Life after Heroin?

[Breedlove]

Hi Folks...

Hey, The Bonehead's got a couple questions for the older heroin addicts out there. And The Bonehead is afraid I'm only asking the opiate users because stimulant freaks are another breed...no offense intended.

(Man... I wonder why I got such a problem with this SWIN nonsense...)

Anyway, back to the question...

One of Bonehead's questions is this... Is there really life after Heroin. He means, Christ, have we reached the pinnacle of existence having experienced the best there is. Can junkies ever become normal. By normal The Bonehead means...no N.A./A.A., no fucking God nonsense, and no shrinks. God, He's so sick of the whole recovery scene, their jargon, and the scam of it all. He's also sick of being a junkie.

Second question...Is anyone out there think the American view of addiction and recovery is just totally unrealistic, not to mention a scam. These fuckers in the recovery field know they're full of shit...Christ, what's the success rate of rehabs...what? 3-4 %.

Shit, ran out of time... I'll check in later. Any input would be appreciated.

Peace...

Reputation Comments on this post:

While rehab and NA may not be for you its worked for a lot of people and many wouldnt consider it a scam

[Ilsa]

10% which ain't all that great. me cat thinks swiy's input would be appreciated here, since they obviously have some experience with this system.

as far as life after....my cat is slowly getting back to finding pleasure in every day life....not as much as before, but more so than when she first quit.

[chillinwill]

Of course there is life after heroin. Red Rock just reached the one year mark from being clean off heroin and hasn't felt better in his life since well he can't even remember being clean and feeling this good. Red Rock got clean without the help of NA/AA and through sheer willpower and his own determination as well as a program (schedule) he created for himself. He thought all of that NA bullshit wasn't for him as he has failed many times in that program and just ends up making new drug contacts.

Red Rock has now gone back to old hobbies and interests he used to have before he started using heroin. Life has not only returned to how it was before he was an addict with the whole lifestyle and personality change, but it has infact gotten much better and Red Rock has learned many important lessons.

So basically, yes there can be a life of not using heroin after one quits. It just depends on how bad someone wants to change their life and stop using and finding new interests.

As for the rehabs and their success rate, yes it is very much a scam. Not only do they inflate their success rates, but they skew the data to make it seem like more people are successful when infact they are not. After being through 7 rehabs/treatment centers, Red Rock has come to find out most of them don't teach you shit (unless its the first time you go) and that everything they offer can be found in NA/AA since they base their program on NA/AA's program. Therefore, even though NA/AA says they are a free program, they are really not in essance because of the cost it takes to go to rehabs to get the same type of theropy.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	he knows what he's talking about, trust
	Wow swim is hoping one day he can be where you are, Great post

[Breedlove]

Thanks, Chill, maybe there's hope. The bonehead will try to remember this when He decides whether the work involved in cleaning up is worth the quality of life He will attain in the time He has left. He's 56 and time is flying by like a flock of geese.

Peace....

[chillinwill]

Its all up to what Bonehead wants to do. In Red Rock's opinion, getting clean and staying off the opiates is definitely worth it just so someone can experience the joys and beauty of life without being in an altered state all the time. Is Bonehead still using or are they making an attempt to clean up?

[Ilsa]

Originally Posted by chillinwill

Its all up to what Bonehead wants to do. In Red Rock's opinion, getting clean and staying off the opiates is definitely worth it just so someone can experience the joys and beauty of life without being in an altered state all the time.

this is so true....just waking up and seeing the sun shine is worth it...once real emotions come back, they can be a litttle overwhelming, but this is far superior to being numb all the time....heed RR's words

[oxynomo]

sure there is lfe afte DEATH(H)Just Mon.swim for the first time in years cleaned his backyard without being opiated nomally would take 3 days,this time he,s 2/3 dome in one day.Swim did his detox on his own as he doen't need people teelin him how he shouldfeeling or doing,theyre not me.Swims still not normal by any means but can see each day getting brighter.As to your comment abot the tweakers swim did a long stint of that monster years ago with few to no side effects.On the rehab swim considers those places no different than MickeyD's,ought to make a buck and that's it.o

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the personal insight

[kaloochi]

There has to be life after H. Life on H isn't life anyway, merely an existence. He's having trouble with what you call the 'pinnacle of existence' (a reference to the euphoria?) He definately wouldn't call it that. OK we existed blissfully for a while on H, nothing could touch us, but then it always turns to shit. Everything is just 'alright' when you're on H, you're not happy and you're not sad. You don't experience proper emotions, you're blissfully unaware and because of this it's very difficult to fill the void left by H . The vast majority if us (non users aswell) could never feel like this under normal circumstances. It is good to experience things as they really are when you clean up, the sunrise in all it's glory, colours jumping out at you, tastes, sex, real feelings, but it all pales after a while. We don't want to stop because we don't like the effects of the drug but because of all the crap that comes with it. Like most things that seem too good to be true, it is. Therein lies the hope, we should see it for what it is, a false prophet.
He's always been sceptical about rehabs and their methods. Nobody knows what the fuck to do about addiction and no-one understands it. Rehab is a one dollar solution to a million dollar question. It's like no-one has the answer so we'll sit around and talk about it and call it therapy. It's like that in England too and no doubt worldwide.
Any answers there are lie within the addict themself.

[ex-junkie]

Originally Posted by Breedlove

Is there really life after Heroin.

life is indeed what you make it.

swim quit methadone in 2005. no more methadone. no more heroin. ever again. not even once tbh. if swim had taken any, surely she would be on the same destructive "merry go round". the one she was so desperate to get off.

the only way to get off it for good is not to touch it. if you dont take it, you wont be hooked on it.

anyways, swims life begun in 2005. shes studying, she has valuable possessions now that have never seen the insides of cash converters, she has money in the bank, she is a terrific parent, shes learnt how to spin records, make music, she has no debts, she can feel emotion, and she is in love.

people are so quick to say that heroin helps them deal with their emotions, but that is severely one-sided. in the act of taking away pain, youre also taking away the joy and the happiness.

happiness does not equate to an IV rush/or equivalent. trust. thats just the "heroin robot" thats taken over your mind and reason.

life is what you make it, and swim is so fucking pleased to have changed hers for the better. she wishes the same for you. goodluck.

[Dickon]

The simple answer to this is "yes, there is", but that said it's not something that everyone obtains. For many it's death or methadone / buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex) maintenance. At 56 you will not be the oldest man to quit drugs, but unless you got into heroin very late in life, you will have quite a few years of history to "undo", as it were.

I very much doubt there is an "American view of addiction", in a monolithic sense, but I imagine you mean the "disease concept". So many people on here slag this off, along with 12-step programmes, but I don't at all. We must always be careful not to confuse a concept/model with naked reality (totally different paradigms) but without some kind of systemization there can be no methadology to treating addiction. Sure, the "methodless method" might ultimately be best, but how many "Zen masters of addiction" could we trust to practice this? So, in reality, some kind of model is required, a framework for practitioners to use. I once made a pro and con list for the disease concept model, and it turned out, to my surprise, to be mostly pros. I'd set out to slate it at the time and show how dumb it was. Any model would need to explain why people lapse/relapse so often, and quite often when things seem good in their lives. My cat spent some time in 12-step recovery, and although I do have some issues with it and am currently doing my own thing, I think it can be really helpful to some. You don't have to be big on the whole God thing either. There's plenty of info on here about this.

I also think RR is only partially right about what he says about rehab. Certainly the first time is likely to be the most significant, but it's probably more a question of attitude, and engagement with what's on offer. My cat had a very positive experience the one time he went through rehab. That is not to say it was close to optimal, but it was a damn sight better than nothing.

You may or may not be able to make it on your own. My cat used here as "psychotherapy" to go through his w.d.s but then did do a few aftercare one-to-ones, a few relapse prevention groups, and got a good few massages. Writing my journal on here, "Screaming in the night air..." it's called, did really help. The other things were more something to do. Now, I'm not doing anything specifically recovery oriented, but am doing a lot of more general things: zen meditation, yoga, tai chi, and so on, which I enjoy. I also pootle about on here a bit trying to help where I can.

Life is much better off than on. It's six months today, so well done me! It can be done, but it does require a certain persistance and effort.

Dickon

[chillinwill]

Congrats Dickon on 6 months. That is a huge accomplishment and you are clearly on your merry way. Dickon is right about the attitude when going into rehab as well. If one isn't expecting much from it and doesn't put in much effort, they will more than likely not get much out of it and still be using. They have to WANT to change before change will happen. Rehab just doesn't cure people because one goes to it.

[Ilsa]

congratulations, D!

there is life after any addiction, but it does take time to feel again and effort to find (or re-find) things about which one is passionate...often use begins out of boredom and therefore a fundamental lack of something to do that makes one feel productive, induces pleasure, etc. it often stems from depression, a place where everything is so dark and empty that ANYTHING that makes one feel good will work.

there are myriad other scenarios as well, but these are the two that swim has the most experience with and she's learning how to live again, not just subsist, or get by and she thinks this is the pivotal aspect of attitude. there's a vast difference between getting up and doing what one HAS to do every day and getting up adn doing what one has to and then what one WANTS to do. but there has to be a want to do something, anything (other than heroin, obviously). what is that thing or things that swiy wants to do; things that one can't do or enjoy without opiates?