How addicted is SWiM really? Taper down? Need help...

[hh339]

SWiM has been taking 2mg's of alprazolam every morning for maybe 4 months now, until 3 days ago when he took 20mg's of diazepam instead, and since then he has not taken anything. He is feeling bad now, he did not plan to stop using but for certain reasons he must stay clean for about 2 months.

The question however is, how dangerous is this "cold turkey"-quitting considering he has only been taking them in the morning? He is feeling very shaky and is sweating a lot right now, and quite frankly he is kind of scared. He has valium and xanax laying around but he really MUST stay off them.

He went trough benzo withdrawal before and has no problem leaving the pills alone, but he is scared. He stopped cold turkey last time from 10 mg's of clonazepam a day, but he is scared of alprazolam's shorter half-life and the possibilities of seizures and dangerous side-effects from this.

It has been 2 days without any benzo now. Should SWiM keep going like this or should he maybe taper down quickly with diazepam from now on for a few days? It's the only two options SWiM has

What should SWiM do??

[Dickon]

I have seen your post and wanted to reply to it, but felt in a real bind. I want to say "go on with the turkey if you can hack the anxiety", and then I worry that this could be really dangerous advise. I know some people would advise tapering down over months, and this is often the "official" position taken. So, I went off to try and find and answer for you, with no joy.

Speaking entirely speculatively, I would say that 2mg alprazolam once a day for 4 months is unlikely to precipitate a dangerous withdrawal. I know from my cat's experience that the anxiety from an alprazolam withdrawal is particularly nasty (although it could be more to do with cat's general state and age at the times he did this rather than the specific benzo). Cat has had a fit withdrawing from benzos, but much higher doses, and used over a period of 2-3 years.

So, I'd ask you not to take my advise too seriously. It's what I'd do, were I in that situation, but I'm not the worlds most responsible person, and the harm reduction advise would be to do as long a taper as you can.

I have joined a dedicated benzo forum and asked a question about this on your behalf. I don't know if I'll get any sensible answers back, but if I do, I'll let you know. Also it might we worth sending a PM to Jatelka, as she's very knowledgable and a real doctor.

All the best

Dickon

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Speculative or not, an honest helpful post.
	thanks for your information, from another benzo bosher
	Well expressed and accurate.

[hh339]

Thanks Dickon for your reply

SWiM is still off the pills and he has decided to keep it that way, for now. He can handle the anxiety as he is familiar with it. Getting off clonazepam cold turkey was hell, so he is prepared for the worst, but he is thinking that since it has been a few days now and he has been using alprazolam which has such a short half-life..umm..he should be in hell again by now, shouldn't he?

Well he isn't in hell. He's in a shitty spot that sucks ass and he feels really bad, but hell is still miles away. Tapering down with diazepam is also a risk, as he needs to leave clean urine-samples in maybe a month or two, or three, or four...it should be in six weeks but it's extremely dependent on when certain people decide to fit him into their work schedule. It COULD also be in two weeks, there is really no way to tell, so staying completely clean is the best option as long as there is virtually no risk of dying or ending up in the hospital.

Thinking about it, this is so important to SWiM that he would be willing to gamble with a 10% risk of ending up in the hospital. Based on Dickons reply and personal speculations, along with having talked to a couple of friends, he will just keep going without any downtapering whatsoever. If anyone out there is strongly disapproving with this, please let me know as fast as possible, because SWiM is - quoting Dickon - "not the worlds most responsible person" hehe.

Thanks Dickon. Even if your reply was very speculative as you said, it helped SWiM make his decision, for better or worse. LOL!

// hh339

[paperstreet]

I would strongly suggest swiy tapering (if even for only a short time, like a week or 2) given that swiy has weeks or months until swiy have to pee clean. Whatever the situation is that swiy are facing it seems important, but swiy should never play with swiy health (and life). Stopping cold turkey at swiy's dosages probably won't kill swiy just from the withdrawal symptoms, but what happens if swiy have a seizure while swiy are driving and swiy ends up hurting/killing swiyourself or someone else?

Also, depending on the type and quality of the drug test swiyare facing, they may not even test for benzos. I think a lot of the common, cheaper tests only test for 5 basic drugs: weed, alcohol, amphetamines, opiates, and pcp (although I may be COMPLETELY wrong about this, please correct me if this is not accurate. I am also not sure of any potential false positives that alprazolam or diazepam could result in).

In addition, I cannot image alprazolam staying in swiy system very long either. I could not find the exact time period, (i only looked at like 2 wikipedia pages though haha) but it has a pretty short half life. Definitely figure out how long a person could test positive for alprazolam. Diazepam does have metabolites that stick around for a while, but I still can't imagine pissing positive for either of these drugs after a couple of weeks, at most. (but again, look this up to be sure, I could be completely wrong).

Also, consider getting a legitimate prescription for a benzo (if swiy doesn't already), if swiy has a medical reason to take a benzo then I can't imagine a situation that the tester wouldn't allow this... but I don't know what swiy is trying to piss clean for, so swiy will have to judge accordingly.

If swiy could possibly explain the situation a little better, it may help the advice given.

Benzo withdrawal can really mess someones health and mind up for a rediculously long time, even though swiy hasn't died or gone into convulsions yet, are the shakes and other side effects worth the risk?

On the other hand, 2mg a day for 4 months is not a terribly high amount to stop from, swiy may end up perfectly fine in a week, completely back to normal and happy. Personally, I would recommend tapering, if even for a short period (and seeking a doctor's advice as well, just to be on the safe side).

Reputation Comments on this post:

Opinion appreciated!

[hh339]

Dear Paperstreet, let's just say that if SWiM is positive for any benzo on that urine-sample, he will have to leave samples on a DAILY basis for months, and then multiple times a week for YEARS just to get his rent and food-money. On the other hand, should he test negative for all drugs, he would get more money a month and be transferred from financial support to a spot where he would get insurance money for years, no questions asked!

He has a long medical record that supports the condition he is in, it's a mixture of different psychological conditions along with pretty serious back-problems. However, should he test positive, he would automatically be labeled a junkie and a bullshitter trying to play the system to get money. And yes, they do certainly test for benzo's, he has been to this place leaving samples hundreds of times before and let me tell ya, he does not feel like going back to those days!

This may seem a bit odd and hard to understand, but this is just how it works where SWiM lives. He has tried to get a prescription for diazepam for years, only to hear "sorry, we have records showing you taking these medicines illegaly a few years back, can't help you!". They gladly give him stimulants for ADD/ADHD if he would want them to, even though they have records of him taking amphetamines a few years back, but something like diazepam for some reason they refuse to prescribe to him.

He has been smoking cannabis with decent results for years, but he is not in a position to grow MJ anymore, and considering the amounts he is smoking when he uses it, he can't afford it even if he sells hash to afford smoking. He already sells hash dammit, and still has almost no money at the end of the day, he even earns about 1000-1500 dollars a month from playing poker but it still isn't enough combined with financial support!

You see SWiM made a mess or 10 a while back when he was younger and even more reckless, and now he is paying for it every month, and it will be a couple of years before he is debt-free. He also has a family now, and he is the only one bringing in money as fiancee also is unemployed and only get a small amount of money a month. Needless to say I think, SWiM is willing to even gamle with his health to avoid getting "caught" in this drug-test. Should he test negative, he can go on with his life as a dealer/gambler (I realize how this sounds...lol) as well as getting insurance money while eating some benzo's without having to explain himself or worry about random drug-tests. He would be home free! Positive result = back to square one and no drugs/medicines for years...

Hope this explains why SWiM made the decision to just go cold turkey hehe, though he would taper instead if someone should prove to him that the path he is choosing is likely to kill him. Thanks for your input!

//hh339

[paperstreet]

If the situation truly requiues going cold turkey, and swiy is not suffering to much at this point, then swiy has got to do what hes got to do. The dosages of alprazolam that swiy is stopping would probably warrant a tapering period, but honestly it would just be for swiy's comfort and to be on the safe side at this point. Swiy can more than likely get away with this plan without much harm, (but probably a lot of discomfort) and I wish swiy the best of luck in this.

[hh339]

It's been over a week, and today SWiM can say that he is completely free from withdrawal-symptoms. It took about 6 days to feel kinda good, but still with some ups and down and some anxiety present. Yesterday was pretty good, but now he feels that he has recovered at least 99%. Hooray!

[humdroid]