Other - So whats next?

[fatcat]

Swim recently finished his first bufotenin (5-HO-DMT) extract and he must say that he loves it. Swim doesn't find it as rewarding as DMT (which is his favorite), but he likes it much better than the 5-MEO-DMT he extracted. It's just way too much of an ass kicking for him, but it's good on the rare occasion. So that brings me to my question, what would swiy recommend be his next extraction be?

Swim would like to try some more DMT based molecules, but is not confident enough in his knowledge of chemistry to try a synthesis so it should be an extraction.

If anyone knows of a way to extract pure, stable 4-HO-DMT that would be much obliged. Or any information regarding 5-MEO-4-HO-DMT or 4,5-dihydroxy-n,n-dimethyltryptamine because swim knows a neat trick to synth them with shroomies, but cannot find enough info on them to be worth trying.

[Richi]

Originally Posted by fatcat

If anyone knows of a way to extract pure, stable 4-HO-DMT that would be much obliged. Or any information regarding 5-MEO-4-HO-DMT or 4,5-dihydroxy-n,n-dimethyltryptamine because swim knows a neat trick to synth them with shroomies, but cannot find enough info on them to be worth trying.

If he knows, please post!

Other than that, I cannot at this time add any useful information for you and yours.

[fatcat]

Originally Posted by Dr.Alexander Shulgin

However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.

Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus. Though this method has never been explored with 5-MeO-DMT, it has been used successfully for changing DET into 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET, both of which had never before been found in nature.[2]

In the case of DET the mushrooms yielded only 4-HO-DET or 4-PO-DET respectively, instead of psilocin (4-HO-DMT) and psilocybin (4-PO-DMT), suggesting that the presence of the extraneous N-dialkylated tryptamines competed for the enzymes in the fungus mycelium that would normally produce psilocin. This method thus not only produced new chemical compounds that had never previously been made synthetically, but also rendered the fungus itself completely legal in many countries because of its absence of psilocin or psilocybin, although in countries with stricter drug analogue laws such as the USA or Australia the novel tryptamines produced would also be illegal.

Theoretically, this method would 4-hydroxylate and 4-phosphoryloxylate any tryptamine added to the substrate, opening the possibility of synthesizing as yet undiscovered tryptamines.

Swim plans on experimenting with that technique in the far future (He is studying to become an organic chemist ATM) but is not confident enough in his knowledge yet.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very interesting information. thanks for the post.

[CrookedEye]

Found this on another forum..

Originally Posted by relic
OK now for the current state of Bilbo's experiments.
~1/4 oz. cubensis, maybe more(not measured, doh!), was ground in mortar to powder.

This was placed in a flask(filled with nitrogen) and to it was added ~175ml 99.95% Methanol, capped, and stirred well @ RT for ~18 hrs
Vaccum filtered with medium paper, shroom material discarded, and pour out in pyrex dish with fan to evaporate.

Next day the residue was scraped off dish, it resembled a sticky cellophane/crystal amber in color and smelled of shrooms.
This was place in a small dish in a sealed container of CaSO4 to dry further.

The next day it was removed and found to be dry and easy to break up with a razor, the middle was still a bit tacky so it was all chopped and then reasealed in the dessicator to dry further. The next day it was a dry crystal type looking material that did not melt at RT. It has not been left in the open air though.

Later, part of this material was stirred into luke warm water(acidified with acetic acid to a pH of ~3-3.5) for ~5 min. until anything that would dissolve @ that temp did.

This water was added to a sep funnel and to it was added 1:3 portion of chloroform(the chloroform being the smaller), shaken vigorously and left to stand for 10 min(more time here made be appropiate)
What was left was a bottom layer of now white and milky looking chloroform and a top layer of somewhat cloudy water.

The chloroform was drain off and allowed to evap in a dish with fan. The water was drain into another dish and evap'd in the same manner.
The residue in the solvent dish was a thin white/amber waxy material.
The residue in the water dish was a thick clear amber syrup/tar which is best described as tree sap

The sap was scraped up and placed in the dessicator, after 2 days it did not noticably change in consitency other than perhaps a slight less gooey, maybe*

Distilled water was brought to a good boil then added to the dish containing the sap and stirred by hand briefly until it all dissolve, for the most part.

This water was then brought back to a boil just briefly then vaccum filtered(now though of as a mistake maybe)

Immediately after filtering perhaps b/c of the slight cooling a substance was appearing in the filter flask. Assuming with was unwanted it was refiltered, most went through again. Next most water was poured back through the filter, this time with a cotton ball in the outlet spout, but the remaining residue @ the bottom was poured into a dish with fan to evap.
The now slightly tinted but otherwise clear water was brought back to a boil and reduced by half the left to cool and then placed in the fridgr to cool further. No precipitate was seen at any point so the water was placed in a dish to evap.

Meanwhile, it was observed that the mystery substance was now dry already and boy was it. At RT in open air with a fan it had dried very well and was stablew and crumbly, but what was it? It was then placed on a watch glass and put in the dessicator, but beforehand a small fingertip was licked and pressed into it and licked, no taste.

Within 5 minutes or so a effect was being felt, perhaps placebo but definate. Feeling persisted and grew for some time(~30 min) until beer was injested and then who knows.

That's it so far folks. The next step is to test all residues with ehrlich reagent. If the small substance that came out of the boiling water is the goods this process may be simplified dramatically and one definate change would be to immediately add the boiling water(with substance dissolved in) into a sep and then simply drain off the precip. Also, solvent(chloro) may or may not be needed at all. Or it may be possible to use cheaper, more readily available solvents. Interestingly the original methanol extract appears to be quite stable and, at least if kept closed, the crystals stay dry in a vile @ RT. Although the mass of this substance is clearly too large to be pure at all and it does taste(well at least smells strongly) of shrooms. One more note, the sap smelled very strongly of shrooms but the mystery material was pretty tasteless.

[fatcat]

I would assume that the 4-ho was in the chloroform extract, because 5-ho is soluble in chloroform (again I have very little understating of what I'm talking about), but if it wasn't it most likely would have been destroyed when it was boiled. Thank you for the info though.