Health - Kratom sent my marmot to the hosptial

[user86]

He's feeling better and wrote me a letter, describing his experience:

Previous experience with kratom:

Prior to my last experience, I had used 8oz of kratom over a 4-5 month period, starting around the end of 2007. Doses between 8-15 grams of crushed bali, ground and tossed back with lots of water, with no issues. I took a break from drugs other then alcohol, cannabis and the occasional benzo or opiate around May 2008 and continued to drink heavily on a daily basis until November. Found approx 15 grams of kratom from the 8oz batch in my freezer and consumed it towards the end of November with water and a 6pack of low gravity beer. Had weird abdominal tightness that felt like it was in my kidneys and very dark urine. This passed in less then 24 hours, so I didn't think much about it.

After the kratom experience from above, I decided to cut my drinking back to once a week or less. I would still drink heavy though, usually a 12pack in a night.

Recent experience with kratom(4/02:

Ordered 56 grams of crushed bali from the same vendor. Ground, tossed back with water. 8 hours in I was getting pain in the lower right side of my abdomen. It got worse after eating and I had call off going out with friends and lay down. Started running mild fever(99.5F) and had difficulty urinating and when I could it was VERY dark, basically orange. Woke up the next day and my complexion was noticeably different and my eyes were yellow.

Went to the emergency room and had a blood panel done, doctor said it was hepatitis. She gave me some promethazine for the nausea and sent me on my way. 5 days later I got my physician to read my labwork, as the ER doctor didn't tell me much. He said the panel was non-reactive for viral hepatitis and the kratom most likely caused it. My enzyme levels were very high and he was surprised my eyes weren't more yellow. Nurse took more blood and I went home.

Doc called me yesterday, which was pretty thoughtful(usually leaves a message on a call in system) and told me my enzyme levels were significantly lower and I shouldn't eat things we don't know about. I'll be having more labwork done in a week or 2 and hopefully everything continues to look good. It was a pretty scary experience though, I haven't read any reports of liver problems...or any serious problems with kratom use, so this was completely unexpected.

My marmot plans to send me a copy of his labwork once he receives a copy himself. If any of this information could be useful, I'll post it once it's available.

user86 added 77 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

Can't edit my post! The dose that sent me to the hospital was 15 grams, not 56 grams.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very well written with all the important info. Incredibly important issue, please keep updates coming.

[Pete28]

SWIM must interject and say that it was most likely not the kratom that sent them to the hospital but the prolonged drinking and then the mixing of kratom. This is not meant to be rude simply stating from experience. SWIM used to be a VERY heavy drinker and also burned kratom and the drinking had to be stopped as that was causing the problem.

Kratom in high doses just like opiates can make it very difficult to urinate

Peace

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good issue to raise

[Mystopia2000]

It sounds like it could be Jaundice to SWIM. Which could be a result of hepatitis, prolonged heavy drinking, or something else; SWIM's would not rank Kratom as to likely a suspect. Swim is not a doctor though.
It could also just be a strange hangover that goes away and doesn't return, which would be a whole lot better than liver damage.

[humdroid]

sorry to hear of the hospital admission and illness says Y.
Y threw up after injesting kratom ontop of booze.
he now steers clear of booze if kratting.

[Apostacious]

It may be possible that the "Toss and Wash" method of dosing affords a greater health risk. Someone Who Is Not You is eating ground up plant matter, which comes with a warning: Not Meant For Human Consumption. The material has not been thoroughly inspected (there could be pest feces, dirt, spit, sweat, urine, etc on it). The above warrant proper preparation to make ingestion of kratom safe when SWINY has not grown the kratom himself. All that is needed is to prepare the tea, where there exist far lesser risk because the material is heated above 200F.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good points

[Panacee]

Originally Posted by Apostacious

It may be possible that the "Toss and Wash" method of dosing affords a greater health risk. Someone Who Is Not You is eating ground up plant matter, which comes with a warning: Not Meant For Human Consumption.

My dog says they just put that up there to cover their asses.
Every sane person knows what it is bought for.

Might the problem not have been caused by bacteria / molds that also happen on products that are 'for human consumption'. If you toss-and-wass with cold fluids, they might cause trouble. My dog suggests boiling water.

If 15g Bali would send my dog to hospital, I would never have to clean dog-poo.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice addition about the possible mould/bacteria issue

[Little Wing]

The hepatitis was probably caused by the Alcohol rather than the Kratom. SWIM has had liver problems - high liver enzymes showed up in blood tests, so he has tried to cut back on the drink - and one of the reasons he wanted to replace it with kratom. He uses milk thistle regularly but not sure how effective at liver regenerating it really is depite the claims.

Originally Posted by Apostacious

It may be possible that the "Toss and Wash" method of dosing affords a greater health risk. Someone Who Is Not You is eating ground up plant matter, which comes with a warning: Not Meant For Human Consumption. The material has not been thoroughly inspected (there could be pest feces, dirt, spit, sweat, urine, etc on it). The above warrant proper preparation to make ingestion of kratom safe when SWINY has not grown the kratom himself. All that is needed is to prepare the tea, where there exist far lesser risk because the material is heated above 200F.

nasty - do you think all those contaminates could be in the kratom leaf SWIM buys from a reasonably respectable vendors? Or is it just a gamble wherever one buys it?

[Sam Spade]

It must be mentioned though that the original users of Kratom have been doing it for Centuries I believe without these sort of adverse health effects. Of course, anything in excess is bad for SWIY no matter what it is.

[bella donna baby]

I would have to say, working in the medical field myself, that I agree with alcohol being the likely source of the problem. Prolonged and excessive alcohol use CAN could hepatitis along with many other serious health problems. My father was a major alcoholic and it did kill him! Not by liver failure but by causing a condition that is way too hard to spell or even pronouce that cause amonia toxcisity in the brain. This can be stopped by stopping drinking. It causes serious balance problems and if continues to worsen causes permenant brain damage. When I say balance problems I mean Falling off the couch while just trying to sit there and not move. My dad eventually had a fall in the bath that knocked him out at which point he drowned. With all that said, I can also tell you that prolonged and/or excessive use of many drugs including tylenol or motrin can cause liver failure. I myself have learned that the hard way. While I have not had my liver fail YET it is enlarged and showing the same probles that you would see in an alcoholic. YOur liver processes everything that goes into your body so just be careful with what and how much you take.

bella donna baby added 1 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

I appologize for my typos I'm not very good in the typing department lol

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thankyou for sharing, you have my condolences too

[Frond]

Uh, your marmot's been drinking. Heavily. For quite a while. So just because it used Kratom at the same time doesn't mean that it was Kratom exclusively that caused this. It could be a combination of Kratom and the alcohol but Kratom alone has not been tied to liver damage. It has been connected to reversible prostate enlargement and skin darkening, but not to any serious liver issues.

Still, thanks for the heads-up. I do hope your marmot doesn't have these issues from now on. I would suggest not only laying off the leaf but also laying off the drink, which is tied very closely to liver damage.

Also, combining opiates and alcohol is a bad idea, as is combining different types of downers in general. One only has to look at celebrity drug deaths to see that this combination has been responsible for a very large chunk of them.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well said, good advice, harm reduction

[AceOvArts]

Use Milk Thistle to help with the regeneration of ones liver.

SWIM hopes the Marmot is feeling better now !

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice

[Lady Codone]

SWIM had a very disturbing experience with kratom...her first and only.

She took a very small amount--probably 1/4th of a teaspoon--of a powdered blend, put it into a huge Sonic Route 44 cup of hot water, and drank about half of it over an hour or so. After an AMAZING high that blew even her drug of choice (hydrocodone) out of the water, she fell asleep. When she awoke, she was shivering and shaking violently, covered in sweat. For the next month (yes, MONTH), she experienced what she can only compare to extreme heroin withdrawal symptoms: cold sweats, nausea, diarrhea, extreme paranoia and slight visual hallucinations. The only other substance she was taking at the time was 5-HTP 50 mg., and only every other day at that.

How could such a miniscule dose of kratom cause a month's worth of illness? The only other negative health reports swim's seen on kratom are urinary retention and the above poster's hepatitis. SWIM's symptoms (cold sweats, shivering) were similar to kidney infection...perhaps that's what it was? Still, the intensity of the illness was NOT in proportion to the amount taken. She wanted so badly for kratom to be her reliable source for an opiate high, which made it even more disappointing. Be safe.

[AceOvArts]

Lady Codone, Kratom wouldnt do that(in SWIMS humble opinion), SWIM can only think that SWIY had a virus of some kind that coincidently manifested itself after the Kratom use. SWIM had a similar thing happen when he tried H for the first and last time, though he had fun while on the H afterwards he went downhill fast and had 3 days of cold/flu symptoms. Just a coincidence but at the time a little worrying.

[Maxfrombx]

SWIM had a very disturbing experience with kratom...her first and only.

She took a very small amount--probably 1/4th of a teaspoon--of a powdered blend, put it into a huge Sonic Route 44 cup of hot water, and drank about half of it over an hour or so. After an AMAZING high that blew even her drug of choice (hydrocodone) out of the water, she fell asleep. When she awoke, she was shivering and shaking violently, covered in sweat.

SWIM had similar experiences with kratom. When he overdosed on regular kratom, he got intense shakings (almost unable to type on a keyboard), tachycardia and profuse sweating.

Last time it happened was only the day before yesterday... But SWIM can't understand what really went wrong. He only took 15g of Bali, left the effects wearing off and then took 100mg of L-theanine to get a good night's sleep... kind of granny high.
30 min after, his heart began to accelerate while watching a movie... Big tachycardia (decided to lay down, mesured HR at 165!). No anxiety, only detached. Heart pounding really strong, and a light pain between two ribs.
SWIM decided to put everything in order before going to bed, while shaking and sweating, in case something went really wrong with this granny high. Took a benzo under tongue that made a quick effect at low dose, thanks to the L-theanine, and woke up fine the morning after.

Anyway, this kind of incident only happened to SWIM with regular kratom. When he overdosed on extracts like UEI (his favorite), he only gets opiate OD symptoms... SWIM is wondering BTW if all these powerful extracts are not tainted like Kripton with suspicious substances like O-D-tramadol...Regular kratom mixed with powerful full alkaloïd extract never approched the effect of UEI for SWIM.

[snapper]

SWIM has used kratom most days for the last 5 years and has never had a reaction of this kind. SWIM has had tachycardia when dosing too much at once, but it usually does not last that long and is mostly annoying. SWIM knows that kratom comes from all kinds of different places and distributers, not to mention middlemen, and some may contain other plants or adulterants (SWIM had one batch which contained a large amount of dirt to add weight). There is no proof that the herb you buy is what it is advertised to be. This is why SWIM prefers crushed leaf to powder (easier to see if it is cut).
Also, some may have an inherent sensitivity to the drug. SWIM would suggest that those who are skeptical look up possible side effects for such "benign" drugs as vitamin C (ascorbic acid) or pepcid (famotidine - an antacid). Millions of people take these without incident every day of their lives, but every once in a while, they do harm or even kill.
SWIM reminds all readers that they are guinea pigs testing poorly characterized plants and substances, and there are consequences to doing this, if only for a few unlucky ones.

[radiometer]

SWIM has used kratom most days for the last 5 years and has never had a reaction of this kind

Ditto. Though I would be very curious to see what results Ed would get from an enzyme test.

Ed has had some negative effects from chronic kratom use, but this has not been one of them.

[snapper]

SWM has had 2 liver panels since starting, the first with overlapping 1.4 BDO use, the second while drinking too much. Both were normal. Of course this is SWIM's liver only, and SWIM takes milkthistle every day.