Effects - Under what circumstances do benzo tolerance's occur?

[Herbal Healer 019]

So Some1 Who Approached Me informed me that he had come into contact with a large amount various benzodiazapines including: Diazapam (Valium/Apaurin/Bosaurin), Clonazepam (Klonopin/Rivotril) , Lorazepam (Ativan, Lorsilan, Loram), & Temazepam (Restoril).

At 1st SWAM began using his usual weekand dose (abstaining throughout the week) of 10 gradually leading to 20-30mg Diazepam or 4-6mg Lorazepam or 45-60mg Temazepam, or 2-3mg Clonazepam & found that these doses got him good. Recently after using benzos 1-2x a weekend for a good 3 weeks it seems that more is needed to produce the same euphoric experience as was once enjoyed or SWAM may be realizing that he is seeking more euphoria. SWAM now needs to take around 30mg Diazapem, 2mg Lorazepam, 2mg Clonazepam, 90-120mg Phenobarbital (barbiturate), and or 50-100mg Butalbital (barbituate) in addition to ussually 1 beer to feel a desired level of euphoria. What SWAM really thinks is weird is how he is able to think, coherently talk, drive almost as if completely sober, and walk without staggering like a drunken hobo.

Is it possible that SWAM's consistant benzo use of 1-2x/weekend for close to a month has created a tolerance?

Thanks 4 any help; peace

[humdroid]

Benzos are habit forming, and have physical withdrawal symptoms.

Y is just at the right side of hell, of one of his benzobreaks, diazepam.

Some of those others you mention have a shorter half life, diaz has a half life of 100hrs at most.

Y knows precious little about benzos and tolerance in general though, but finds valium (diazepam) only works for 2-3 days, for him before tolerance kicks in. Y would take 5-15mg in a day.

That's all Y knows 'fraid, but there is loads on this site for reading.
Have you done a search, as well?

[Herbal Healer 019]

yes but no searches that provided results that would pertain to this personal set of circumstances (using only on the weekends & abstaining throughout the week & whether or not that can, in the long term, create some sort of tolerance)

[Gradient]

Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019

So Some1 Who Approached Me informed me that he had come into contact with a large amount various benzodiazapines including: Diazapam (Valium/Apaurin/Bosaurin), Clonazepam (Klonopin/Rivotril) , Lorazepam (Ativan, Lorsilan, Loram), & Temazepam (Restoril).

At 1st SWAM began using his usual weekand dose (abstaining throughout the week) of 10 gradually leading to 20-30mg Diazepam or 4-6mg Lorazepam or 45-60mg Temazepam, or 2-3mg Clonazepam & found that these doses got him good. Recently after using benzos 1-2x a weekend for a good 3 weeks it seems that more is needed to produce the same euphoric experience as was once enjoyed or SWAM may be realizing that he is seeking more euphoria. SWAM now needs to take around 30mg Diazapem, 2mg Lorazepam, 2mg Clonazepam, 90-120mg Phenobarbital (barbiturate), and or 50-100mg Butalbital (barbituate) in addition to ussually 1 beer to feel a desired level of euphoria. What SWAM really thinks is weird is how he is able to think, coherently talk, drive almost as if completely sober, and walk without staggering like a drunken hobo.

Is it possible that SWAM's consistant benzo use of 1-2x/weekend for close to a month has created a tolerance?

Thanks 4 any help; peace

Herbal Healer 019,

Yes, it's absolutely likely that a slight receptor tolerance has been observed from a month of recreational (and increasing in size) dosing. Here are some things to consider regarding benzodiazepine (and barbiturate) tolerance:

While it is indeed true that benzodiazepines (and barbiturates) operate via the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA, the compounds do not behave as most typical GABA agonists. They bind to a site near receptors (allosteric) and enhance elicited GABA currents. This is different from other agonists such as psychedelics or psychomotor stimulants that have a more direct relationship with affected neurotransmitters - when these compounds bind, more GABA neurotransmitter is released. Conversely, when benzodiazepines bind, currents that are elicited are enhanced - in other words, benzodiazepines alone will not increase the levels of GABA without a stimulus to neurons allowing the release of GABA neurotransmitters.

This translates to two relevant points. When benzodiazepines are used as suggested - clinically - there is a massive therapeutic index compared to similar compounds that present more dangerous side-effects. These compounds are quite effective at inhibiting intolerable levels of anxiety, or similar states of mind. However, when benzodiazepines are used for recreation, a different dynamic is at play. Your statement regarding the potential for one to be seeking higher levels of euphoria is likely quite accurate. One's initial recreational attraction to benzodiazepines is due primarily to the anxiolytic effects and the intoxication associated with higher doses. Due to the unique action of benzodiazepines at the GABAa receptors, this can easily generate just a behavior you described - higher doses are required to achieve the initially appreciated levels of intoxication and relief of anxiety from unchanging levels of stimuli. Since the stimulus-quality of the environment isn't changing rapidly, and benzodiazepines cannot elicit GABA current alone, the only thing that one can change to elevate levels of subjective pleasure is the dose of benzodiazepine, thereby ensuring that any stimulus eliciting any GABA current will be enhanced to pleasurable levels. It becomes easy to see how this feedback loop can translate to the development of a subjective tolerance.

I know that was a pretty chubby suggestion. In short, benzodiazepines lend themselves especially well to treating anxiety and depression at suggested (and often lower) doses. However, when used recreationally, care must be taken to not increase doses to levels that one isn't able to taper down from, given the available supply.

Also, and I'm sure you're well aware of this, please take care when combining different kinds of GABA agonists. This results in a receptor-potentiation, which will enhance the magnitude to which GABA will be enhanced exponentially. Alcohol and benzodiazepines/barbiturates is a pretty infamous combination that has generated numerous tragic stories. Always, especially in this case, observe moderation.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very logical and understandable way of informing one about how benzodiazapines work and tolerance to them develops in gr...
	Great explanation of an interesting neurological phenomenon (allosteric v. direct binding) in an elegantly communicated ...

[Herbal Healer 019]

Thanks for the advice/info I found it very useful & will pass the aquired knowledge on2 Some1 Who Aint Me. Reading the origional post, SWAM realized just how intoxicated he really was, and although he was able to think & convey sober-esque motor skills & coordination, he actually only vaguely remembers writing the origional post.

This may explain why the dose in which SWAM took of Grapefruit juice (inhibitor/potentiator), numberous barbiturates, and numerous benzodiazapines took 2 days to come down from.

Although it seems to take more drugs (in this case benzos/barbs) to aquire the desired level of euphoria, it doesnt seem to have effected their anxiolytic qualities at even very low doses which is great in certain situations where one needs to remain sober but anxiety free.

Also does SWIGradient know if taking something else that effects the GABA receptors, such as: phenibut, valerian (i think), or chamomile (preferably/ most available), have any effect on lowering the amount of benzodiazapines or barbiturates required to acheive the desired level of euphoria without having to take an excessive dose of either drug?