Other - legal status of BZP in Ireland.

[readeadamie]

So the BZP ban is supposed to come into effect tomorrow in Ireland (31st March 09). Anyone have any more info? Does the ban cover all piperazines? or just BZP? The guys in the headstores say it's on it's way but there has been no recent media attention. Perhaps this is because when they ran news stories on the banning of magic mushrooms everybody ran out and stockpiled them. Even people who hadn't ever tried them rushed out to buy them.

[HAIRY-HOLE]

this is the first swim has heard of this! more info would be highly appreciated. altough swim aint the biggest fan of BZP it would be a shame to see them banned as some people he knows get great enjoyment out of them.

[readeadamie]

Last March the EU requested that all member states ban BZP by the end of the year. I'm surprised they've left it so long already. I don't think we have to ban it, but it wouldn't look good in front of "the EU".

[HAIRY-HOLE]

well today is the 31st, does anyone know if they are definitely banned??

[nibble]

Yes it is, I just saw on the late news that it is indeed banned as of today.. Not that SWIM liked it in any way but he never likes to see the growth of prohibition.

[Alfa]

OK, so in the end Ireland does implement EU drug laws.

[HAIRY-HOLE]

[top]Harney announces ban on stimulant BZP:

31/03/2009 - 17:27:22
The stimulant drug BZP which is promoted as a legal alternative to ecstasy and amphetamines was banned today by the Government.

The man-made chemical pills – sometimes wrongly referred to as Herbal E – are widely available in so-called head shops, which specialise in drug paraphernalia.

Ireland follows the lead of several other EU countries where BZP has already been declared a controlled drug, although it remains legal throughout Britain.

Health Minister Mary Harney said the drug had now been brought under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1977.

“This will now make the possession of BZP illegal and make sure that BZP is no longer available for sale in head shops around the country, which has been an issue of concern to my department and the wider public,” she said.

Ms Harney’s department acted after a recommendation from the EU last March that the psychoactive substance come under control measures and criminal provisions.

EU concerns followed a European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction report that found the use of BZP can lead to various medical problems.

While the long-term effects remain unknown, it has been associated with vomiting, anxiety, insomnia, mood swings and seizures.

The mood-affecting drug, also known as party pills, Legal X, XTC and piperazine, was originally developed in a UK laboratory in 1944 as a worming treatment for cattle.

It was never widely used in the agricultural sector because it caused some animals to have fits.

Jim Bellamy, co-owner of the Nirvana chain of head shops which has outlets in Ireland, UK, New Zealand and Australia, said the move would turn people to other illegal drugs.

“My only concern is the stupidity of the authorities, because now people who can’t get BZP will turn back to illegal drugs and they will die. There’s no question about it,” he said.

Although the ban came as no surprise to Mr Bellamy, he hit out at the lack of any advance notice, which he said had left head shop-owners confused about the drug’s legal status.

“I’m waiting to verify what the position is and if it is illegal then of course I will remove everything from my premises and won’t sell it anymore,” he said.

“But I thought it would be courtesy for the authorities to let us know.”

A Health Department spokesman said the law will be enforced in the normal way, and it was likely that gardaí will notify traders that they have to remove the products from sale.

(taken from breakingnews.ie)

[readeadamie]

Yep it's been confirmed, it was on RTE News. A ban has been implemented. F*ck you Mary Harney!!! This ban covers sales and possesion. The magic mushroom ban only covered sales and therefore it's still legal to posess fresh magic mushrooms. I'm going to all the headstores tomorrow for free party pills.

[podge]

Originally Posted by readeadamie

This ban covers sales and possesion. The magic mushroom ban only covered sales and therefore it's still legal to posess fresh magic mushrooms.

Swim doesnt think fresh mushrooms are legal to posses anymore, swim thinks the gardai would certainly take action if they found someone in posession of them. Obviously they cant ban or at least enforce a ban on mushrooms growing naturally so there is some sort of loop hole in relation to posession, but swim doesnt think it would extend far beyond the field they were picked in.


It is unfortunate the lawmakers went through with this, i bet grainne kenny is smug as can be with the news. Interestingly a friend of swims was very recently (within the last 3 weeks) given pure BZP to work with in the lab in his final year of bio-chemisrty. I wonder if the universities have been notified about this recent change in the law - swim thinks it doubtful if the head-shops werent even notified.

Lets hope this is last thing to go from the head shops - not that there are many "decent" choices anyway.

[readeadamie]

SWIM was found in possesion of magic mushrooms last November. He was arrested and brought back to the station for a full drug search. Nothing was found and he was soon on his way home. (No charges pressed) They only banned the sale of fresh mushrooms. This is from an old article from the independent:
"As a result of those meetings and the Hodkinson's meeting with the Tanaiste in December, last Tuesday's announcement of an amendment to the 1977 Misuse of Drugs Act closed the loophole. It is now illegal to sell these mushrooms in any form.
In a statement, Mary Harney said: "In December I met with the family of a young man who died after having consumed psychoactive mushrooms. At that time it had become clear that the sale of magic mushrooms was increasingly commonplace, and I directed that legislation be prepared to clarify the law to ensure that the trade in these drugs could not continue."
However, it has emerged that if caught in procession of the drugs, little or nothing can be done." Obviously there's a spelling error, it should say posession not procession. I'm interested in finding out if the new BZP ban covers possession. Most of the countries that have banned Spice and their synthetic ingredients have only banned sales and not simple possession. The headstores Were informed that the BZP ban was coming at the end of February. That's why most shops have been having a sale on BZP products for the past month. I hate headstores now! All they do is get things banned!

readeadamie added 30 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

When does the ban come into effect? Imediately? The magic mushroom ban did not take effect until several months after it was announced. Sadly the headstores missed this and did not take advantage of the last few months of being able to sell them legally.

[Alfa]

Ehm. Do you realize that you likely would never had BZP or party pills without headstores?

[readeadamie]

...And I would have been better off. They caused me to lose a lot of weight. If SWIY wants to get legal drugs SWIY should do his research and then buy them online where they are readily available. This keeps them out of reach of kids (I first tried BZP at 15 when I didn't know any better) and out of the eyes of the media. Nobody (in my opinion) should be able to buy something like BZP without knowing what it is and what it does. They're already selling new "ketone" based party pills containing Methylone, Mephedrone and Butylone. These will cause harm to poorly informed useres and will eventually be banned. If it weren't for the headstores drugs like this would remain legal a lot longer. My main reason for hating the headstores is that they never list all the ingredients on the packaging (and often list false ones). We had a nice mushroom loophole before the headstores insured it was closed. It sickens me the way they hand out free samples to kids.

[Abrad]

When does the ban come into effect? Imediately? The magic mushroom ban did not take effect until several months after it was announced.

The mushroom ban came into effect the very day it was announced.

[readeadamie]

I'm not 100% on this but i though the ban was announced in December (maybe earlier) 2005 but wasn't signed into law until 31st of January 2006. The latter I am definite of.

[Abrad]

Relevant thread

Although the ban was expected, the speed with which it came into effect took many by surprise. Headshops were only given a few hours notice to clear stock.

[akack2]

Originally Posted by readeadamie

...And I would have been better off. They caused me to lose a lot of weight. If SWIY wants to get legal drugs SWIY should do his research and then buy them online where they are readily available. This keeps them out of reach of kids (I first tried BZP at 15 when I didn't know any better) and out of the eyes of the media. Nobody (in my opinion) should be able to buy something like BZP without knowing what it is and what it does. They're already selling new "ketone" based party pills containing Methylone, Mephedrone and Butylone. These will cause harm to poorly informed useres and will eventually be banned. If it weren't for the headstores drugs like this would remain legal a lot longer. My main reason for hating the headstores is that they never list all the ingredients on the packaging (and often list false ones). We had a nice mushroom loophole before the headstores insured it was closed. It sickens me the way they hand out free samples to kids.

Then dont shop in them and report shops who give drugs to kids and dont take BZP if you are losing weight.What makes you think Butylone,Meph and Methylone are in some party pills?I know many products which do indeed list all the ingredients contained correctly.

Originally Posted by Abrad

The mushroom ban came into effect the very day it was announced.

Correct.

Originally Posted by readeadamie

I'm not 100% on this but i though the ban was announced in December (maybe earlier) 2005 but wasn't signed into law until 31st of January 2006. The latter I am definite of.

Originally Posted by Abrad

Relevant thread

Although the ban was expected, the speed with which it came into effect took many by surprise. Headshops were only given a few hours notice to clear stock.

Correct and the first some head shops heard of the BZP ban was when journalists were sent in to interview them about their thoughts on the ban.This was around 17.00 Tuesday 1 April.

akack2 added 5 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Here was a local shops response:

We are happy to comply with any legislation but it seems ridiculous that the health board did not issue any directive in advance of the ban. Potentially making thousands of innocent Irish citizens indulge in criminal activity and be potentially branded as such, or even arrested for possessing illegal substances that up until 5.30pm yesterday evening they were perfectly entitled by Irish law to buy and possess. From an industry stand point it seems a shame that in such tough financial times more tax paying Irish citizens are about to lose there jobs.

[readeadamie]

Butylone, Mephedrone and Methylone are in London Underground Doves, the new Exotix Super Strong, the new Diablo XXX, Amsterdam High Company Doves, Exotix and DiabloXXX, the new Mind Candy and a couple of others SWIM can't think of at the moment. They're just listed as "ketones" on the ingredient list. Also some of the first "BZP" pills released by london underground were found to contain actual MDMA. The only headstore SWIM knows of that doesn't sell to kids is Funguy, maybe SWIM should report all the rest. Another well known headstore is selling mescaline capsules and dried San Pedro despite being warned not to by the Gardaí. Another well known headstore makes smoke but won't admit it/won't tell us the ingredients. None of the smoking blends list their actives and even list herbal ingredients that are not present at all. The shops definitely knew about the ban in advance. SWIM knew about this a month ago and SWIM asked in ALL the headstores in Dublin to confirm it and they all knew. Why does SWIY think BZP has been on sale for the past month? SWIM doesn't take BZP anymore. That would be retarded. SWIM took it once or twice a week when he was 16. SWIM went from 11.5 stone to 8 in no time. How does SWIY know that the ingredients on the pack are correct? Did SWIY have the products lab tested? Do SWIY know the chemist? SWIM was offered a job in a headstore making smoking blends and partypills but rejected it because he is disgusted by how deceptive the headstores are. SWIM doesn't shop in them. SWIM make his own.

[Abrad]

The only headstore SWIM knows of that doesn't sell to kids is Funguy, maybe SWIM should report all the rest.

No point.
It is completely legal for them to sell to whoever they please. The headshop industry in this country is completely unregulated.

[bananaskin]

Originally Posted by readeadamie

...And I would have been better off. They caused me to lose a lot of weight. If SWIY wants to get legal drugs SWIY should do his research and then buy them online where they are readily available. This keeps them out of reach of kids (I first tried BZP at 15 when I didn't know any better) and out of the eyes of the media. Nobody (in my opinion) should be able to buy something like BZP without knowing what it is and what it does. They're already selling new "ketone" based party pills containing Methylone, Mephedrone and Butylone. These will cause harm to poorly informed useres and will eventually be banned. If it weren't for the headstores drugs like this would remain legal a lot longer. My main reason for hating the headstores is that they never list all the ingredients on the packaging (and often list false ones). We had a nice mushroom loophole before the headstores insured it was closed. It sickens me the way they hand out free samples to kids.

To be fair, ANY substance will affect different people in different ways.
Factors are infinate but include knowledge level, personality, attitude, peer pressure etc etc etc.
If anything that harms anyone at all is to be banned, then how would we eat?
But yes, an honest ingredient list is vital and free samples to minors is never right.
Then again though, in any industry there will always be dishonesty... always has been, always will be.

[Alfa]

It seems that way all around the world, except in New Zealand, where there is a Class IV for substances only suited for adults.

[bananaskin]

This probably helps to keep them more safe, one would think, especially regarding ingredients listings and freer information.
Even though these substances HAVE been legal, having them regulated from the onset obviously has so many benefits.

[readeadamie]

Well the ban is in place but some shops are still selling them. SWIM got 93 free party pills yesterday. SWIM won't take them but maybe pass them on or trade em.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by readeadamie

I hate headstores now!

Originally Posted by readeadamie

My main reason for hating the headstores is that they never list all the ingredients on the packaging (and often list false ones).

Originally Posted by readeadamie

SWIM got 93 free party pills yesterday. SWIM won't take them but maybe pass them on or trade em.

So where exactly does the distinction between yourself and the headshops lie?

[Nature Boy]

SWIM's not too impressed with what used to be his favourite headshop. They've pretty-much given up on the idea of selling psychoactives. Sure, they still sell growing equipment and they're active in the legalisation movement but they don't sell what they used to. Now they're more focussed on lapdancing lessons and tattoos which sucks. I guess they weren't making enough money selling salvia and smoking tips. It's a shame and I hope other headshops don't go down the same route. "Alternative lifestyle" shops are all well and good but proper headshops are needed.

[Alfa]

I can't imagine that they wouldn't make enough money with selling psychoactives. Newer headshops seem to be making so much money, that they are opening one after the other new store. There must be another reason. But that may be a good topic for another thread.