Maybe schizo? needs advice

[PotFiend]

SWIM's father is a full fledged paranoid schizophrenic/ tweaker. like, governments after him, implants in SWIM and his heads, mind control, tinfoil in the windows, that kind of shit. SWIM was wondering if it would be a good idea to stop using methamphetamine and if trying acid might be a bad idea, because SWIM heard something to the effect of it making it worse. i dont know for a fact that i have it or anything. i do get paranoid about being paranoid alot and it tends to leave me paranoid....but no proof or anything. thanks in advance
SWIM

[Synchronium]

How old is SWIY? Schizophrenia typically strikes in adolescence/early adulthood.

Although there is a genetic component, environmental factors are also required. SWIY won't give SWIYself schizophrenia. If SWIY has it, it would have been caused by a neurological insult as SWIY's brain developed.

Attached is a paper about the neurodevelopmental hypothesis on schizophrenia's aetiology if you feel like doing some further reading.

Rapoport JL, Addington AM, Frangou S, Psych MR. The neurodevelopmental model of schizophrenia: update 2005. Mol Psychiatry. 2005 May;10(5):434-49.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good job of backing this up with fact based attachment
	Nice concise response
	Helpful information

[pinksox]

Does this period cross into periods of sobriety? Or is after prolonged meth use? Or just a single use?

What SWIY is describing sounds like paranoid schizophrenia symptoms; however, there is another disorder known as amphetamine-induced psychotic disorder which is often seen in meth users who've been using heavily.

No, SWIM doesn't think an acid trip would be particularly helpful for SWIY. In fact, it sounds like a drug-free holiday is probably the best thing SWIY could do for themselves.

[Potter]

Yes. Drugs aren't for everyone and if schizophrenia runs in a family, and drugs cause a person to act schizophrenic, then they need to stop. Period. No more drugs. Go find something else to do.

There is good correlation that drug use can trigger schizophrenia in people inclined to such. While it isn't clear if the person WOULD have developed schizophrenia, drugs do seem to trigger the onset of symptoms.

[Synchronium]

Or, do drugs exacerbate the symptoms that're there, but undiagnosed? Drug users tend to be adolescents & young adults too.

A large amount of schizos use drugs or have used drugs, but maybe it's not a causal agent, but more a method of coping with an undetected, undiagnosed, "atypical perspective"?

[thebige]

swim agrees with pinksox in that acid would not be a good idea.........
paranoia may be brought on by a whole host ofthings...........but the meth use seems to stick out like a sore thumb here,if cutting down or stooping methamphetamine usage relives the paranoia....well there you go..
Trying to figure out the cause of one problem can only be complicated by layering other potential problem causing substances.....IMO

[Montgolfier]

Try not to worry too much about your fathers medical history. Be aware that there is no 'schizophrenic gene' or anything like that which can be passed down to you, worrying that you may be contracting something that your father clearly has could be making your situation worse - trust me, swim's dad has got severe schizophrenia and swim researched this properly.

Swims advice, lay off the speed and pot. If one thing swim has learnt about paranoia is that the two worst substances to abuse (especially during the late teens / early twenties) is amphetamines and cannabis. Swim knows this isn't what you want to hear cos these drugs are loads of fun, but that's the way it is.

Acid may not necessarily be a complete rule out, but be aware that if there is paranoid thoughts going on in the brain at at the time of ingestion, these thoughts will simply amplify resulting in a bad trip. Taken at the right time acid can be an extremely useful and life changing experience, although there must be comfortable surroundings, great friends and a clear head for this to happen.

Good luck. )

Reputation Comments on this post:

Actually, the is pretty strong evidence that genetics plays at least a role in schizophrenia. Patterns DO tend to occur...

[dmtHELLA]

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO SOME OF THESE PEOPLE

Schizophrenia IS PASSED ON FROM YOUR PARENTS

If you have no family history then you cannot get schizophrenia

But you do have schizophrenia in your family so you are very susceptible

I just took a test on this in College and according to the textbook

If your Father has Schizophrenia and Mother does not, then you have a 17% chance of becoming Schizophrenic.

NOTE- YOU CANNOT BECOME SCHIZOPHRENIC WITHOUT TRAMATIC EXPERIENCES/ THE USE OF DRUGS

So... do yourself a favor and sober from any mind-altering substances more intense then marijuana

Also the older your father was when he had you the more likely you will develop Schizophrenia so keep this is mind as I do not know this information about you.

Yes you could do drugs and maybe you will not develop schizo

but this is literally playing Russian roulette

from experiences with your Father you know this is a condition you do not want.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	You're right the IS evidence that genetics play a ROLE in development of schizophreic disorders; however, lack of family...
	Actually schizophrenia can occur without a family history of mental illness.

[Kajo.Moto]

Originally Posted by dmtHELLA

PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO SOME OF THESE PEOPLE

Schizophrenia IS PASSED ON FROM YOUR PARENTS

If you have no family history then you cannot get schizophrenia

But you do have schizophrenia in your family so you are very susceptible

I just took a test on this in College and according to the textbook

If your Father has Schizophrenia and Mother does not, then you have a 17% chance of becoming Schizophrenic.

NOTE- YOU CANNOT BECOME SCHIZOPHRENIC WITHOUT TRAMATIC EXPERIENCES/ THE USE OF DRUGS

So... do yourself a favor and sober from any mind-altering substances more intense then marijuana

Also the older your father was when he had you the more likely you will develop Schizophrenia so keep this is mind as I do not know this information about you.

Yes you could do drugs and maybe you will not develop schizo

but this is literally playing Russian roulette

from experiences with your Father you know this is a condition you do not want.

Schizophrenia has a strong genetic component and though drugs use and/or traumatic experiences can trigger the onset, they are not requisite. You may develop schizophrenia for no reason other than genetics, and the disease is a progression: the negative symptoms (emotional flattening, anhedonia, disordered thinking [this is a cognitive aspect of the disease]) precede the positive symptoms (hallucinations, paranoid delusions).

Methamphetamine sets of the alarm bells quite loudly. Even marijuana can lead to paranoid ideation and trigger latent psychological disease. LSD is a gamble as well, but do not let the 17% figure in the above quote guide personal decisions. 17% reflects the population; individually, the best SWIY can do is know SWIY's mind and know SWIY's body.

If paranoid ideation already exists, wait until the walls start bending and reason flies out the window for hours... that's a bad time to start wondering whether or not SWIY may develop schizophrenia. SWIY might end up OMGing into the fetal position. If SWIY must: start low and get some sleep beforehand.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice and further information for the OP regarding personal effects

[emoduckie]

Do what you want!
Don't waste your life worrying about becoming schizo!
LIVE!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Because a liftime of deblilitating mental illness is SO worth a few hours of LSD
	worthless comment
	Very irresponsible advice
	highly irresponsible and flippant

[dmtHELLA]

lol maybe were underestimating the negativity of schizophrenia...

BTW whoever wrote that rating is a legitimate imbecile. Read and understand before giving a rating for the words "lol"

Reputation Comments on this post:

not a funny subject, the topic creator is here for help, not jokes.

[Montgolfier]

Just to clear something up, THERE IS NO SCHIZOPHRENIC GENE!

Yes, schizophrenia patterns do exist in families, yes, you can even pin a percentage chance on a child developing symptoms like the parents.

But there is definitely no schizophrenic gene. If you disagree please link to some proof.

To the OP,

You may be susceptible to psychosis, this doesn't mean you are bound to have a psychotic episode

If you do have one psychotic episode this doesn't mean you have schizophrenia, and It's quite possible for someone who experiences one psychotic episode to make a full recovery and never cross that line again.

To repeat - weed and speed can take you towards that line very quickly if you are a susceptible individual.

But more than anything - I say this - trust the advice of your loved ones.

Peace, and good luck!

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by MrCheese

But there is definitely no schizophrenic gene. If you disagree please link to some proof.

SWIM couldn't post the link as it was a gov site (against the rules) so she has put the information into a word document, removed the hyperlinks and attached it to this post.


To the OP-
If SWIY is really worried or has suffered breaks from reality SWIM urges SWIY to see a doctor. It is understandable to be paranoid about developing such a severe illness, and also understandable that SWIY is paranoid about the paranoia given the circumstances, but this alone would not indicate schizophrenia. It is probably for the best if SWIY stays clear of drugs as environmental factors play a role in the development of schizophrenia too.
SWIM hopes SWIY stays well.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting document

[Infinite Rainbows]

Schizophrenia is a theory and not proven scientific fact. Anybody that tells you it is real doesn't understand it. As you see in some of the linked scientific studies, they mention theory only.

Doctors tend to get an ego where they treat people as if schizo is a fact. The only fact they found is that people who are unipolar can not be considered to have schizophrenia. Unipolar people have been mistreated (not diagnosed) as if they had schizophrenia, which just made their condition worse since it was highly misunderstood (i.e. the ego jumped to conclusions of typical "exacerbated" behavior).

It is normal to be paranoid, as we would be stupid to not have any paranoia. The problem is when the level of paranoia becomes a cause to make one act in a uncontrolled way. Anxiety is a common condition that makes this happen often. The level to be aware of is one becomes too confused of their environment, then it is time to call time-out and do something to regain balance. Some drugs just don't 'agree' with some people, and they go straight from normal to psychosis real quick. Psychosis is a temporary condition, yet it can be one of the most humiliated experience one has when never experienced before. People who get drunk on alcohol experience psychosis (maybe on a lighter scale). Think of these as 'warning signs' rather than actual problems.

Some people like to make people feel like they have Schizophrenia in order to confuse them and get them to do things they normally wouldn't do. This is practiced most often then one realizes. It crosses so many boundaries that I wouldn't know where to begin, yet there is some evidence of it already in this thread (tsk tsk).

Golden rule: Life is crazy, so don't be crazy and stupid.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Schizophrenia is a very severe set of symptoms that are very real, and can be very debilitating. Mild cases may get mis...
	chock full of BS, provides no citations for utterly outrageous claims
	Completely untrue, shows no factual knowledge of schizophrenia, belittles OP and sufferers. Read rules about backing up ...
	Utterly irresponsible stance and totally unsupported by medical and scientific research.

[chibi curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Infinite Rainbows

Schizophrenia is a theory and not proven scientific fact.

Is this a joke?

Anybody that tells you it is real doesn't understand it. As you see in some of the linked scientific studies, they mention theory only.

There are theories regarding the mechanism of schizophrenia. The fact that certain drugs work kind of proves what's going on. An excess of dopamine in certain neurological pathways.

You're one of those people who claims that evolution isn't real because it's "just a theory," aren't you?

The only fact they found is that people who are unipolar can not be considered to have schizophrenia.

You can have unipolar depression and schizophrenia.

It is normal to be paranoid, as we would be stupid to not have any paranoia. The problem is when the level of paranoia becomes a cause to make one act in a uncontrolled way.

...and this is called schizophrenia.

Psychosis is a temporary condition,

Not for schizophrenics.

People who get drunk on alcohol experience psychosis (maybe on a lighter scale).

Wrong.

Some people like to make people feel like they have Schizophrenia in order to confuse them and get them to do things they normally wouldn't do.

What in the name of Albert Hofmann would be a benefit of making someone think they're schizophrenic when they're not? Wait, I think I saw this on a soap opera once (don't laugh, I worked for a TV station and couldn't avoid it). This evil old bitch convinced her nephew that he was insane so he could be committed to an asylum and she'd inherit his share of some family fortune.

These are some incredibly ridiculous claims. Evidence or GTFO.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	an excellent refuting of a ridiculous post
	Excellent Response
	Used dogma as rebuttal that doesn't prove or disprove IR's opinion. To say uncontrolled paranoia is being schizo is just...

[Dr.Evil]

@ Infinite Rainbows.....in case you didn't know it is literally almost impossible to definetly prove anything in science. Everything you have ever read about science is a theory, which is considered fact UNTIL new data comes out that shows the theory needs to be adapted. You say that anyone who says Schizo isn't real obviously doesnt understand it.

I say you obviously don't understand scientific method, genetics, or anything related to the two.

@Mr.Cheese.....you stated that there isnt a schizo gene like that proves it doesn't exist. There is not a conciousness gene, a cancer gene, or any gene for anything. But guess what .....cancer and conciousness are still real things. People and many scientists alike imply that this or that gene is the cause of something to get the public more interested in their findings. Almost every disorder, disease, or malady that a human could experience is brought about by an amazingly complex intereaction between multiple genes, protiens, and other things. Just like all these THC causes psychosis threads.....it is only a component cause. The reason that they don't understand it is NOT because it doesn't exist. It's because there are so many factors that have an affect, scientists so far havent been able to unravel the complex network of interactions.

*Note: You even said in your post that you are w/e % more likely to get schizo if you parents had it. Therefore even if there isnt a schizo gene, there is some set of genes or set of mutations that make the children more likely to get it. So in effect there are some type of "schizo genes" that get passed onl.

[Infinite Rainbows]

Originally Posted by Dr.Evil

@ Infinite Rainbows.....in case you didn't know it is literally almost impossible to definetly prove anything in science. Everything you have ever read about science is a theory, which is considered fact UNTIL new data comes out that shows the theory needs to be adapted. You say that anyone who says Schizo isn't real obviously doesnt understand it.

I say you obviously don't understand scientific method, genetics, or anything related to the two.

After a careful consideration of the replies above, what I said about where others don't understand I continual to stand firm on. If you look carefully at the replies, you'll find what writters and debaters call scarecrows, and I know better not to argue those distractions.

I did ace my chemistry classes and other science classes, as a rebuttal to you quick assumption I don't understand the scientific method. You assumption that everything is fact until proven otherwise is your approach and the way you want to believe, yet as a scientist I take the more traditional route and say it is theory or at least requires proof and confirmations.

Those proofs and confirmations, at the least, are what doesn't support schizophrenia anymore of something that can actually be diagnosed. I think people rely of a small set of data and a very ignorant to the greater knowledge of what the body and brain are capable of doing, and these abilities are what they ignore in order to say being schizophrenia is real. It is a very careless approach to treatment.

The only thing I can agree with, even with my approach that 'all is possible', is that schizophrenia is the symptoms of doctors that diagnose a misunderstood condition or abilities of people. In other words, when a doctor diagnoses schizophrenia on a patient, it is that doctor that actually diagnosed himself/herself.

Touche.

[Dr.Evil]

Wow,

I almost don't know how to reply to that......uh....interesting response, but I'll give it a shot.

In regards to your understanding of the concept of a "theory", theories are not just believed based on some persons development of it. Theories are developed from amounting alot of scientific data. It is based on factual evidence that usually shows an association/correlation. A generally accepted theory, such as schizophrenia exists, is a theory that has so much more evidence for than against it. It is generally accepted as fact. I don't support a theory unless there have been enough experiments, data, and scientists that all agree on the issue. Im glad that you aced your science and chemistry classes in high school, but unfortunately for you I am graduating in about 3 months with a degree in Molecular/Cellular Biology, a Minor in Chemistry, and an Area of Emphasis in Neuroscience.

Those proofs and confirmations, at the least, are what doesn't support schizophrenia anymore of something that can actually be diagnosed. I think people rely of a small set of data and a very ignorant to the greater knowledge of what the body and brain are capable of doing, and these abilities are what they ignore in order to say being schizophrenia is real.

I would love for you to enlighten me on these amazing capabilities of the brain that, according to you, we are all so ignorant about. Also what proofs and confirmations are you talking about? You talk about needing factual evidence then spout non-sense without backing it up. Kind of hypocritical in my views. I would very much like to see where you are finding this "greater body of knowledge" that everyone is ignorant to.

In other words, when a doctor diagnoses schizophrenia on a patient, it is that doctor that actually diagnosed himself/herself.

Im not even sure what you mean by this. Are you implying that the doctor is "projecting" their own schizophrenia onto the patient and incorrectly diagnosing it?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent, concise explanation of scientific theory.

[Amnesia]

@ Infinite Rainbows

Could SWIY please provide some evidence to back up SWIY’s claims?

To quote directly from the rules:
“Your opinion is of no use if you do not explain why.”

The FAQ also states:
Back up your claims
When making statements that are not anecdotal, you should be able to back up your claims with some sort of evidence. Especially if your claims may be controversial, you may be asked to provide proof (preferably scientific). Failing to do so will hurt your credibility and reputation but not usually get you infractions – except if you post dangerous advice or make a habit out of posting misinformation. Don’t make controversial statements if you are not able to defend them reasonably.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good job asking for references

[Amnesia]

Originally Posted by Infinite Rainbows

I have no problem at all to further support my claims, yet just because someone else says they I am right or wrong doesn't make it a fact that I am right or wrong. The evidence is here where the simpler ideas about the scientific process are ignored, and that ignorance is exacerbated by those that claim 'belief' by second hand knowledge. In other words, they used someone else's belief even though they haven't personally performed the scientific process of such theory or of what someone else has found fact.

It is by building upon, or refuting (which requires evidence), the evidence of others that science continues and moves forward. To ignore the work of others would cause scientific progress to stagnate.

SWIM chose to study psychology and read a wide variety of opinions and beliefs on schizophrenia, including historical ideas of it, before she formed her own conclusions based upon them. She is in agreement with the most recent theory behind the causes of this illness, and had already formed that opinion before the evidence was published earlier this year. Evidence for its existence is more than apparent in the forms of a variety of types of brain scan, post-mortem studies, genetic research and clinical studies.

SWIM did not do the research into penicillin herself, she has never done any research into antibiotics, but her life has been saved by them therefore she is happy to accept the ‘second hand knowledge’ that antibiotics destroy micro-organisms. The same goes for levodopa, another drug which saved SWIM’s life but which she has no personal knowledge of the creation of or its precise mechanisms of action.
These medicines proved themselves to people far more intelligent than SWIM and, when her life hung in the balance, she was happy to accept the ‘second hand knowledge’ and facts about their worth from other people. Just because she personally does not know and/or understand the scientific processes which took place to create these medicines, or the precise manner in which they work, does not mean she can deny their use and/or existence.

SWIM says, to be honest, she isn’t entirely sure what SWIY is saying. SWIY seems to be arguing science with philosophy.
SWIY has been asked to back up SWIY’s claims with evidence 3 times now and has given no evidence, just more opinion. The burden of proof falls to SWIY as SWIY is the one making controversial claims and denying a widely accepted illness. SWIM believes this is a pointless discussion as, without a coherent evidence based argument from SWIY, there is no discussion.

[Snowman]

My father is somehow schizo and my brother developed severe schizo because of bad things like my bad father and drug use, first encounter was a small dose LSD and since then it become constantly worse over the years. I highly doubt becoming ever schizo, I would never use a drug without being sure being able to handle it. To my understanding genes play a big role everywhere but there are always other factors that play a big role as well.

[Potter]

When we say "back up your claims" we mean post a link or bibliographical citation, not talk in circles. You have yet to offer anything remotly related to proof that schitzophreina is a "theory"

Untill you can do this, we have no common ground to stand on.

"Techno sugar"? Isn't that what the boogie man brings you? How exactly does a made up word you invented that "some call them chips" explain anything? If you think this is real, then you tell us about it, if you don't have anything to say about it, then don't bring it up.

"Blacker than Black"? would you care to explain this?

In closing. Support your claim that schitzophreia is a theory or don't expect to be taken seriously.

[Dr.Evil]

"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

--Billy Madison

I'm done with this nonsense..........

[Ilsa]

Ok, while this isn't entirely off-topic, it's geting there. How many posts in this thread have actually addressed the OP's request for advice? Quite a few at first. Quite honestly, whether schizophrenia is fact or theory (and based on the MRI scans i've seen, it is most certainly real) is less relevant than the fact that the OP asked for advice in dealing with schizoid/schzophrinic symptoms, not our opinions on fact vs theory.

So to back back on that track: using any kind of psychedelic can trigger stress, among many other physiological responses, any of which can contribute to the exacerbation of schizoid tendencies. if one must experiment, low doses to start and a sober sitter are both essentials. imho, avoiding them altogether would be better, as would any grounding, centering activities like meditation or exercise, even just a walk.

this doesn't mean everythign is off-limits, as was mentioned, start low (as in, take what you think is a low dose and then halve it), have someone sober present (even sans psychedelics, adverse reactions to any new substance is possible). there are safe ways to explore, but i think avoiding certain substances (lsd, shrooms, anything that causes massive increase of audio/visual sensory inputs to the brain) is wise and that the OP is intelligent to ask.

hope this helps.

just for reference (and to let the OP know that their concerns are relevant and valid, here is a comparison of two anatomical MRI's, one normal, and one of a schizophrenic patient. note the enlarged ventricles on the affected patient (right). more info can be found here.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Thanks for getting this back on topic
	for directing us back to the OP

[Ilsa]

Originally Posted by PotFiend

SWIM's father is a full fledged paranoid schizophrenic/ tweaker. like, governments after him, implants in SWIM and his heads, mind control, tinfoil in the windows, that kind of shit. SWIM was wondering if it would be a good idea to stop using methamphetamine and if trying acid might be a bad idea, because SWIM heard something to the effect of it making it worse. i dont know for a fact that i have it or anything. i do get paranoid about being paranoid alot and it tends to leave me paranoid....but no proof or anything. thanks in advance
SWIM

again, this addresses the theory of the disease, not the OP's concerns.

let's all agree to have our varying opinions while suggesting methods for coping with paranoia/anxiety that was the original issue.

as i stated earlier, i think psychedelics are a bad idea for anyone with a tendency to suffer psychotic/schizoid episodes. other paranoia-inducing drugs (methamphetamine, cocaine, etc) should likely be avoided as well, and meth in particular as it induces audiovisual hallucinations.