Experiences - Theory on CWE

[HabitualCriminal]

Ok, swim has done this CWE thing many times over, and has come to a theory which he would like someone with some experience / chemical background to comment on.

Following the standard instructions of crushing pills, mixing in warm water, chilling then filtering. All of which seems to take an age.
Swim has tried this with very little success and had come to the conclusion that codeine prob wasnt for him.
First time swim used 8 x 8mg/500mg para tablets. No effect.
Next time swim tried the same with 15 of the same pills, still very little effect. He has since done 25 and then the last time used 40 tablets in around 150ml of water. Thats 320mg codeine which according to most could knock out a small donkey.
Swims thinking is that as much as maybe 50% of the yeild could be being lost due to using so little water and the cold solution not filtering well.

Then swim tried one of the sugestions made already on this site of putting the pills into warm water, (tap warmth not really hot) and they dissolve themselves within minuites saving all the crushing hassle. Once the pills are dissolved and you are left with a solution just filter straight away which allows fast filteration and gives a clear solution.

Bear with me because I know this has been covered ha.

This is when swim began to wonder what difference the water temp really made with regards to the paracetamol. Using the filter which had gathered all the paracetamol from the extraction, swim got a whole pint of cold water and mixed in a tiny amount (less than an eigth of a teaspoon) of the paracetamol to see if it would dissolve. When the paracetamol was added and given a good stir, you can clearly still see particles and cloudyness within the whole pint. swim tried the exact same with a pint of really warm water, almost boiling and you can still see the cloudyness and particles.

So my theory is, if a tiny amount of paracetamol will not dissolve in a pint of water regardless of temperature, surely the filtered solution of 150ml as long as its clear can only contain a minimal amount of paracetamol if any at all.

Now onto the interesting idea of swims, (shoot him down in flames if he's an idiot as hes not tried this yet) surely if swim uses more water at the outset, say 500ml, you will increase the yield of the codeine extracted from the pills as no paracetamol is really being disolved anyway

Anyway earlier on when swim did the CWE using hot water without chilling, the solution was clear, swim used a pack of 32 pills 8/500 and had the best effect he's had from CWE yet. He had a nice mild calm buzz for around an hour then the effects tapered off.

Swim is considering uping the water to say 250ml's and trying maybe 50 pills. This wont be till at least the weekend tho and swim is very aware of any damage paracetamol can do so he really is interested in anyones thoughts.

HabitualCriminal added 1270 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Ok, swim tried this again today.

40 x 8mg Codeine/500 Paracetamol dissolved into 200ml of lukewarm water. Filtered through a coffee filter and drank imediately without any cooling etc. The filtering process was quicker and a good calm buzz was felt.

However it still doesn't feel like swims getting a dose of 320mg of codeine. Im thinking my original guess of a 50 to 60% yeild is prob more accurate. Swim has no history of opiates or pain meds but would love to feel the stronger effects of Oxycodone or Hydrocodone but has no way of access so swim will stick to the codiene for now.

Swim thinks he'll lay off the CWE for a few days then give 50 pills a go. with maybe 250ml of water.

[Charged]

swiy could always do the cwe with heaps of excess water then convert it to a free base by adding NaHCO3 possibly,

Charged added 5 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

and refiltering

[HabitualCriminal]

swims never thought about trying that, think swim will have a look into whats involved with doing this.

[demented]

What are the benefits of freebase codeine exactly?
I'm sorry but chemistry is a distinct weakness of SWIM's.. when he hears the word freebase, he immediately thinks 'smokable'..
And i'm completely positive that you're not thinking of smoking codeine. That'd be, quite simply, ridiculous.

[miggeth]

Maybe swiy has low activity of the enzyme that converts codeine into morphine. Apparently a signifcant percentage of the population do, and no matter how much codeine they take, it'll have little effect.

These people are usually given morphine or another equivalent for pain relief as codeine cannot help them.

[scruffyloather]

Not sure about what you're saying.

But SWIM has tried dissolving just plain paracetamol and ibuprofin in warm and cold water just to investigate the solubility. SWIM found that it is virtually indissolvable even in copious amounts of water and so he stopped worrying too much about it. Now he uses excess water in CWE to ensure getting all the codeine and not losing yield in the pill mass and filter. He doesnt bother with the Cold much even, he just used tap temp water straight up, disolves then filters.

[darkglobe]

All you SWIY's need to cool the solution because Paracetamol will precipitate out of the solution as the temperature decreases. Solubility of Para is temperature-dependent.

[anonuser30500]

As stated, cooling the solution IS important as we know the 'precise' amounts that could dissolve in a certain amount of water at a certain temperature.

Wikipedia states 0.1-0.5 g/100 mL. That was at a temp of 22 (taken off another thread here) Almost freezing you will lower the nasties to the point were its pretty much pure.

In theory swim could use 5ml water per tablet up to 100 or even 200, and would be able to divide the codeine content per ml. If swiy just used the max figure of codeine as a marker, swiy would be safe.

Using 500ml of water, and just 40 tablets, would be unwise as in theory you could have 2.5 gram of paracetamol. Swim would HATE to swig down 500ml of that brew - it has to be treated like whiskey (worse really) and most swiys do not want to drink 500ml of something so harsh.

Swim pondered this CWE for a while but if you read all the main threads you will see the rules of engagement. Swiys here know what they are talking about.

PS - a note for pet owners.

Parecetamol is very poisonous to cats and snakes, perhaps other creatures also.

Do take care messing about with CWE, a tiny grain of paracetamol in the pets dish or on their hair and you might have to rush the cat to the vets asap.

[miggeth]

Originally Posted by scruffyloather

Not sure about what you're saying.

But SWIM has tried dissolving just plain paracetamol and ibuprofin in warm and cold water just to investigate the solubility. SWIM found that it is virtually indissolvable even in copious amounts of water and so he stopped worrying too much about it. Now he uses excess water in CWE to ensure getting all the codeine and not losing yield in the pill mass and filter. He doesnt bother with the Cold much even, he just used tap temp water straight up, disolves then filters.

If swiy has low enzyme activity, it won't matter how much is taken, it all depends how much is converted to morphine by an enzyme in the liver. Some people lack this enzyme entirely, in which case codeine would be almost completely ineffective.

miggeth added 1315 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

Right swim didn't read the whole post, sorry. He's still uncertain how you can tell swiy is not getting the full effect of 320 mg if siwy's never had any experience with opiates before.

Swim repeats the filtration process three times, seems to get about 60%, then 80%, then 90+%. This doesn't really take too long if swiy uses cotton filter to remove most of the paracetamol quickly, then filter solution again through coffee filter to ensure complete removal. While filtering again, scrape the cotton filter and repeat the whole process two more times. Can be done in 45 minutes using a fridge freezer, and boiling pan of water.

[malsat]

Originally Posted by HabitualCriminal

Ok, swim has done this CWE thing many times over, and has come to a theory which he would like someone with some experience / chemical background to comment on.

Following the standard instructions of crushing pills, mixing in warm water, chilling then filtering. All of which seems to take an age.
Swim has tried this with very little success and had come to the conclusion that codeine prob wasnt for him.
First time swim used 8 x 8mg/500mg para tablets. No effect.
Next time swim tried the same with 15 of the same pills, still very little effect. He has since done 25 and then the last time used 40 tablets in around 150ml of water. Thats 320mg codeine which according to most could knock out a small donkey.
Swims thinking is that as much as maybe 50% of the yeild could be being lost due to using so little water and the cold solution not filtering well.

Then swim tried one of the sugestions made already on this site of putting the pills into warm water, (tap warmth not really hot) and they dissolve themselves within minuites saving all the crushing hassle. Once the pills are dissolved and you are left with a solution just filter straight away which allows fast filteration and gives a clear solution.

Bear with me because I know this has been covered ha.

This is when swim began to wonder what difference the water temp really made with regards to the paracetamol. Using the filter which had gathered all the paracetamol from the extraction, swim got a whole pint of cold water and mixed in a tiny amount (less than an eigth of a teaspoon) of the paracetamol to see if it would dissolve. When the paracetamol was added and given a good stir, you can clearly still see particles and cloudyness within the whole pint. swim tried the exact same with a pint of really warm water, almost boiling and you can still see the cloudyness and particles.

So my theory is, if a tiny amount of paracetamol will not dissolve in a pint of water regardless of temperature, surely the filtered solution of 150ml as long as its clear can only contain a minimal amount of paracetamol if any at all.

Now onto the interesting idea of swims, (shoot him down in flames if he's an idiot as hes not tried this yet) surely if swim uses more water at the outset, say 500ml, you will increase the yield of the codeine extracted from the pills as no paracetamol is really being disolved anyway

Anyway earlier on when swim did the CWE using hot water without chilling, the solution was clear, swim used a pack of 32 pills 8/500 and had the best effect he's had from CWE yet. He had a nice mild calm buzz for around an hour then the effects tapered off.

Swim is considering uping the water to say 250ml's and trying maybe 50 pills. This wont be till at least the weekend tho and swim is very aware of any damage paracetamol can do so he really is interested in anyones thoughts.

HabitualCriminal added 1270 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Ok, swim tried this again today.

40 x 8mg Codeine/500 Paracetamol dissolved into 200ml of lukewarm water. Filtered through a coffee filter and drank imediately without any cooling etc. The filtering process was quicker and a good calm buzz was felt.

However it still doesn't feel like swims getting a dose of 320mg of codeine. Im thinking my original guess of a 50 to 60% yeild is prob more accurate. Swim has no history of opiates or pain meds but would love to feel the stronger effects of Oxycodone or Hydrocodone but has no way of access so swim will stick to the codiene for now.

Swim thinks he'll lay off the CWE for a few days then give 50 pills a go. with maybe 250ml of water.

If SWIY just took a teaspoon of material from the filter, it would have included pill binders/fillers that were insoluble to begin with - then when that was added to a pint of water the insoluble fillers would have been visible in the water, so what was observed wasn't necessarily paracetamol. I'm feeling skeptical about your hypothesis.

Don't start using extra water people, we use a limited amount for a good reason.

It sounds to me like you have low 2D6 activity, which means codeine just isn't for you. You're better off just leaving it rather than killing yourself with APAP while trying to get high.

[oxyhydro]

You need to do it right to get all the codeine.

1. crush the pills

2.dissolve the powder in the hottest water you can get from your sink

3. let solution cool to room temp.

4. put solution in refrigerator for 15 minutes.

5. put solution into freezer until the liquid feels cold.

6. filter the solution into glass. (use multiple filters and multiple glasses to speed up the process.

7. after all that's left in the filter is wet gunky powder, place each filter and gunk into a second filter and gently squeeze the remaining liquid out.

8. combine all the filtered liquids into one glass and drink it up real fast.

This process takes a while but its worth it, when SWIM used codeine, he would pick a day and spend all day doing cwe's ans storing the product for future use.

[miggeth]

Doing it like that won't get swiy all the codeine. Temperatures above 30 degrees C destroy it.

[Sushi]

^^^
Is it true? From what I read I got an impression that it's hot/boiling water that is supposed to destroy codeine?

Anyway, Alf is apparently afflicted by this "insensitivity-to-codeine" syndrome too and he's still looking for a theory explaining it.

For a time he assumed that he can be a poor metaboliser indeed but it finally occurred to him that both codeine and dextromethorphan are metabolised by CYP2D6. Hence, if he really was 2D6 deficient, ingesting even relatively small doses of DXM (like 100-150mg) should lead to very unpleasant, overpowering experiences. It's not the case - he dosed up to 600mg of DXM without a problem. So he can't belong to this 6-10% of white population that have little or no CYP2D6 function.

Of course, it is possible that he is simply screwing up CWE process. But he read carefully and thoroughly anything he could, watched a video presenting CWE and it doesn't seem to be the case either. His only doubts are related to water's temperature. Will using cold water from the very beginning (to dissolve crushed pills) make much difference? As far as Alf understands it, warm water just speeds up dissolving and it's not necessary to perform CWE successfully. Anyway, he tried it both ways (dissolving in cold and warm water) and the results were equally average.

He did codeine 4 times in last two months in doses from 165mg to 360mg. Barely felt anything. He tried potentiating it with DXM, cannabis, alcohol, antacids and Datura stramonium seeds, all this with not much result.

Now he's pondering on last final attempt at getting an opiate high through codeine and is looking for advice. For a 65kg/143lbs creature the "ceiling dose" is about 450mg of codeine. Apparently it is also at the threshold of possible overdosing. What are swiy views and experiences? Will it be very irresponsible to CWE 30 x 15/500 pills and administer the yield to Alf?

[malsat]

^^ Tried any other opies? Use of the stronger ones - even without developing a tolerance to 'em - IMO can make codeine seem completely ineffective. SWIM found abstinence from opies for a while brought codeine's effect right back.

[Sushi]

Well, I heard stories how injecting opiates makes future ingestions by other routes less satisfying/effective. It was mentioned by heroin users persuading opiates newbie not to start with mainlining most potent of them.
Yes, Alf started with mainlining 1 ampoule of morphine, back in 1991. (Not very wise as he was seriously drunk). Nevertheless it resulted in major euphoria and one of his best experiences ever.
Soon after he drank some morphine solution. Nice but nothing outstanding.
About 2001 he smoked brown heroin 2 or 3 times. Better, but (fortunately) nothing outstanding.
Few years later he injected 2 ampoules of morphine in quick succession. Major disappointment, no pleasant effects at all.

Recently he read about CWE and wished to put codeine to test. Swiy know the results as Alf urges me to come to Codeine forum from time to time and bitch on his behalf

EDIT:
Just recalled that a few years ago he was prescribed Thiocodin pills (10 x 15mg codeine + 300mg sulfoguaiacolum), and, well, ate most of them at once As far as I recall he felt some mild effects, a little high, a bit of itching. By the way, Thiocodin is OTC.

With 165mg of CWE codeine he felt nothing, although he was very tired and in need of sleep then, could this interfere with getting proper high?
His highest dose, 360mg CWE, was considerably more intense experience, but it felt too short and "elusive", so to say.
What about CWE of 450mg then? Is it likely to do him any good or will it rather give him seizures and respiratory depression?

[frankz81]

as earlier a certain population are allergic to morphine, hence wont get any effect from codeine metabolising into it, and no realeffect from codeine.
if i have around 150mgs for pain releif, thats my limit as it doesnt do much anyways, and much more than that and the stuff that does metabolise into morphine and the codeine can make u go insane. allergies dont just mean this tho, its a receptor deficiency,i think its called cyp24d or something like that, and as other drugs inc heroin can metoblisie thru different routes, u dont get the morphine allergic reactions

hope i could help, this is all from my experience so its real info, u may have a similar problem, its not uncommen, my dad and sister are allergic also as its also spread genetically.

frankz81 added 2 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

oh, i forgot to add that on occassions, swim has done cwe's or just downed a few hundred mgs of codeine and got a real relaxed feeling, similar to havin a good effect from bupe which i think has a similar but way more potent high

frankz81 added 0 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

oh, i forgot to add that on occassions, swim has done cwe's or just downed a few hundred mgs of codeine and got a real relaxed feeling, similar to havin a good effect from bupe which i think has a similar but way more potent high

[skips]

Have you done this on an empty stomach? Swim believes this makes a huge difference. Heres 2 of his experiences, bearing in mind swim is basically opiate niave

24 N+ CWE'd, 2 supersized double quarter pounder maccas meals consumed 30 mins before dosing, very slight buzz hardly noticeable, lasts for nearly 6 hours though.

1 week later 12 N+ CWE'd, no food consumed in nearly 12 hours before dosing. Swim was completely fucked up, and spent the next 3 hours drifting in and out of conciousness