are we all born in a prison?

[billyloner]

metaphorically speaking. had a conversation with my mates to night at the pub (bear in mind that this conversation had more than a taste of alcohol involved) but we basically decided we are all born in a prison, all 'chained' in some way to a reality that we do not perceive. but the use of certain mind-expanding drugsmay allow you to perceive the prison in which we are bound. however this does not lead to a way out, simply a knowledge.


maybe this is just an alcoholic thing, but we've had similar discussions before. we are all chained in some way or other to 'real life'...

[Creeping Death]

We may be "bound" to a certain real life, but it doesn't have to be a prison. Take your life into your own hands and it's paradise.

[transit]

My impression is that the “prison” isn’t so
much something that we are born with or into, but is something that we
learn. </span>Some things are supposed to be
paid attention to; others are to be ignored.
</span>“We” are good; “they” aren’t so good.
</span>Our religion/country/race/system is right. </span>The sky <b style="">is[/b]
blue. </span>The grass <b style="">is [/b]green. </span>Some feelings are
acceptable; others are not. </span>And on and
on. </span>Kids want to belong and they learn
that there are certain ways to be and perceive that support belonging and
others that result in rejection.</span>


Some drugs can be very useful tools in
breaking down the walls or better still in opening the doors to a much bigger
reality. </span>At the same time, other drugs
serve the maintenance of the “prison” by supporting distraction and
suppression.</span>

[billyloner]

yeah transit thats kinda what we were getting at. and your right, it is something we learn. i once had a conversation with another friend of mine, and he got annoyed because i told him he'd been conditioned to think that a certain word (i dont remember which) meant a certain thing - i had to explain to him that everybody gets conditioned to think of words in certain ways, its how we learn language. and i guess your right, it is how we learn to live that affects the way we live.


creeping death - i accept it is possible to take your life in your hands, but in my experience it still does not 'free' you all that much...

[transit]

Here are
some relevant quotes from one of my favourite social commentators/philosophers,
Bill Hicks:</span>






“The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on
it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride
goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very
brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people
have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question: ‘Is this
real, or is this just a ride?’ And other people have remembered, and they come
back to us, they say, ‘Hey, don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because this is
just a ride.’ And we kill those people.

...It's just a ride and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice.
No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money, a choice, right now, between
fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy
guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one.”



</span>”</span>That's what fundamentalism breeds though,
no irony, you see. They take the word literally. Fundamentalists, yah well,
once again- I recommend a healthy dose of psilocybin mushrooms...."</span>




“Today
a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed through
a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself
subjectively, life is only a dream and we are the imaginations of ourselves.”</span>

[billyloner]

cool quotes ill have to try and remember them for next time me and my mates have this discussion - and it usually happens pretty regularly when we go out after work without any dinner and too much beer

[MescalinePirate]

I actually saw Bill Hicks for the first time last night, on his
Revelations thing where he said that quote. Excellent and funny dude.

[transit]

For anybody who has never actually heard or seen a Bill Hicks performance (better than just reading quotes from him), there are lots of audio and video files of him available off of p2p systems such as limewire.

[daveman]

Bills Hicks is awsome, that guy has some very funny stand up. To
bad hes not around anymore. I heard some of his stand up when he
was describing one of his schroom trips, it was great.

[billyloner]

well after reading those quotes, i had a search for some of his performances on bittorrent - theres a few, and ill download them soon as my current queue has completed in a few days... can you recommend any performances in particular?

[Sick Jack]

A prison ? Probably...

But are you speaking about our body or our society ?

I will primarily feel me the prisoner of my body personaly, cause its the first source of suffering.

But as well as it is a kind of prison, my body is the way to Illumination too.

[transit]

Swim’s favourite Bill
Hicks p2p download off of limewire is “Bill Hicks – Shrooms.” Most of his other material is excellent as
well. His social commentary seems so perfectly
fitting today that it is eerie to realize that it is years old.</span></span></span>

[billyloner]

i dont have limewire, but ill have a look for that and others on the programs i use.


sickjack - i was primarily referring to the mind, but the body can also be a prison. im thinking that maybe prison was a touch too strong a word, but hey, i was drunk when i posted the thread...

[uqlfy]

Two men looked out through prison bars

One saw dirt

The other saw stars

[transit]

There was once a tiger who had been
captured many years before and placed in a cage in a zoo. </span>The cage had a concrete floor and metal bars
for walls. </span>The tiger spent his days
pacing from one end of the cage to the other.
</span>When he would reach the bars at one end he would rear up, turn around,
pace to the bars at the other end, rear up, turn around, and on and on.</span>


As time went by the people of the town
where the zoo was located began to feel sorry for the tiger. </span>Attitudes regarding zoos had changed and
people began to speak of building a much larger enclosure for the tiger where
he would be able to wander much more freely on soil, grass and rocks amongst natural
vegetation. </span>Eventually they decided to
build the new enclosure for the tiger.
</span>It was built around the old cage such that as it was being developed the
tiger could see it taking form each day as he paced from one end to the other
of his cage.</span>


Finally the day arrived when the enclosure
was completed. </span>The tiger was drugged and
lay asleep in the middle of the cage.
</span>Workers carefully sawed off all of the bars at their base such that when
they were finished the tiger lay in the middle of a cement pad in the middle of
the new enclosure. </span>The townspeople
gathered to watch him awake. </span>Finally he
arose and slowly began to move towards the relative freedom of his new
enclosure. </span>But when he reached where the
bars used to be, he reared up, turned around, and paced to the other end of the
cement pad where, when he reached where the bars used to be, he reared up,
turned around, and on and on.</span>


Drugs and other methods can be very useful
in opening doors, but if one doesn’t walk through the door . . .</span>

[billyloner]

interesting story. and your right, seeing the bars (or the door) is only part of it...

[Solidly-here]

Is there a prison? Yes ... and No.


The prison we are in? Each person is born into their own body. This body is the ONLY one we are allowed to inhabit during this life. If I see someone else (say, for instance, Mel Gibson) and say: "I want to be him ... this body is my prison" THEN, this body (because it is the only one I get) IS a prison.


Another prison? Each person OWNS the things that he has (I have THIS car, this place to live, these friends, this work, these fun activities to do). So, when I see someone else who has some things that I do not have, I can (easily) consider my existence un-fair (why don't I have THAT thing, it's not fair). I create my prison for myself.


Yet another prison? I look at another person. I see that he has his life together (even though, at some level, I know that no one actually has a perfect life). Well, his life is perfect; therefore, I have done something wrong (or else, MY life would be perfect too).


Escape from prison. At the times (seconds, minutes) when I am NOT looking around at others, and measuring myself by how they are living, things they have, things I don't have ... I have attained a Temporary Reprieve. I spend some of my energy getting as many of those Repreives as I can.


Those times (minutes ... seconds), when I feel that my life is going along well (enough) ... thoseare the times when my life is going well. This is a better way (for at least most of us)to feel.


This life is NOT easy for most of us (me, too). This is especially true for people who are compassionate about the feelings of others (Was I kind enough with her today? What can I do to help him?) But, this is the world that we are living in ... and there are basic common beliefs (in each country, in each city ... and especially in each family).


AS I grew up, I heard (from Mom, Dad, relatives) values that are (somehow) important; this injected those ideals into my prison. I will live this life, with these ideals. Then (trying to do the "right" thing),Isaw my life as (somehow) a continuous job of holding tightly onto to this values; then I live my life, judging myself each day: How well (or poorly) did I live by those lofty ideals? And, since no one is perfect, the best I can ever hope for is to fall short.


So, the ideal (or, more accurately, what it is supposed to mean to my daily life) is the problem. When Ican look at an ideal as a cheer-leader, to inspire me to do a better job, that's a good thing (Wow! I really did that well). When I look at the ideal as my minimum standard (the least I cando, happily,is this state of perfection), IT'S a prison.


Edited by: Solidly-here

[Ephemerides]

Society is a prison in itself. Societal standards determine what your
actions in some way or another. We're also limited to money. Money
traps us to our jobs.



I agree with solidly-here, many of the prisons are prisons we make for
ourselves. I've been feeling trapped to this house and town. But if I
really wanted to, I could leave tomorrow. But I've been putting walls
up all around me, or maybe walls are just coming up all around me.