Health - Taking Mushrooms with a Family History of Bipolar Disorder?

[bimmer]

Buddy has a friend who’s dad is bi-polar. Buddy told his friend that he should not do E since it can possibly trigger it or any other underlying hereditary mental disorder buddy might be prone to.

Is there any danger of triggering a hereditary or potential mental disorder like bi-polar with shrooms?

[Ilsa]

age of onset with bipolar is pretty variable, but my cat would reason that if there was some sort of mental disorder passed on to swiy that it would have manifested in some way by now (swiy should be 18+). more details of swiy's psych and medical history would be helpful. if swiy has had symptoms of bipolar, psychotic breaks, or other mental issues, they shoudl probably avoid hallucinogens.

if not, using mdma or mushrooms every so often (as in every other month, if that, ESPECIALLY in the case of mdma, which can cause neruonal death. as in it literally causes holes in one's brain) shouldn't be deleterious....of course, one could always do a small test dose to probe for sensitivity or adverse reactions, then work up from there and slowly. one can always take a bit more, but 'un-taking' something doesn't work so well.




*****ok, i am amending this post to say that i was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with the "holes in the brain" comment. the point was that serotonin depletion can and does cause axonal and neuronal cell body damage and dysfunction. thanks to everyone for looking out

[Phungushead]

SWIY is the only one who can truly determine if he is mentally stable
enough to experiment with psychedelics. Mushrooms, etc. generally will
not create problems out of nowhere, but they certainly can bring latent
mental illness to the surface. For some with these disorders, very
careful dosing with psychedelics can be very therapeutic. But for others,
it can, and has, created serious psychological wounds.

It is a risk that needs to be weighed out very carefully first.

[bimmer]

so should one tell buddy that its probably not a good idea? Buddy is not bi-polar, he is actually very stable. Just that his dad has the problem so it might be an issue.

[CrookedEye]

If the person really wants to try it, then starting with small doses to see how they reacted would be the best bet, and perhaps they'd be fine, especially if they don't seem to have mental problems. No more than one pill that is known to a be a nice dose, or even a half.. With cautious experimentation, one can probably determine what they think is okay for them, it's reckless use that more often causes problems..

[bimmer]

the guy will tell the person that its not a big deal, but guy would not suggest doing it. Thanks for the input

[CrookedEye]

SWIM wouldn't say not a big deal, as it can be a big deal for someone, but by trying small doses cautiously, they may be able to enjoy it safely.

[Lady Codone]

MDMA doesn't cause "holes" in the brain, draining of spinal fluid, or any other outrageous disorder, but it CAN damage serotonin receptors and deplete serotonin supplies, both of which can lead to depression, memory loss, and other serious problems.

Of course, this doesn't happen with safe dosing, at least not to the point of causing harm, so it's all about harm reduction. Shrooms and other psychedelics are more likely to trigger hallucinations and schizophrenia-spectrum disorders than bi-polar disorder, but anything's possible.

Actually, psychedelics don't "trigger" or "cause" anything, it's the stress from the experience that leads to mental problems in the few cases where this happens. Any stressful life event is just as likely to trigger an underlying mental illness (particularly schizophrenia in those predisposed), so as long as the trip isn't overly frightening or traumatic, your friend should be okay.

[Potter]

Ilsa: Would you mind posting a source on your info there? There's been so many bad studies on MDMA that I'm having a hard time buying that.

[Ilsa]

do you mean the neuronal cell death bit?

there is a lot of conflicting evidence, but here's what i found in terms of serotonin depletion and its effect on the dorsal raphe nuclei:

Monkeys were repeatedly administered doses (2.50, 3.75, and 5.00 mg/kg) of MDMA subcutaneously and analyzed for regional brain content of serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid two weeks later. In all regions of the monkey brain examined, MDMA produced a selective dose-related depletion of serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid. These neurochernical deficits were associated with evidence of structural damage to serotonergic nerve fibers. In addition, MDMA produced pathological changes in nerve cell bodies in the dorsal, but not median, raphe nucleus. These results indicate that MDMA is a selective serotonergic neurotoxin in nonhuman primates and that humans using this drug may be at risk for incurring central serotonergic neuronal damage.
(JAMA 1988;260.51-55)



Potter: maybe we could start a thread or something addressing the conflicting results of such studies....having worked under NIDA grants, i can say that there is pressure on some researcher to produce data that supports the whole "drugs are bad" mentality, thus increasing the likelihood that data are skewed in that direction.

i don't wan to get too off-topic here, anyone with a personal history of mental illness should be VERY careful and those with a family history should still be more careful than the average fish.

like i said, there is much dispute in this matter....i tend to err on the side of caution, as many of the people i knew ten years ago and were frequent users of mdma have problems with depression now. this is not to say that mdma is ths sole cause, there are multiple other factors at play. but i can say with some certainty that some neurons are dependent upon the presence of a particular neurotransmitter , which acts as an anti-apoptotic (anti cell death) signal. when serotonin is depleted, these cells can't function normally and self-destruct.

Reputation Comments on this post:

fanbtastic paper to help clear up a difficult subject

[bimmer]

SWIM's friend has tried marijuana many times with no problems and drinks every weekend. Is THC in particular any indicator or "test" of safety to suggest that shrooms won't do anything.

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by bimmer

SWIM's friend has tried marijuana many times with no problems and drinks every weekend. Is THC in particular any indicator or "test" of safety to suggest that shrooms won't do anything.

In my tree's experience, Cannabis is far rougher than magic mushrooms. He has had a panic attack on Cannabis before, but never even experienced anxiety during the peak of a mushroom trip. He would argue that with correct dosing, mushrooms are comparatively gentle; the long come-up helps too, as opposed to an almost sudden onset with Cannabis.

Nevertheless, each experience is unique and each individual is unique. Some people cannot handle mushrooms or have turbulent trips, so nobody can really answer that question for SWIY's friend, but my tree wouldn't advise anyone to try the "big psychedelics" without being able to handle THC first.

As always, be careful.

[bimmer]

for SWIM's friend would a good dosage be 2.5g?

Freind is 6,2" 240lbs.

[Coconut]

1.3 - 1.5g of dried Psilocybe cubensis is the usual recommended beginner dose, but I wouldn't foresee many potential complications from 2.5g. He may consider it to be a bit too intense, so if there are any benzodiazepines lying around, SWIY may want to keep them on hand just in case his friend loses control of the experience.

Tell SWIY to make sure that his friend doesn't go above 2.5g for a first time, or he'll be jumping into the deep end.

[bimmer]

Thanks Coconut, the stuff that SWIM has is just regular marshmallows, what do you mean by dried? Sorry, bit of a noob. Oh and what do benzodiazepinesdo?

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by bimmer

Thanks Coconut, the stuff that SWIM has is just regular marshmallows, what do you mean by dried? Sorry, bit of a noob. Oh and what do benzodiazepinesdo?

Dried is as it sounds - when mushrooms are left out, away from humidity, they will lose their moisture and become dry, hard and brittle. This is how they are usually be dosed, in contrast to fresh (wet) mushrooms, which must be consumed within several days of harvest. Dry dosage weight is usually between 1:8 and 1:10 compared to fresh ones.

Benzodiazepines are compounds which relieve anxiety (anxiolytic), prevent seizures (anti-convulsant), relax muscles as well as induce relaxation (sedative) and sleep (hypnotic). They can be used to ease the feelings of a bad trip if the tripper feels they cannot handle it. The anxiolytic benzodiazepines are the most effective at this as they relieve anxiety and panic; the ones you may have heard of include diazepam (Valium), lorazepam (Ativan) and alprazolam (Xanax). They are usually only available by prescription.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent information, thanks!
	clearly answers the question

[el burgo]

SWIMS possums dad has bi-polar, SWIMS possum as a result of LSD/Mushrooms/E/Cannabis is now seriously mentally ill. Just a wake up call.