a decent visual dose, and also quite a few have stated that this compound is neither here, nor there. its not a positive substance, its not a negative substance. its a good material to perform short term research on, but itsenergy is too indifferent IMO.

[dmax]

Oh boy, let's all run out and blow 100mgs of T7! That's f-n heroic if for some reason you end up living...

[allyourbase]

2ct7 and 2ct21 are two different compounds with very different effects.

[gn2osis]

Took over two hours to kick in from some reports, otherwise identical
to Shulgin's notes in terms of effects and potency. People
seem to respond to the sulfur-containing 2C's (the 2C-Tx's) with
especially high variability

[nanobrain]

full effects of 2C-T-21 do not peak until ~T 3:00

there are many reports of dissociative effects at higher doses.

[grandbaby]

As this compound has been seen abroad as of late, does anyone have anything to add re: effects/duration/etc.?

[JDreaming]

Does this compound have an MAOI effect like 2C-T-7 does?

[allyourbase]

a few years ago, directly after op webtryp, swim had extensive experience with this compound, and had a very high level of association with people trying it for their first times. its quite a strong compound, most prefer to snort it despite swim's warnings. 4-8 mg instranasally and 8-12 mg orally were the average doses. of about 60 people 3 did not feel any effect at any dose (none had any experience with any sort of phenethylamine including amphetamine), which is a dynamic swim has not noted in any other active phenethylamines he has experience with. duration is 6 to 8 hours. usual after effects until sleep or redose. unsure of any maoi effects as it was discouraged by swimself to mix it with anything, at the time being unsure of its full effects.

[JackARoe]

Monkey Report: He says:

6.4 mgs of 2CT21 ingested on an empty stomach. A little food at the half hour mark. Took about an hour to kick in, 2 -3 hours to peak, total effect about 7 hours. Like 20 mcg of acid and maybe 40 mgs MDMA but with it's own personality. Very mild. No body load except a tighting in the throat. More empathogenic than psychedelic. It can be crossed off the list without needing further visits really but glad it was tried.